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 Born not Made
Posts: 2930
   
Location: North Dakota | Of course, let me preface that I am waiting to hear back from my vet on what should do for my horse (scoping, bloodwork, etc), but I'm pretty darn sure he has ulcers.
I've never had one with ulcers before, or symptoms of them, and I know there is so much out there and there is so much variance on what works for a horse.
My horse is 7 this year and it is his second year of running barrels. He's doing well; just snuck into the 2D at the last race. No gate issues. But what I have noticed, is that his stools progressively get runny as the day or event goes on. And he has started to become a little cinchy (not bad, but it is out of character for him). Just bought him a brand new saddle that fits like a glove. Chiro just adjusted him about 2 weeks ago; was a little out in the withers so I will have him back out again soon.
He is a very laid back horse in general. But he's figuing out this barrel racing thing and I can tell he gets a little anxious sometimes. He is on pasture 24/7. He gets 1/2 pound oats and 1/2 pound Omolene 200 on the days we ride (most days) along with T.H.E. Muscle mass supplement with immune support. If we are just doing one run at a jackpot (close drive), I don't normally give him any hay because we are not there that long. But if it's a long day/race, then I give him some hay so he doesn't go more than 3-4 hours without having something in his tummy.
**editing to add that I will be taking him off the oats and omolene if he does have ulcers, because I know that's not good for a horse with ulcers ...... so before everyone jumps on that bandwagon.  Never had a horse with suspected ulcers before and have never had a problem before. **
UlcerGard is typically the go-to for treatment, correct?
I know T.H.E. makes two different ulcer products that I could easily add in with his current mix.
And I know there are SO many other supplements and options out there: aloe vera juice, hemp, Cool Gut, etc etc etc.
It's hard to know where to start.
Of course, I'm curious what my vet will say/do but I am also curious how you guys manage your ulcer horses, since this will be a new thing for me. It's mostly his cinchiness and his runny stools that make me positive he has to have ulcers, because nothing else about his life has changed.
Edited by r_beau 2018-08-16 3:05 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1514
Location: Illinois | If vet determines ulcers: First I would probably change your feed, that's a hefty amount of feed and also not good feeds for ulcer prone horses. I'd find something else to feed and also keep the feeding schedule regular, not just the days you ride. There's another thread on here today with some great options for ulcers, I'd read that. Also get yourself a slow feed hay net and take hay everywhere you go, even on short trips. It takes mine 3 hours to eat 2 flakes out of their hay chix net. If you're going on a short day just throw one flake in, it won't hurt to have a little in the belly while you run. I let mine slowly munch until I'm saddling to get on & then half hour after I've walked them out they can go back to it.
As far as treatment goes omeprazole is your best bet, which is what GastroGuard and Ulcerguard are, either one can be used but you need a Rx for the GastroGuard. They are both the same product, just different labels. I can get it compounded by my vet as a paste for a fraction of the cost, maybe ask your vet if they can get something similar. Mine just gets it from the lab they use and is $7 a day for me to treat vs the $30 a day for the other. If you're going to put him on a preventative start it the same time you do the treatment. After the omeprazole buffers their stomach for so long their stomach goes into overdrive and when you take it away the extra acid being produced will just feed new ulcers within days. It's a nasty cycle if you get suck in it because you have to treat again.
I prefer MVP Gastro-Plex because that is what worked for mine and the only one that worked for mine, I spent many years trying different ones out. I generally try to give them all at least 60 days to see before I decide if I like it or move on to the next, some I gave 90 days. You may have to try several to find what works best for you. If you want some info on the Gastro-Plex or to order you're welcome to private message me & I can hep you out, if you want to chose something else to try first that is fine as well. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| Agreed Oats/Omelene are BAD idea.. | |
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 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | My vet charges $300 for scoping (including everything), but treatment for ulcers is $300 (a month of Abgard--generic Omeprazole), so I just usually treat with Abgard when I suspect the horse has it. I love Abgard. I have used it on 2 horses and they have both had noticeable results within 5 days. I treated the first horse for the full 28, and the second horse for 12. The stuff works wonders! My farrier told me about it a year ago. It's good stuff. It's paste, but they also sell granules. Much cheaper than Ulcergard.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-08-16 1:44 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: North Dakota | THE Gastroplus is what I have had good luck with.
2lbs or less of Oats per feeding is fine. Everything in moderation.
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Give him a couple of doses of ulcer guard from tractor supply and see if he improves. It is the same exact ingredients. I scoped one for ulcers he was positive, I did 3 weeks 1/3 a tube a day/ per my vet. A couple of years ago I got one back from the trainer, thought he was acting like ulcers so I just treated him, 2 doses and he was feeling much better, I did the 3 week treatment with him too. None of mine get grain, alfalfa and Renee gold
hope he feels better | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 682
Location: Northwest | MidWest1452 - 2018-08-16 2:23 PM
THE Gastroplus is what I have had good luck with.
2lbs or less of Oats per feeding is fine. Everything in moderation.
THE Gastroplus (I order through wyoming Barrel racer and she’s fantastic). It really, really works. Like, quite quickly. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2930
Location: North Dakota | Personally, I didn't think 1 pound of grain is very much, but I have no problem cutting back or eliminating it completely. Mostly, I give it to him to have something to mix with his T.H.E. supplement and then a little extra for some "pep in his step" for barrels. I could easily give him only 1/4 pound or less to mix with the T.H.E. which I will do in the meantime for now. And I could order some GastroPlus to start giving him.
Consulted with vet and we are going to start with a compounded treatment option she has that is much cheaper than the initial treatment with GastroGuard, for 30 days. And see if he improves. We don't have another race for almost 2 weeks so this will be a great time to treat anyway.
I've read that some people feed alfalfa cubes for extra energy, that is okay for ulcer prone horses. I've never fed them before. I know you need to soak them. How long?
I might also be able to get my hands on a bag of Ultium Gastric to try. But I read the label and there is some sugar in it? (I thought sugar is bad for ulcers? ) 
But I've also eyeballed the Renew Gold to try.... maybe that would be better than the Ultium Gastric?
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Expert
Posts: 1514
Location: Illinois | I said that about the grain bc I'm pretty sure the original post said scoops at first & then you changed it to pounds, or maybe I'm just insane which is also possible. So I was envisioning 3qt scoops, which would be a lot. I still stick by trying to keep it regular though, if you're going to give him some grain do it everyday. If you want something to put the supplements in I would recommend maybe just switching over to alfalfa pellets & then using that as a grain replacement. I usually soak mine as I've dealt with choke, but a lot of people don't. The pellets I get locally are like cement though, so might just be that. I like pellets over cubes, but it's a personal preference & if you soak pellets it takes less time. I generally soak cubes until I can easily break them apart, just depends on the brand. Warm water will make them soft twice as fast as cold water. Then I'd just add renew gold or even just stick with the all forage route | |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| I gave an omeprazole compound from the vet. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2930
Location: North Dakota | JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-08-17 10:01 AM I said that about the grain bc I'm pretty sure the original post said scoops at first & then you changed it to pounds, or maybe I'm just insane which is also possible. So I was envisioning 3qt scoops, which would be a lot. I still stick by trying to keep it regular though, if you're going to give him some grain do it everyday. If you want something to put the supplements in I would recommend maybe just switching over to alfalfa pellets & then using that as a grain replacement. I usually soak mine as I've dealt with choke, but a lot of people don't. The pellets I get locally are like cement though, so might just be that. I like pellets over cubes, but it's a personal preference & if you soak pellets it takes less time. I generally soak cubes until I can easily break them apart, just depends on the brand. Warm water will make them soft twice as fast as cold water. Then I'd just add renew gold or even just stick with the all forage route
No, I didn't change it. I was really confused why you said that was a "hefty" amount of grain, because 1 pound total is not hefty, IMO. But of course, I'm only going to give him barely enough to mix in his T.H.E. going forward from here.
And it is most days, that I would grain him. So not like it's totally random. I board (self care) and sometimes I have my kids with me after work (ages 5 months and 2 years) if my husband is busy and it's just tough to do things with the horses when I have them with me. But I'll have to figure something out b/c he will need the ulcer meds every single day.
About how long do you need to soak pellets vs cubes (that you've experienced?).
Can they be soaked for 24 hours, if I prepared it the day before? Or would they get overly mushy? | |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | r_beau - 2018-08-17 12:03 PM
JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-08-17 10:01 AM I said that about the grain bc I'm pretty sure the original post said scoops at first & then you changed it to pounds, or maybe I'm just insane which is also possible. So I was envisioning 3qt scoops, which would be a lot. I still stick by trying to keep it regular though, if you're going to give him some grain do it everyday. If you want something to put the supplements in I would recommend maybe just switching over to alfalfa pellets & then using that as a grain replacement. I usually soak mine as I've dealt with choke, but a lot of people don't. The pellets I get locally are like cement though, so might just be that. I like pellets over cubes, but it's a personal preference & if you soak pellets it takes less time. I generally soak cubes until I can easily break them apart, just depends on the brand. Warm water will make them soft twice as fast as cold water. Then I'd just add renew gold or even just stick with the all forage route
No, I didn't change it. I was really confused why you said that was a "hefty" amount of grain, because 1 pound total is not hefty, IMO. But of course, I'm only going to give him barely enough to mix in his T.H.E. going forward from here.
And it is most days, that I would grain him. So not like it's totally random. I board (self care) and sometimes I have my kids with me after work (ages 5 months and 2 years) if my husband is busy and it's just tough to do things with the horses when I have them with me. But I'll have to figure something out b/c he will need the ulcer meds every single day.
About how long do you need to soak pellets vs cubes (that you've experienced?).
Can they be soaked for 24 hours, if I prepared it the day before? Or would they get overly mushy?
If you purchase the Standlee pellets they don't have to be soaked. They are small and easily chewed up and digested. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1514
Location: Illinois | r_beau - 2018-08-17 12:03 PM
JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-08-17 10:01 AM I said that about the grain bc I'm pretty sure the original post said scoops at first & then you changed it to pounds, or maybe I'm just insane which is also possible. So I was envisioning 3qt scoops, which would be a lot. I still stick by trying to keep it regular though, if you're going to give him some grain do it everyday. If you want something to put the supplements in I would recommend maybe just switching over to alfalfa pellets & then using that as a grain replacement. I usually soak mine as I've dealt with choke, but a lot of people don't. The pellets I get locally are like cement though, so might just be that. I like pellets over cubes, but it's a personal preference & if you soak pellets it takes less time. I generally soak cubes until I can easily break them apart, just depends on the brand. Warm water will make them soft twice as fast as cold water. Then I'd just add renew gold or even just stick with the all forage route
No, I didn't change it. I was really confused why you said that was a "hefty" amount of grain, because 1 pound total is not hefty, IMO. But of course, I'm only going to give him barely enough to mix in his T.H.E. going forward from here.
And it is most days, that I would grain him. So not like it's totally random. I board (self care) and sometimes I have my kids with me after work (ages 5 months and 2 years) if my husband is busy and it's just tough to do things with the horses when I have them with me. But I'll have to figure something out b/c he will need the ulcer meds every single day.
About how long do you need to soak pellets vs cubes (that you've experienced?).
Can they be soaked for 24 hours, if I prepared it the day before? Or would they get overly mushy?
I tried soaking them for 24 hours once and they started growing fur, so I wouldn't recommend. If you have access to warm water my pellets will soak fine within 10 minutes. But like Is aid mine are as hard as concrete, I can stomp on one and it won't break. If you have a brand that the pellet breaks easy you should be able to soak in less time, even just filling a gallon jug of water & leaving it in the sun somewhere will warm the water enough. I just get mine from our slop sink. Cubes usually take twice as long | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2930
Location: North Dakota | JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-08-17 1:52 PM r_beau - 2018-08-17 12:03 PM JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-08-17 10:01 AM I said that about the grain bc I'm pretty sure the original post said scoops at first & then you changed it to pounds, or maybe I'm just insane which is also possible. So I was envisioning 3qt scoops, which would be a lot. I still stick by trying to keep it regular though, if you're going to give him some grain do it everyday. If you want something to put the supplements in I would recommend maybe just switching over to alfalfa pellets & then using that as a grain replacement. I usually soak mine as I've dealt with choke, but a lot of people don't. The pellets I get locally are like cement though, so might just be that. I like pellets over cubes, but it's a personal preference & if you soak pellets it takes less time. I generally soak cubes until I can easily break them apart, just depends on the brand. Warm water will make them soft twice as fast as cold water. Then I'd just add renew gold or even just stick with the all forage route No, I didn't change it. I was really confused why you said that was a "hefty" amount of grain, because 1 pound total is not hefty, IMO. But of course, I'm only going to give him barely enough to mix in his T.H.E. going forward from here.
And it is most days, that I would grain him. So not like it's totally random. I board (self care) and sometimes I have my kids with me after work (ages 5 months and 2 years) if my husband is busy and it's just tough to do things with the horses when I have them with me. But I'll have to figure something out b/c he will need the ulcer meds every single day.
About how long do you need to soak pellets vs cubes (that you've experienced?).
Can they be soaked for 24 hours, if I prepared it the day before? Or would they get overly mushy? I tried soaking them for 24 hours once and they started growing fur, so I wouldn't recommend. If you have access to warm water my pellets will soak fine within 10 minutes. But like Is aid mine are as hard as concrete, I can stomp on one and it won't break. If you have a brand that the pellet breaks easy you should be able to soak in less time, even just filling a gallon jug of water & leaving it in the sun somewhere will warm the water enough. I just get mine from our slop sink. Cubes usually take twice as long
Eww. Don't need fur. (See, this is why I ask, now I don't have to make the mistake and grow fur, LOL.)
Hmm, I do not have access to warm water. But I do leave water in 5 gallon buckets in my trailer anyway (so I don't have to walk up to the hose if I need water quick for something) so that's easy enough to leave some out in the sun in a jug. I just ran out on my lunch break and got a bag of Standlee alfalfa pellets so we can give it a whirl!
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | From what I have been reading about the Purina Outlast on that purina outlast thread I think I would be giving that a try if I had a horse that was ulcer prone.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2018-08-17 4:11 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: North Dakota | If I was in your position I would cut the omelene. Stick with the 2lb or less of oats and THE MM and add the gastroplus for a month see and how it goes. Put hay, cubes, or pellets in front of him no matter when you haul somewhere, even if it is just down the road. Even a near by barrel run or just stepping on the trailer can make them nervous and having something to munch on will keep that tummy feeling good. See where you are at in 30 days.
I wouldn't go searching for some magical feed or supplement to prevent at this point. | |
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Location: South Dakota | Ulcergard for healing, 28 days, 1/2 tube a day works fine. www.horsewarehouse.com has about the best prices I have seen...29.90 ea/ have to buy a minimum of 10 tubes. THE Gastroplus works good as well.
Feeding Purina Outlast as a follow up and maintenance, also Forco is good for hindgut maintenance. Feeding about 2 lbs soaked alfalfa pellets daily, 2 cups whole oats, and all the grazing or hay they want.
No more cinchy issues, better attitude, eating so much better, and putting on weight all proof of these products working great! | |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | My mare used to be very ulcery. Poor coat condition and difficult to keep weight on when I was running her. Also almost never finished her feed. I would treat her with omeprazole for 30 days, and I started her on SmartGut Ultra. But she would still randomly have flare ups. Those didn’t stop until I changed her feed from Strategy Healthy Edge to regular soaked beet pulp and alfalfa pellets.
She never gets diarrhea though. Maybe give him BioSponge the day of a race? | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2930
Location: North Dakota | Hmmm, so some of you are saying to KEEP some of the oats and some are saying oats = bad.
Reasoning for each thought process??
Yup, I'll keep a slow hay net in front of him at the trailer. I already have them so that's an easy thing to do.
ridejg - you suggested 2 pounds of the alfalfa pellets. Anyone else have any suggestions on how much they feed their horse? (Again, mine is on pasture 24/7 as far as his environment)
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | Vet here...
Obviously if you are actually dealing with ulcers you will want to treat- best thing out there is Ulcergard 1 tube once daily for 14-28 days depending on severity. That isn’t realistic for a lot of owners due to cost, some compounded omeprazoles work better than others. Get with your veterinarian and see what they recommend.
Second thing, diet. Ultimately you want a diet that is low carb, high fat. I have had great success with Blue Bonnet Intensify Omega Force.... it is designed to be able to feed smaller amounts which helps ulcer prone horses as well. Generally for a 1000 lb horse they will get 3-4 lbs per DAY. Works out to be about 1/2 normal feed scoop twice daily. | |
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