|
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| I realize that the prior discussion talked about stud fees rising and that may play a part in what I'm talking about. I am one of those people that cannot afford a $5,000 prospect (which I realize isn't all to high).
I have noticed here lately it is rare that you find a decently bred young horse for less than $5,000. That being said it looks like you can get a solid local 2D horse for around 10. Is this truly what the market is, or is this just what people are advertising and not what is actually selling? I know that there are a lot of people out there that can afford more than I can, and you get what you pay for but it seems as though everyone has a running bred prospect nowadays and everyone wants at least $5K for them if not 10. I'm not saying they aren't worth it, I'm more asking if they are, and are they selling for that kind of money?
**when I say decently bred, I don't mean own son/daughter. I mean grandson/ daughter. Like has 4 or 5 big name horses on papers.**
I have a few horses like the ones stated above that are bred well, and made right etc. That if I was pricing like what I'm seeing would be $7500 horses but are young horses selling for that much regularly? (not just futurity prospects etc) Facebook stalks me and knows I look at horse sale adds all the time. I look to see what the horse is and what the asking price is and sometimes (more often than not) I am thinking this person is nuts! Maybe they aren't..... maybe I just live under a rock lol | |
| | |
 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | I have never paid what the "going market" is for a horse. It takes me forever to find a new one because of that. I wait until I find one that's just right for me (may need a thing or two re-trained). I will also not ever pay asking price on most anything. I would never pay $5,000 for a prospect either. I wouldnt really even pay $5000 for a started on the pattern horse either. I wait and then jump on a good deal. | |
| | |
 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | We drop 10-15 babies a year and our prices start at $3000 and go up from there and we have a waiting list every year and we are happy that they sell so well. It seems like a lot of money but we are actually grateful to break even each year. You have an incident with just one baby and it can quickly eat up a lot of money. Last year my favorite colt went septic in a joint and we spent a fortune trying to save him and losy him anyways. Probably just should have put him down to begin with but that is not a code I can go by with my horses. My point is this, people that are selling babies for $1000 are either losing their hindend or not taking proper care of them. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2685
| I completely agree with you. Mine that I raised had a stud fee of $1500 and his momma died when he was a few weeks old. I probably have $5K in him at just over a year because of this. Definitely not saying the investment isn’t there. Just wonder if the market is allowing one to get their money back. I do know that if I had to buy this colt off the market, I wouldn’t be able to afford him. I had to make him. Not cheaper but spreads out the cost... | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I don't breed a huge amount of horses, 2-3 a year or so. I do try to breed quality. Mine don't always sell in 2 days but they do sell, and usually for what I want for them or very close to it. Yes, and generally over 5k. I breed what I consider nice midrange prospects. My mares are fairly solid with good proven bottom sides and tend to be daughters, not granddaughters of really nice horses, and I try to buy mares that have some kind of performance or produce record. I like to breed them to pretty nice studs though not always the very best. I can't afford Firewater Flit, Frenchman's Guy or DTF every year. I have one DTF. Most of the studs I breed to are in the $1250-2500 range. Nice studs but not always the tip top. We do tend to make a small profit on an individual mare we bred that year though that often goes to stud fee the next year. If you took our whole program, it's closer to breaking even. I am hoping to help my bottom line a little with my own colt. The babies will be more affordable but I also won't be out stud fees every year. Good pictures and good looking babies help a lot. That's what gets people's attention initially. | |
| | |
  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| The thing that always shocks me is when they are asking $10,000 for a $5,000 prospect and they dont even take the time to brush the mud off the horse. | |
| | |
 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 8:47 AM We drop 10-15 babies a year and our prices start at $3000 and go up from there and we have a waiting list every year and we are happy that they sell so well. It seems like a lot of money but we are actually grateful to break even each year. You have an incident with just one baby and it can quickly eat up a lot of money. Last year my favorite colt went septic in a joint and we spent a fortune trying to save him and losy him anyways. Probably just should have put him down to begin with but that is not a code I can go by with my horses. My point is this, people that are selling babies for $1000 are either losing their hindend or not taking proper care of them.
I spent $7400 at Morven Park this spring on my filly, plus the pharmaceuticals and post-hospital vet visits (call it $8K total). Add that to the stud fee, shipping fees, breeding fees, foaling fees, and I've got over $13K in this filly already. Granted I might actually be able to get that out of her since she is now a rarity (own daughter of Stitch out of my rocket mare), but I don't think she'll be for sale any time soon.
An inexpensive foal (live covering with own stallion) still costs well over $1500 to get on the ground. | |
| | |
Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | lonely va barrelxr - 2018-08-22 10:59 AM Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 8:47 AM We drop 10-15 babies a year and our prices start at $3000 and go up from there and we have a waiting list every year and we are happy that they sell so well. It seems like a lot of money but we are actually grateful to break even each year. You have an incident with just one baby and it can quickly eat up a lot of money. Last year my favorite colt went septic in a joint and we spent a fortune trying to save him and losy him anyways. Probably just should have put him down to begin with but that is not a code I can go by with my horses. My point is this, people that are selling babies for $1000 are either losing their hindend or not taking proper care of them.
I spent $7400 at Morven Park this spring on my filly, plus the pharmaceuticals and post-hospital vet visits (call it $8K total). Add that to the stud fee, shipping fees, breeding fees, foaling fees, and I've got over $13K in this filly already. Granted I might actually be able to get that out of her since she is now a rarity (own daughter of Stitch out of my rocket mare), but I don't think she'll be for sale any time soon.
An inexpensive foal (live covering with own stallion) still costs well over $1500 to get on the ground.
With our own studs---that $1500 figure is what I figure I have in one when it hits the ground also, barring any problems along the way. | |
| | |
Regular
Posts: 93
| The market is all over the place right now. I'm seeing 18yo crippled barrel horses selling for $10k+ and weanlings selling for $6k, meanwhile I've got a started shapey dun 2yo filly for $3k right now and can't even get a bite. OMG she's 1/32 paint, give me a break, shes flipping nice and GENTLE. I'm losing my a** on her. I also had my finished saintly youth suitable 11yo mare for $8k and didn't get any hits on her either. I give up. I refused to take less than she was insured for. | |
| | |
Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | abrad12 - 2018-08-22 11:24 AM The market is all over the place right now. I'm seeing 18yo crippled barrel horses selling for $10k+ and weanlings selling for $6k, meanwhile I've got a started shapey dun 2yo filly for $3k right now and can't even get a bite. OMG she's 1/32 paint, give me a break, shes flipping nice and GENTLE. I'm losing my a** on her. I also had my finished saintly youth suitable 11yo mare for $8k and didn't get any hits on her either. I give up. I refused to take less than she was insured for.
I don't completely get the Paint thing either---few years back I had a daughter of Bully Bullion, 3D mare, but sound and safe. Couldn't give her away---scared me away from the Paint thing. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1514
Location: Illinois | I don't breed, but I bought my 3 year old (Bully Bullion, Marthas Six Moons, Alive N Firen, Check The Charts/Beduino) mare with 60 days on her for $5,000 and I don't think that was bad at all. She sold for $7,500 as a yearling futurity prospect and her price went down once they established she needed more time and wouldn't make it in time and they weren't interested in trying for the next year as that would be too long to hold onto her. If she had been a gelding the price may have lower, but in my mind she was worth $5,000 to me as one to run for awhile and then be able to breed.
I generally prefer geldings, but I've lost the performance use of 2 now from tendon injuries. My 2 year old last year, that was a $500 weanling cost me $1,000 in vet bills the week I brought him home from the worms in his lungs. It took 6 months to get rid of them. His mother hadn't been taken care of and neither had he, he was from a backyard breeder. But he was a grandson of King Fritz and a dunskin so I knew even if he didn't make a barrel horse I could sell him ok in my area because that line has a decent following in my area and who wouldn't want a dunksin, with a 3 foot mane and forelock to his nostrils. Couldn't have asked for a better put together horse and I ended up having to give him away because he cut his superficial and the scar tissue adhered to the deep flexor, making them unable to move independently. He was going to be riding sound, but high risk for performance and he was 2 months into rehab and no one was going to pay money for him at that point unbroke.
I decided to go to mare route this time so that if she were to get hurt and couldn't run she would still have a use in my barn. Her maternal half brother is with Lance Graves right now for futurities and if he does well & the dam gets more hype it may increase marketability of her if I did sell her or her babies in the future. Not saying it will, not saying it won't. But I was over $10,000 into that 2 year old when I gave him away, including feed. So I can fully understand someone wanting $5,000+ for a prospect, they gotta do their best to try to just break even a lot. Breeding is expensive and things happen. There's always going to be prospects for everyone's price rang and sometimes you'll find a real diamond in the rough. A buddy of mine just picked up a son of Rare Bar for $500 because he was 6 and almost totally unbroke, maybe had 30 days on him as a 2 year old, the owners thought he was crazy. He's had him around 3 months now and he's cruising placing in the 3D with huge mistakes and ponies his son around on him. His feet were long and he was skinny, but he's doing well and good health. He has papers, but were never sent in so it would cost them a chunk $ to send them in, but for $1,000 essentially and some trims and feed they've got a son of Rare Bar barely running and hit the 3D with 120 head last week and won a local jackpot this week. Doesn't happen everyday, but those finds are out there.
Now would I pay $30,000 for ASOF prospect, no. DTF if I had money I'd love to own a daughter, for the right one I'd pay $$$$$ if I had it. But that's because I want one to breed, plus maybe run. Everyone is going to have their own opinion of what they're willing to pay for & what they aren't. And sellers generally price for what they think they have, which is fine. You can always offer & it may be accepted & it may not. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | I've got some nice prospects - DFP and Seattle Slew grandsons and grandaughters with good bottom sides - for sale under $5K. I always assume it is harder to get people to look if you price reasonably. Some people assume a horse is better if it is priced higher. Fortunately I am always able to find people smart enough to look for a fair deal - not a steal and not an overpriced horse.
As for what do those colts really bring? Oh, I would SO much like to know that!
| |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1304
| Not to direct away from the thread, but I don't get the paint thing either. I personally love them and if ifs a good horse, who cares.
UNLESS you're breeding or want a prospect with a better, more definitive chance of making it like some very well do, I think some people care a little too much about papers and what big names they can tell everyone their horse is related too anyways..IMO
| |
| | |
 Peecans
| In all reality for what it costs I don't sell my foals for enough, most people don't. 5K is less than I ask and even 5 is not truly enough for many foals.
When you add up stud fees, collection charges, shipping charges, ultrasounds, vet fees, mare care or fuel and time driving her back and forth for weeks plus all the mares upkeep during gestation and foal rasing. Feeding the foal, fitting effort and cost in sale adds.... There's nothing left at the end of the day.
I am not longer even wanting to deal with it all anymore. I have only ever made a good profit on watching stallion auctions for local live cover proven producing quality stallions. And That's what I'll keep doing. Live cover hand breeding or onsite AI, I grew to dread and despise breeding season after a couple really unlucky years and if I hate it ... What's the point. | |
| | |
Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | della - 2018-08-22 12:01 PM In all reality for what it costs I don't sell my foals for enough, most people don't. 5K is less than I ask and even 5 is not truly enough for many foals. When you add up stud fees, collection charges, shipping charges, ultrasounds, vet fees, mare care or fuel and time driving her back and forth for weeks plus all the mares upkeep during gestation and foal rasing. Feeding the foal, fitting effort and cost in sale adds.... There's nothing left at the end of the day. I am not longer even wanting to deal with it all anymore. I have only ever made a good profit on watching stallion auctions for local live cover proven producing quality stallions. And That's what I'll keep doing. Live cover hand breeding or onsite AI, I grew to dread and despise breeding season after a couple really unlucky years and if I hate it ... What's the point.
ABSOLUTELY---ya gotta do it cause you love it, cause it is dang hard to make much money at it. | |
| | |
Regular
Posts: 93
| blccwgl55 - 2018-08-22 11:00 AM
Not to direct away from the thread, but I don't get the paint thing either. I personally love them and if ifs a good horse, who cares.
UNLESS you're breeding or want a prospect with a better, more definitive chance of making it like some very well do, I think some people care a little too much about papers and what big names they can tell everyone their horse is related too anyways..IMO
My paint mare has several "big" names on her papers and I'll happily breed her for a prospect for myself. It's just a Shi* show trying to selling them later if you need to. | |
| | |
Peecans
| Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 9:36 AM
abrad12 - 2018-08-22 11:24 AM The market is all over the place right now. I'm seeing 18yo crippled barrel horses selling for $10k+ and weanlings selling for $6k, meanwhile I've got a started shapey dun 2yo filly for $3k right now and can't even get a bite. OMG she's 1/32 paint, give me a break, shes flipping nice and GENTLE. I'm losing my a** on her. I also had my finished saintly youth suitable 11yo mare for $8k and didn't get any hits on her either. I give up. I refused to take less than she was insured for.
I don't completely get the Paint thing either---few years back I had a daughter of Bully Bullion, 3D mare, but sound and safe. Couldn't give her away---scared me away from the Paint thing.
Everybody likes my dun mare until they find out shes a paint, good thing shes not for sale I guess lol. | |
| | |
Peecans
| Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 10:03 AM
della - 2018-08-22 12:01 PM In all reality for what it costs I don't sell my foals for enough, most people don't. 5K is less than I ask and even 5 is not truly enough for many foals. When you add up stud fees, collection charges, shipping charges, ultrasounds, vet fees, mare care or fuel and time driving her back and forth for weeks plus all the mares upkeep during gestation and foal rasing. Feeding the foal, fitting effort and cost in sale adds.... There's nothing left at the end of the day. I am not longer even wanting to deal with it all anymore. I have only ever made a good profit on watching stallion auctions for local live cover proven producing quality stallions. And That's what I'll keep doing. Live cover hand breeding or onsite AI, I grew to dread and despise breeding season after a couple really unlucky years and if I hate it ... What's the point.
ABSOLUTELY---ya gotta do it cause you love it, cause it is dang hard to make much money at it.
That is very true. I leased them out last year and considering just leaving them there until I really love it again. Lost my self somewhere the last few years and its just too much stress and work when your heart is not in it. | |
| | |
Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | della - 2018-08-22 12:11 PM Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 10:03 AM della - 2018-08-22 12:01 PM In all reality for what it costs I don't sell my foals for enough, most people don't. 5K is less than I ask and even 5 is not truly enough for many foals. When you add up stud fees, collection charges, shipping charges, ultrasounds, vet fees, mare care or fuel and time driving her back and forth for weeks plus all the mares upkeep during gestation and foal rasing. Feeding the foal, fitting effort and cost in sale adds.... There's nothing left at the end of the day. I am not longer even wanting to deal with it all anymore. I have only ever made a good profit on watching stallion auctions for local live cover proven producing quality stallions. And That's what I'll keep doing. Live cover hand breeding or onsite AI, I grew to dread and despise breeding season after a couple really unlucky years and if I hate it ... What's the point. ABSOLUTELY---ya gotta do it cause you love it, cause it is dang hard to make much money at it. That is very true. I leased them out last year and considering just leaving them there until I really love it again. Lost my self somewhere the last few years and its just too much stress and work when your heart is not in it.
We have been doing this a LONG time and it seems like when we start getting down or frustrated with ALL THE WORK that goes into it---one of our kids will jump up and do really well somewhere and it lights the fire back up and recharges the battery. | |
| | |
Peecans
| Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 10:17 AM
della - 2018-08-22 12:11 PM Mighty Broke - 2018-08-22 10:03 AM della - 2018-08-22 12:01 PM In all reality for what it costs I don't sell my foals for enough, most people don't. 5K is less than I ask and even 5 is not truly enough for many foals. When you add up stud fees, collection charges, shipping charges, ultrasounds, vet fees, mare care or fuel and time driving her back and forth for weeks plus all the mares upkeep during gestation and foal rasing. Feeding the foal, fitting effort and cost in sale adds.... There's nothing left at the end of the day. I am not longer even wanting to deal with it all anymore. I have only ever made a good profit on watching stallion auctions for local live cover proven producing quality stallions. And That's what I'll keep doing. Live cover hand breeding or onsite AI, I grew to dread and despise breeding season after a couple really unlucky years and if I hate it ... What's the point. ABSOLUTELY---ya gotta do it cause you love it, cause it is dang hard to make much money at it. That is very true. I leased them out last year and considering just leaving them there until I really love it again. Lost my self somewhere the last few years and its just too much stress and work when your heart is not in it.
That is fantastic your whole family can share in your passion.
I know everybody has hard times and its nice to know people get past them. | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line