I'm bored this morning, so was pondering things.  How broke are the WPRA horses?  Can Sherry Cervi lope little collected circles on Stingray?  Can Haley Kinsel ride Sister around with her head level and collected?

These are just examples. Don't really care if they can do those things or not, they are winners regardless. 

 But I see a ton of posts about what is BROKE to you?  I know everyone is different, but how many 1D horses are really broke?  I seem to remember Lance Graves riding that gray mare that he saddled in the trailer to keep her from flipping over and hand walked her until he got on and ran.  Broke?? Uh...   

Not saying you can't love a horse that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but do the bells and whistles improve a horse to be 1D or do they actually slow them down?   I feel like there's a fine line between 1D and too much. 

I have seen a ton of extremely broke professional barrel horses. :) When Racers Edge, Training Barrel Horses, Winning Runs or Women’s Pro Rodeo Today have had some live interviews or how-to’s, the horses look good in my opinion! However, there will always be an exception to every rule. I really appreciate when a professional is honest and states this is my horses flaw and we constantly have to work on it. I feel that being a “broke” barrel horse is almost a necessity in today’s competitive world, there is just not a lot of room for error anymore.

In my opinion so many are hot and excitable because of the way they're bred.  There's not always a lot you can do about that especially if they've been on the track.  I had a  Mr. Trucka Jet son that was a study in this theory.  So much talent and speed but not easy to get along with.  

I'd say Stingray can for sure. Sherry rides her that way in some of her instructional videos. Sister was used on the ranch, and I would think she could as well (maybe not as small of circles cause shes a big mare). 

I think I get what you are saying though. The same way lots of race horses are just "track broke". 

I don't think being or not being super broke would slow one down but I think it would make fixing problems and fine tuning MUCH harder if they weren't. 

Most of them are very well broke. Louie was  MT award winner in the reined cowhorse. They just know when it’s time to tend to business. 

The grey mare you refer to I believe is Miss Fortune's Fool, and from what have read and heard, was a very talented, quirky mare. I don't know who started her as a colt, but guessing there may have been a few holes in her foundation training. Regardless, and kudos to Lance for finding a way to work with her, and win.

I also think it depends if you’re asking them to exhibit their “brokenness” at home where it’s calm and quiet. Or in the little patch of grass between trailers within earshot of the arena at a rodeo.

They know when it’s go time.  Quite a few probably make better runs if they’re left alone and allowed to exhibit a few of the more harmless quirks rather than insistance on picture perfect behavior.

I agree.  It's wonderful if their nature is to be quiet and easy-going but if you'll notice the horses in the alleyway at the NFR it's not always the case.  Even Louie doesn't always want to go in the arena.  It's a tough job for a horse.  Think about what must be going through their minds when it's time to run.......so much action in so little time.

I think WrapSnap explained it once very well (how broke those pro horses are, I don't know) is that you want a horse with all the buttons and sensitive, but not so much so that during a run you can't pull on them or bump them without them going haywire. Or if you do (because as riders we make errors) they can handle it. He said it much better than I did, but I think I got the gist.

The horse I used in college rodeo in barrels, goats and roping was broke, broke, broke.  He carried me to 2nd in barrels, goats and breakaway (and team championship) in my region as a freshman.  I also won state championships on him in reining!  He knew his job -- and when I switched to his barrel bridle, he went into racing mode.  I think a 'broke' horse is a must if you wish to get the top and stay there.  

Remember how calm and collected Mary Burger and Sadies Famous Last Words was at the NFR.  I think you can tell alot about how broke the horse is by how the horse responds to the rider, even in high stress situations like night 10 of the NFR.  There are several that need Liana to put 60 days on them.  

900 times agree!   Letting them have their quirks is a huge thing!  Picking at some of the good ones is WAY counter-productive because it ****es them off. I know of a couple in particular, in person, and you let them be a bit of an as* and they'll run their heart out for you.  Otherwise your shins might pay for it. 

I also agree that most know when it's go-time.  

I think people are right though that those buttons make it easy to move a horse on pattern without a lot of effort and without slowing them down.  I see where that makes the Pros the Pros, because they have that ability in high pressure situations on multiple horses and long term. 

Good conversation! 

Good discussion!

Last year or the year before there was a video of a well known (NFR) barrel racer and horse warming up and was bouncing off everyone. People made negative comments like couch jockeys do on videos....but who cares? That horse wasn't out there to lope pretty circles....he was a winner in the arena and that's what his job was to do. 

I don't know that I've ever heard someone say "Well my horse could run in the 1D but he's too broke" haha :) I think its our job as riders to know those buttons, how reactive they are to them, and know how to use them in a run without interfering. That's just being a good horseman IMO.

A horse that wins is going to win because it has the heart and talent to win, paired with the right jockey to make it happen. 

I remember a post from a while back about Louie...didn't his former trainer write him off as a barrel horse because he was "too fancy broke"?? If I remember that story correctly!

That does sound familiar. . . 

I watched Sherry Cervi on RE the other night and really enjoyed it.  She demonstrated one of the things she teaches all her horses (small figure 8s, staying in same track) and commented on watching the difference between her seasoned horse and a younger one--Stingray's daughter).  Of course when it showed SR being introduced to a group of young racers at an arena before a run, I cried. . . When that mare came in the gate, those kids were DONE paying attention to Sherry!

you won't see many that stay in the 1d for any period of time that are not "BROKE" 

This.... I sent one to someone to season for me and she said she was way too sensative - if she shifted her hips or put her leg on her she would do a flying lead change, if she applied pressure at all she would rate 10x more than needed. So I would definitely say there has to be a happy medium between responsive and room for rider errors.

I understand this too. I rode a friends cow pony and the mare was so sensitive that she slid stopped when I sat down for the first turn. I actually rode the mare pretty forward - like I did the rocket mare - and not a solid sit down like I do Zan. 

WrapSnap tuned and trained the rocket mare to the left hand pattern. She was so soft and sensitive while doing slow work that Andy rode her in her first show in a ring bit. I sure wish he'd come tell the story of the runaway freight train he was on when he took off on the mare for at their first show!!  He tells such good stories. But the rocket mare was the perfect combo imo -- heck of a handle at slow work at home but a whole lot less sensitive when facing the pattern.  

That's a great way to put it!   Responsive and room for error!