I have a strong hard mouthed horse with tons of forward motion. I've worked and worked at rate, tried different bits for more whoa. I got a bit in May that he really really was working nicely in.  I placed in the top 5 at a couple rodeos at the beginning of the season then it all went to crap.  It's my fault because I didn't pay any attention to how well this bit fit in his mouth.  Don't ask me why........I just put it on a bridle and rode.  Well......turns out it's too wide and I had it hanging loose in his mouth and two rodeos in a row........the bit slid threw, he clamped down on it and my left rein and of course we had nothing at the 2nd and 3rd.  The 1st rodeo I just thought he didn't like the ground and didn't realize it slid threw and it came loose by the time we got to the 3rd.

So I shorten the bridle and doubled the bit gaurds on each (I wasn't using any bit guards before) hoping that this would help taking up the space.  Well.....let me tell you, he did NOT like it being tighter in his mouth at all.  He braced against it, refused to give his face and crossfired. So I went back to the bit I'd been using before and last weekend again he had no rate and just ran through the bit when I pulled.

Now I've already made the decision to slow him down at the next race and he's a ratey turny son of a gun at home.  My question if I go lighter since he initially worked good in the dangling mouth bit do you think he will go back to working good as long as I make sure it fits him properly? Should I look for the same bit but one that fits side to side?  Is he just bracing now because he's a jerk and figured out he can?

We really worked so hard at getting rate and now I feel like we've just lost it and the more I pull the harder he pulls against me :(

Be helpful to know what bit it was and what type of mouthpiece. 

There are so many options that it's hard to know what to suggest. 

Yes! I just had this breakthrough with my rodeo horse. I have had her for three years and we could not keep the barrels up. Nothing I tried worked to keep up her shoulder. I tried everything from longer shank bits to a snaffle and nothing helped. This summer I just switched her to a short s hackamore  and oh my goodness are we doing amazing! She hasn't hit a barrel since and we have been clocking amazingly. I would never have thought that a hackamore would be the thing to work. It just took trial and error to figure out what was going to fit. Tthere were a lot of embarrasing moments and lost fees but we got over it. It was really frusterating to work through but it will get better! I wish you the best of luck with your horse!

Sure did, on 3 different horses. Classical dressage was the answer, that and taking time off from the pattern. On one of them it was more than dressage and bits, it was a complete lifestyle and feed change. On one went from having bad first barrels every time to getting right every time. The other went from no control to no problelem with control. The third wasn't a barrel horse, but we ditched the spurs, tie down and went to a lighter bit. He was a team roping horse turned ranch horse/trail riding horse. 

just wanted to add the Classical dressage was lessons for BOTH of us. Lessons are great for riders, we get in little bad habits so easily and don't even realize it. 

I will go to a slim mouth piece snaffle when I feel less respect from bit pressure.  One needs to recognize when they feel luggy and stop that right then that will go a long ways to keeping them respectful.

Most every horse that comes here. I back off the headgear. Because a horse is an animal of flight. When you hurt one they will run. Even one. The next hardest part is stop the rider from pulling on the horses head. You pull they push. When you trap the horse's head. That makes them anxious nervous. The rider braces up against the horse and the horse braces up against the rider. 

Less is more in most every case. Your body positions have to change. 

The poor fitting bit that initially worked really well was a Cervi, low port, jointed with a long shank.  Prior to that I was using a long shank Ed Wright twisted wire.  I was really having to check him early and hard at the end of last season with the Wright, but he was listening and we ended the season in good shape.

He does okay in smaller pens but the big pens now that he has more run is really becoming an issue. That's when we have the pulling and pushing. Tomorrow I am going to a huge pen jackpot JUST to do exhibitions and slow him down.

I have a little s hack and I'm going to try it now after hearing your story.  Congrats on finding your sweet spot!

My rodeo gelding came to me blown up and hard hard mouthed. He has scar tissue on his tongue (practically almost was cut in half by god knows what). I rode around in the bit they recommended for him for the first couple of months just to learn him, then I went to a bosal. I started him over almost like he was a colt. Granted I got him as a ranch horse (since he was 'blown up and needed another job') so I wasn't missing any races or rodeos at the time. I played with him in the round pen for a week in a bosal working on him listening to my feet and seat rather than my hands, then went to a bigger pen, then the open range. Then I started him back up on barrels in the bosal. Ran him in a little S hack all last summer, then went to a cervi short shank chain mp. Now he's in a no gag short shanked chain mp and it is PERFECT for him. I still ranch in the bosal here and there, but not daily. I like to keep things mixed up, some days he may ride in an o ring, the next day it may be a spade, then a curb, then a jr cowhorse. etc. 

Yes. Jr Cow horse is my go to bit. 

Yes. Sometimes going softer can offer a better feel to the horse. I was once told that two "hard" things rubbing against each other can't create softness. I've gone to a hack before because it offers that different feel. Have you tried the bit he likes adjusted loosly but with extra bit guards? Or can it be ordered in a different size?

Lots of one rein stops can help with braciness. Pulling with two reins gives something for the horse to brace against.  I second the dressage lessons or lessons with someone knowledgable. They could help get him listening to you again doing work away from the barrels and maybe make adjustments in how you are asking him to respond.

I'd take him back to the basics and get him really broke and soft. This can take a long time, because there will probably be lots of flashbacks you have to work through. I'm the old school type that believes in backing one off (stop running barrel races) until the softness comes. Then I'd be riding a shows, continuing to work on softness there- but not running.   I'd hazard a guess he's bracing outside the arena at shows too. Then lots of slow exhibitions until the braciness is gone on the pattern. It feels like it takes forever.

Realistically - just changing bits all the time and hoping something magically changes probably will not work. To get the lasting results- more than likely- you need to go back to the basics and get him to understand how to accept the contact without bracing.

Yes I did double the bit guards for a better fit on the bit he liked, however he's leary of it now that it slid threw his mouth and he's been bracing really bad even at home just attempting to lope a circle.

He's working softly back in his Ed Wright but not a lot of whoa.

I came from a hunter/jumper background so I feel like my horsemanship is correct. Not that I can't make mistakes.  I do attend a good 3 day barrel clinic every year for the last 3 years.

I don't want to keep switching bits for sure.  I hate that I found one that worked till the mishap.

Assuming that you have checked his mouth and there are no issues there. Also assuming that you know its not a pain issue somewhere.

Since you have the english background -  how does he work off your seat? Can you do smooth half-haults on him? Does he stop off your seat while working at slower speeds? (walk, trot, slow easy lope) What is his general response to being asked to move in a collected frame?

If he is working softly in the ed wright but doesn't have a good stop - what are your plans to get that good stop? What have you tried to get it? Sometimes knowing what didn't work helps to point in the direction of what might work. I don't want to insult you with basic suggestions - but I'd take him back to a walk- get that stop nailed down off the seat and just the lighest contact on the reins (where you hold them steady in a collected position, but aren't pulling, and stop by taking your legs off and using your seat). You were probably drilled on that coming from an english background. Then get it at a trot, then a slow lope.

It also sounds like he needs to learn to accept some contact on the reins with out bracing. Do you bit him up and work in the round pen? Are you very aware of the feel you offer when you pick up a rein? Have you tried one rein stops?

One-rein stops Key to softening when done right.  Some horses need to go back to one-rein stops more often than others.  It will also teach riders how to ask for a rate or stop.

Have you tried a combo on him? My rocket mare rode on the flat in a soft ring bit (or hack, or piece of string for that matter) but put her in the alley and no way no how could you make a run in that. We put her in a mullen lifter for a while and that worked but she was still pushing too much with her nose and shouldering the second barrel. I had a combo made for her with a 3 piece mouth with a copper roller in the middle and equal purchase and shank so I still had lift for that shoulder. She ran in that combo for 8 years with no problems. I liked it because it wasn't a harsh bit at all and I could lift, tip nose and rate all in one.

Hey streakysox, what's your preferred mouthpiece on jr cow horse? 
Thanks! 

I went to a more agressive mouth piece ,more purchase, less leverage and it seemed to work well for him. First 2 photos is the Pretzel wanna be bit that I ran my older gelding in for years when the Pretzel bit I had had was "lost". Obviously Easy didn't care for it,nor me at that point, LOL!  The 3rd photo is a shallow creek "Lagnieppe" square mouth, longer purchase, less leverage shank SC-77

I learned that 40 years ago and any bit is as harsh as your hands. 

A gal had one of our colts and was having trouble with her second barrel and came to our place for some help. She ran the pattern and colt was fighting her, had all the gear on, bonnet, pretty heavy bit---forget exactly what. Mrs. Mighty Broke said here---take all that off and put a little S Hack on the horse and whammo, it all came together. Within a month she was breaking arena records around here, she sold the horse and he went on to win the Colonial Nationals and set an arena record there at the time. So, YES---sometimes less can be more.

Is that a case of less is more or,  like jeans just a better fit ,for that particular horse which is really all that sometimes a ighter bit or a little more agressive bit is in the long run, right?  I think you can sneak by bits that are the right fit if you have great hands and great timing, but in the long run you need to find what suits the horse.  I think Jordan Briggs started running Rollo in a hack earlier this year, so switching it up when its needed sounds like a good plan too.