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Member
Posts: 26
| fatchance - 2013-11-25 9:37 PM
fatchance - 2013-11-25 6:29 PM Â I say they should allow the 4-5 D runners to set the pace. Then place accordlingly backwards. Â 
Why is this being ignored? It a valid point.....
race1
ras/
noun
noun: race; plural noun: races
1.
a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, boats, etc., to see which is the fastest in covering a set course.
"I won the first 50-lap race"
synonyms: contest, competition, event, heat, trial(s) More
Get into western pleasure if you want the slowest people to win! Geez!
Edited by Justawannabe 2013-11-25 9:42 PM
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
 
| fatchance - 2013-11-25 9:37 PM fatchance - 2013-11-25 6:29 PM I say they should allow the 4-5 D runners to set the pace. Then place accordlingly backwards. Why is this being ignored? It a valid point.....
Interesting twist. How would that work? Kind of like golf where you set a par? | |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
  
| TXBO - 2013-11-25 7:22 PM barrelracinbroke - 2013-11-25 9:15 PM TXBO - 2013-11-25 6:59 PM barrelracinbroke - 2013-11-25 8:42 PM Reminds me of where today's society is heading. Everyone gets a trophy just for participating. Which to me, makes people they deserve something just for showing up instead of being motivated to get better.
No, I definitely don't agree with equal pay for each division. It is a RACE (hence the name "barrel race"), the fastest time deserves the highest payout.
Doesn't mean people who didn't win the 1D don't work as hard, pay the same dues, etc.... they just didn't win the RACE that day. So, they don't get the same prize as the one who did. But, hopefully, what they did get, is motivation for next time. Another inaccurate political cliche unless of course you are abdicating elimination of the D system.
On the other hand if you are comparing the redistribution of 2,3 or 4 D money to the 1D winner, then it is similar to ObamaCare forcing young healthy citizens to subsidize the healthcare premiums for others.
Ironically, the D system aligns with this philosophy equally if not more than equal pay. Yet the D system you like. Isn't that hypocritical?
To be exact, my thoughts of society were geared more toward parenting than politics. However, that ("that" being parenting) is an entirely different subject that I'm not interested in discussing.
I do not view the "D" system as aligning with the "trophies for all" philosophy. UNLESS, the D system is an equal payout for all divisions. Then yes, I do, and that is exactly my point. Wherein, there is no hipocracy.
I am also not interested in delving deeper in to this. It is a simple thread on barrel racing views regarding "D" payouts. No more, no less. I am not interested in making it more.
My view is clear and without hipocracy. Whether you decide to take it that way or not, is your choice.
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | Interesting theory-Never thought of that. Letting the slowest set the D's. But that might require a different race at events like an amateur class for under 2 year competitors or something. Otherwise you might skew the results of a bell curve.
On the other note, I've only seen about 95% 4D events here in MS with 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, whole split. Then about the other 5% with a 5D all 1/2 splits. I haven't seen an even payout event yet. Sure would like to though! Of course I'm the 4D'er. Sometimes when you place in that D it sure would be nice to even get your fee back. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 268
| I like the 4D system as is. I have never run at an equal payout race, but I can for sure see why there is controversy. I have a SOLID 4D horse, and when I say that, I mean she almost always pulls a check and has WON the 4D several times with a decent number of entries. And I am happy with the payout I receive. I also have a younger horse who has run anywhere from 1D-3D and will make a 1D/2D horse when finished, and I have had some nice 1D/2D horses. So what I'm saying is I have horses at pretty much all levels and am happy with the way the 4D system is. I think it's a fair system for everyone. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Around here, I don't think I've ever seen an equal payout race.
Like the D system or not, I think overall, it's good for the industry. It gives value to the horses that may not ever have the ability to hit the 1D. It also allows producers to host larger races at better facilities and still make money.
For family-geared organizations, like NBHA and IBRA, it allows kids to measurably work up through the Ds, and maybe still win a little something along the way. Same goes for me as a weekend rider. In addition, it rewards the hard work of those running for points and rewards their dedication with end of year awards.
I think progressive payout is the way to go, personally. The fastest division should pay better. However, the D system, despite its "socialist" overtones (lol) still does more good than harm for the industry. Jmo | |
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Veteran
Posts: 165
| I think the Divisional system is great for the barrel racing industry, and is a great way to include all levels of horses and riders, but I feel like equal payout cheapens it. A race is a race. The faster horses deserve to win more than the slower ones. We don't have equal payout races around here, but I don't really think any of the girls here would really feel proud to be winning the same amount in the 4th as the 1d winners are getting. Yes, everybody pays the same entry, but not everyone tries as hard or has a horse at the top level, so they should be paid accordingly. Having said that I just want to mention that I am not riding a consistant 1D horse. When I win the bingo and make money in the second or third division, I do not expect to win the same as the faster horses, I'm just relieved that I'm going to get something, however when I make a good run and place in the 1d I want to be paid accordingly. | |
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | stetchkk - 2013-11-25 7:35 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM
stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM
SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times?    At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
Â
I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks.
Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : )
Well sorry you're so put out by the topic of my post. Some of us aren't on here 24/7. Was just looking for others opinions and if they do this sort of thing in other areas besides just where I live. Next time I'll ask if it's okay to discuss it. Wow.
Go ahead and discuss it anytime. It's cool. I get free popcorn and margaritas. Lighten up. | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | LRQHS - 2013-11-26 4:06 AM
stetchkk - 2013-11-25 7:35 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM
stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM
SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times?  At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
Â
I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks.
Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : )
Well sorry you're so put out by the topic of my post. Some of us aren't on here 24/7. Was just looking for others opinions and if they do this sort of thing in other areas besides just where I live. Next time I'll ask if it's okay to discuss it. Wow.
Go ahead and discuss it anytime. It's cool. I get free popcorn and margaritas. Lighten up.
Oh....and it's 24/5 1/2 for me. I take Saturday nights and Sundays off :) | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Red Raider - 2013-11-25 7:10 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-25 5:24 PM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times?  At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
 I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks. Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : )
You had me until you said fine wine lol. Maybe change that to Guiness and them I'm golden lol. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | LRQHS - 2013-11-26 4:27 AM
Red Raider - 2013-11-25 7:10 PM
LRQHS - 2013-11-25 5:24 PM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:2o4 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times?  At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
 I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks. Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : )
You had me until you said fine wine lol. Maybe change that to Guiness and them I'm golden lol.
I love wine. I know only a little about wines... But I enjoy a nice Chardonnay.
I'm also not a bourbon gal, but I'd drink my hubby's bottle of vanblankie he's got... Though I think he'd kill me. Lol! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | I guess coming from the Show world I look at the D's a little differently. To me they are doing the samething as what we have at most shows only you are all running concurrently. We have Open Jr western Pleasure, Sr western Pleasure. Which busts up the horses by age. then we have amatuer western pleasure and youth western pleasure. Which busts up the people a bit by age and of course keeps the pros out. Then we have the youth broke down usually into at least 13 and under and 14 and over and even have the select division for the older amatuers. Then at the big shows they may have Limited Jr western pleasure which is open to all but only pros who have never won a world title. Or they might have Jr western pleasure and give a special award to the highest placing amatuer and or youth. The D system is basically accomplishing all of this same thing in a nice easy way. AND still allowing a top pro that might have a bobble to make alittle money at a lower level. Or allow that amatuer that might not have entered the big open class that has a GREAT run the opportunity to make a win in the 1D. It's a good system I won't knock it. Equal payouts????? That I think is alittle hinky but not anything that would keep me from running just think that it would be more logical to go with sliding payouts. But when has there ever been much logic with horse ownership.  | |
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | doglady - 2013-11-25 10:14 PM I put on a three day barrel race every spring here in Nebraska. We use the payoff scale of 40,30,20,10 % to the D's. But we give prizes for each barrel race-(There are five). Prizes to lst and 2nd in each d and overall division winners. We also give overall prizes and use a point system where the d's all get the same points so a 4-d horse has just as much chance to win the overall as the 1-d horse.
We have never had anyone even suggest to have the payoff equal.
I don't rodeo anymore but have a 1-d, 2-d-hopefully to be a 1-d when he can go faster than a lope to the lst barrel, and a couple of colts. I can tell you that for sure the 1-d horse has more wear and tear on him going fast than the horses that are running in the 3 and 4ds
I haven't done this in like forever so I will play. First let me say I am not for equal payout.
I have heard these statements before....physical law would prove this assumption incorrect more times than not. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2013-11-26 12:33 AM Around here, I don't think I've ever seen an equal payout race.
Like the D system or not, I think overall, it's good for the industry. It gives value to the horses that may not ever have the ability to hit the 1D. It also allows producers to host larger races at better facilities and still make money.
For family-geared organizations, like NBHA and IBRA, it allows kids to measurably work up through the Ds, and maybe still win a little something along the way. Same goes for me as a weekend rider. In addition, it rewards the hard work of those running for points and rewards their dedication with end of year awards.
I think progressive payout is the way to go, personally. The fastest division should pay better. However, the D system, despite its "socialist" overtones (lol) still does more good than harm for the industry. Jmo
This sums it up nicely. I don't understand what the fuss is all about, I guess. This is the kind of debate/thread that takes on a life of it's own and always manages to ruffle feathers along the way. Almost everyone agrees that outside of rodeo, the D system has been a godsend. You pay more for the placings in the faster divisions. Basic, common sense, happy medium. Most people agree that equal payouts for each "D" is ridiculous. That's why you almost never see them. | |
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 Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-26 7:37 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-11-26 12:33 AM Around here, I don't think I've ever seen an equal payout race.
Like the D system or not, I think overall, it's good for the industry. It gives value to the horses that may not ever have the ability to hit the 1D. It also allows producers to host larger races at better facilities and still make money.
For family-geared organizations, like NBHA and IBRA, it allows kids to measurably work up through the Ds, and maybe still win a little something along the way. Same goes for me as a weekend rider. In addition, it rewards the hard work of those running for points and rewards their dedication with end of year awards.
I think progressive payout is the way to go, personally. The fastest division should pay better. However, the D system, despite its "socialist" overtones (lol) still does more good than harm for the industry. Jmo This sums it up nicely. I don't understand what the fuss is all about, I guess. This is the kind of debate/thread that takes on a life of it's own and always manages to ruffle feathers along the way. Almost everyone agrees that outside of rodeo, the D system has been a godsend. You pay more for the placings in the faster divisions. Basic, common sense, happy medium. Most people agree that equal payouts for each "D" is ridiculous. That's why you almost never see them.
Calling the D system "socialist" is stupid. Let's equate the 1D as "the rich" in the socialist comparison. In a normal D payout (not equal), the majority of those winnings come from non-1D riders. The 1D people should be the happiest out of anyone with the D system.
Equal payout is a totally different story though BUT at the end of the day, we all have a choice to enter or stay home. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | bocephus's mama - 2013-11-26 7:52 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-11-26 7:37 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-11-26 12:33 AM Around here, I don't think I've ever seen an equal payout race.
Like the D system or not, I think overall, it's good for the industry. It gives value to the horses that may not ever have the ability to hit the 1D. It also allows producers to host larger races at better facilities and still make money.
For family-geared organizations, like NBHA and IBRA, it allows kids to measurably work up through the Ds, and maybe still win a little something along the way. Same goes for me as a weekend rider. In addition, it rewards the hard work of those running for points and rewards their dedication with end of year awards.
I think progressive payout is the way to go, personally. The fastest division should pay better. However, the D system, despite its "socialist" overtones (lol) still does more good than harm for the industry. Jmo This sums it up nicely. I don't understand what the fuss is all about, I guess. This is the kind of debate/thread that takes on a life of it's own and always manages to ruffle feathers along the way. Almost everyone agrees that outside of rodeo, the D system has been a godsend. You pay more for the placings in the faster divisions. Basic, common sense, happy medium. Most people agree that equal payouts for each "D" is ridiculous. That's why you almost never see them.
Equal payout is a totally different story though BUT at the end of the day, we all have a choice to enter or stay home.
I was referring (sarcastically) to TXBO's posts LOL
Also, agree with highlights | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| LRQHS - 2013-11-26 4:06 AM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 7:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times? At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks. Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : ) Well sorry you're so put out by the topic of my post. Some of us aren't on here 24/7. Was just looking for others opinions and if they do this sort of thing in other areas besides just where I live. Next time I'll ask if it's okay to discuss it. Wow. Go ahead and discuss it anytime. It's cool. I get free popcorn and margaritas. Lighten up.
Your side shows in a derailed thread can be quite humorous. This thread has been a good civil discussion making your side show inconsiderate and insipid. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TXBO - 2013-11-26 7:57 AM LRQHS - 2013-11-26 4:06 AM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 7:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times? At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks. Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : ) Well sorry you're so put out by the topic of my post. Some of us aren't on here 24/7. Was just looking for others opinions and if they do this sort of thing in other areas besides just where I live. Next time I'll ask if it's okay to discuss it. Wow. Go ahead and discuss it anytime. It's cool. I get free popcorn and margaritas. Lighten up.
Hey now, play nice
although I am impressed by your use of the word "insipid" on this thread.  | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | TXBO - 2013-11-26 7:57 AM LRQHS - 2013-11-26 4:06 AM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 7:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM stetchkk - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 1:32 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:30 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:24 PM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-25 3:23 PM LRQHS - 2013-11-25 3:16 PM Haven't we already discussed this about 800 times? At least 1000 times and the answers and opinions never never ever vary.
I searched for anything in the last year on bhw about equal payouts and saw nothing. That's why I posted. Thanks. Check again.....we talk about this at least once a month....it's always the same.....another margarita please : ) Well sorry you're so put out by the topic of my post. Some of us aren't on here 24/7. Was just looking for others opinions and if they do this sort of thing in other areas besides just where I live. Next time I'll ask if it's okay to discuss it. Wow. Go ahead and discuss it anytime. It's cool. I get free popcorn and margaritas. Lighten up.
Ouch with the big words, Googly Goo. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I did this
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