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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | I thought I read that Tonalist did run in the Peter Pan at Belmont 3 weeks ago? http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/10916514/tonalist-hits-h...
Yes..My point is he only ran once as a 2 year old while CC ran about 7 times. Tonalist didn't run enough races to get enough points to qualify to run in the derby. Tonalist has only ran a handful of times while CC has run about 11 times I think? | |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | I am tired of going from facebook to here. So I shall paste and copy...my own words. Listen people buy a racing form, and handicap a horse along with knowing the breeding and lastest workouts....and never forget the track they like. Coburn has made me a disliker of Coburn....Go back to California you big ole crybaby! Something about the saying of "Stay on the porch" comes to mind. In the meantime I was impressed with winner of the grade II Peter Pan stakes winner Tonalist and thought he could pull this win off, due to winning on Belmont already, and never leaving Belmont up to this race. Something about how they way they trained him and how he was bred to go a route....and the fact they said they wanted the Belmont. Silly me for paying attention. To bad Coburn didn't. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
    
| fatchance - 2014-06-09 5:25 PM aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-08 5:21 PM The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo... Might want to start adding up graded 1 races for 3 year olds. It's why they came up with the point system.
Did no one see the video of rommans saying general a rod should have been scratched? Because he didn't go to the vet barn and saddling ring at the correct time?!.
Edited by aqhabarrelchic1 2014-06-08 8:05 PM
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... |
You've stated my sentiments exactly! They knew going in what the rules were and that they would be running against fresh horses. They knew they would also have a target on their backs. Mr. Coburn, even after a night to think about it, continues the rant today with the audacity and total lack of compassion in comparing race horses to children in wheelchairs. He is, indeed, a DumbA**....Chrome, the other partner, the trainer Mr. Sherman and the rest of the connections may of deserved a Triple Crown but Mr. Coburn doesn't deserve to be called a horseman. He is a jerk and I hope I never have to listen to him again. I got strongly ridiculed on FB for saying he was a sore-loser right after the race. After hearing him this morning, the term sore-loser was giving him too much credit.
Yeah I got into it too on FB with some people about this. People who were clearly just casual race fans - which is great, I'm glad the Triple Crown gets people to follow racing if only for 5 weeks out of the year - that kept saying how right he was and how unfair the Belmont was. One lady kept talking about how the TC was "all horse racing cared about" and that the TC "was the championship of horse racing". Uh no - the Breeders Cup races are the championship races each year and the TC is only for 3 year olds. There is a lot more to horse racing than the Triple Crown each year. I certainly don't think everyone has to agree with me about Coburn, but if you don't really follow racing don't try to make a stance on something you don't know any of the facts behind. | |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... | aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-08 7:21 PM The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo...
I agree with you. I don't think only those qualified for the Derby should be allowed to run in the Preakness and Belmont, but I do think there should be some restrictions on who can enter. I like your idea on at least having grade 1 earnings. Or be in the top 30 in points standings from the prep races (the top 20 three year olds in the points standings are the horses eligible for the Kentucky Derby).
Instead of just having allowance or claiming earnings. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | darn it my computer died and I'm on my husband cell phone so now I can't join in this conversation about cc so hopefully my computer will get better in a couple days and I can maybe catch up oh well my darn luckLol | |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
   Location: Always on call..... | Here's a good article I found about Coburn.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24583468/california-chrome-owner-coburns-coward-rant-wrong-record-shows-it | |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
    
| What frustrates me is that CC is being linked to a poor sport of an owner... that horse has done great things and his injury may or may not have hindered him yesterday but he sure gave it his all. | |
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Ms. Dr. Phil
    Location: My happy place | Check out GMA the owner & his wife were on with a heartfelt apology. I actually think he was sincere and sorry. Either his trainer or wife must have told him what a classless ass he was. I also agree with Billy Reed article below andI believe by his apology he read it. Billy Reed says Coburn 'classless in defeat' Posted: Jun 08, 2014 9:19 PM EDTUpdated: Jun 09, 2014 7:41 AM EDT  Billy Reed by Billy Reed WAVE 3 News Contributor Even before the horses were unsaddled after yesterday's Belmont Stake, the nation's TV screens were filled with the image of the big hat, big mustache and big mouth of Steve Coburn, who has just seen California Chrome the colt he co-owns with Perry Martin lose his bid to become thoroughbred racing's first Triple Crown winner since Affirmed 36 years ago. He was so boastful following the colt's victories in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness that it shouldn't have come as a surprise that he was classless in defeat. Almost literally shaking a fist at the victorious Tonalist, who had skipped both the Derby and Preakness to point for the Belmont, Coburn accused winning owner Robert Evans of "taking the coward's way out." He furthermore claimed that Evans' strategy was "unfair" to the horses who had run in the Derby. In other words, only the horses who run in the Derby and/or Preakness should be allowed to run in the Belmont. After he was done thoroughly embarrassing himself, his wife Carolyn admonished him but he snarled, "I don't care." He owes Evans a public apology. No owner should be forced to run a horse before he's ready and it's a perfect acceptable strategy to point a horse for the Belmont, the third jewel in the Triple Crown and New York's most prestigious race, instead of the Derby. At least, that's the way it has been since the Derby was first run in 1875. No owner or trainer in 140 years has ever criticized another's game plan the way Coburn lashed out at Evans yesterday. It's hard to say whether Coburn is as much of a bad sport as he is a blowhard, or whether he's just ignorant about the sport's customs. Probably a little of both. But his attack on Evans, coming only three weeks after his ill-advised criticism of Churchill Downs on the Preakness victory stand, has stained the feel-good story of California Chrome more than yesterday's defeat. Why did the colt lose? Well, maybe the pedigree experts were right. Maybe he didn't have the breeding necessary to handle the Belmont distance of a mile and a half. Maybe jockey Victor Espinoza, who rode perfect races in the Derby and Preakness, should have recognized the slow pace and taken him to lead after the first quarter-mile. Maybe Espinoza moved him too quickly and didn't leave anything in the tank for the last 300 yards. Or maybe – and most likely – Chrome ran into a late-blooming colt who had the perfect game plan. Of the three colts who finished ahead of Chrome yesterday, none had competed in both the Derby and the Preakness. Heck, given his druthers, Art Sherman, Chrome's trainer, might have skipped the Preakness. But once a horse wins the Derby, he's almost obligated to go for the Triple Crown, whether it's good for him or not. Since the Triple Crown was invented in the 1930s, the Derby winner always has faced "new shooters" – fresh horses – in both the Preakness and the Belmont. It's as much a part of Triple Crown history as the roses, Black-Eyed Susans, and carnations that go the winners of the three events. The 11 Triple Crown winners were good enough to take on all comers. California Chrome was not. It's really as simple as that. Generally speaking, the owners and trainers of the Triple Crown winners all have been deserving horsemen and perfect sportsman. But sometimes a good horse falls into the hands of people who don't deserve him, and that now appears to be the case with Coburn and Martin. Especially Coburn. After the Preakness, he praised Baltimore and Pimlico for their hospitality. But then, instead of leaving it at that, he added that "Churchill Downs could learn something" from them. He later explained that Churchill hadn't made the necessary arrangements for Martin's mother, who was in a wheelchair, to see the race and get to the winner's circle. Coming in the wake of other complaints by horsemen, Coburn's comments were easy to believe. But the facts didn't support his complaints. The Lexington Herald-Leader ran a photo of Churchill employees carrying the wheelchair to the winner's circle. And apparently Martin chose a place for his mother to watch the race where it was impossible to prevent fans from jumping up in front of her. Although Martin tried to soften the sting of Coburn's remarks when he was finally interviewed, Coburn did not retract his statements or apologize. But his remarks about Churchill paled in comparison with his attack on Evans (who, by the way, is not the same Bob Evens who runs Churchill Downs, Inc.). Here's a thought: Maybe the racing gods just don't let cads and heels win the Triple Crown. Even before the Derby, Coburn predicted that Chrome would sweep all three races. Conceit makes the gods frown. Maybe that's as good an explanation as any for what happened yesterday. Maybe Coburn's boorishness trumped the goodness and decency of Art Sherman, the 77-year-old former jockey who was trying to join immortals such Sunny Jim Fitzsimmons, Ben A. Jones, and Laz Barrera on the Triple Crown winner's list. Chrome did not run a bad race. He dead-heated with Wicked Strong for fourth, maybe two lengths behind the winner. He just did not get the perfect trip he got in the Derby. Had he gone straight to the lead and controlled the pace, the outcome might have been different. Instead of becoming the 12th Triple Crown winner, Chrome became the 13th horse to win the first two legs and fail in New York. Since Affirmed last won all three in 1978, the list of horses who couldn't cut it in the Big Apple includes Spectacular Bid (1979), Pleasant Colony (1981), Alysheba (1987), Sunday Silence (1989), Silver Charm (1997), Real Quiet (1998), Charismatic (1999), War Emblem (2001), Funny Cide (2003), Smarty Jones (2004), Big Brown (2008), and I'll Have Another (2012). So many quests have failed that the public can't be blamed for feeling as if they're trapped in the move "Groundhog Day," where history keeps repeating itself. It has the feeling of Lucy from the "Peanuts" comic strip, promising Charlie Brown that she won't jerk away the football when he tries to kick it, but then always does, leaving poor Charlie flat on his back. But there was nothing funny about Coburn's shocking display of bad sportsmanship. Sadly, it detracted from Tonalist's victory. When NBC's Bob Costas repeated Coburn's charges to Evans on the victory stand, he declined to reply because, well, he's a gentleman and a sportsman. Everything, in other words, that he of the big hat, big mustache, and big mouth is not. | |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
        Location: Pacific Northwest | fatchance - 2014-06-08 6:00 PM
I am tired of going from facebook to here. So I shall paste and copy...my own words. Listen people buy a racing form, and handicap a horse along with knowing the breeding and lastest workouts....and never forget the track they like. Coburn has made me a disliker of Coburn....Go back to California you big ole crybaby! Something about the saying of "Stay on the porch" comes to mind. In the meantime I was impressed with winner of the grade II Peter Pan stakes winner Tonalist and thought he could pull this win off, due to winning on Belmont already, and never leaving Belmont up to this race. Something about how they way they trained him and how he was bred to go a route....and the fact they said they wanted the Belmont. Silly me for paying attention. To bad Coburn didn't.
People underestimate how much it means for a horse to already prove successful at Belmont. I hadn't been paying close attention to anything and the day of the race a friend asked me why this "random Tonalist" horse had such good odds. I looked his race history up on Equibase and said "probably because he's already won at Belmont".
Of course then she boasted on FB after the race was over that she picked the winner and knew CC wasn't going to win, but oh well haha. | |
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| EXCELLENT article and spot on! | |
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    Location: South Dakota | CC's trainer Art Sherman, and his sons are real classy guys...and have been very professional and gracious throughout this whole journey....unfortunately Colburn's outburst has overshadowed them....and his horse. Hope Mr Steve, learns from this....maybe his mama needed to give him 1 more spanking, when he was a little boy....learn to be a good winner and loser. | |
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Ms. Dr. Phil
    Location: My happy place | I wonder how the owner of CC felt when he realized the owner of Tonalist was also the owner of Pleasant Colony who in 1981 was in the same spot as CC for the Triple Crown and got beat by fresh horse.
Edited by Palopony 2014-06-09 8:06 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1114
  Location: Mo. | runs4fun - 2014-06-08 5:31 PM fatchance - 2014-06-08 5:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
You've stated my sentiments exactly! They knew going in what the rules were and that they would be running against fresh horses. They knew they would also have a target on their backs. Mr. Coburn, even after a night to think about it, continues the rant today with the audacity and total lack of compassion in comparing race horses to children in wheelchairs. He is, indeed, a DumbA**....Chrome, the other partner, the trainer Mr. Sherman and the rest of the connections may of deserved a Triple Crown but Mr. Coburn doesn't deserve to be called a horseman. He is a jerk and I hope I never have to listen to him again. I got strongly ridiculed on FB for saying he was a sore-loser right after the race. After hearing him this morning, the term sore-loser was giving him too much credit.
I echo what both of you ladies say. I was appalled at Colburns raving---he knew the rules when he entered his horse.
However..... Bob Costas is a big pot stirrer, who loves drama. So Iit didn't surprised me when he sensationalized the interview. Mr. Costas loves doing this cr*p | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-06-09 8:47 AM
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    Location: South Dakota | Just Bring It - 2014-06-09 8:44 AM Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV.
It is one of those hard lessons of life...of which we all can learn from...my wish is that he can learn...and move on from this and truly savor and enjoy the great things his wonderful horse accomplished...of which I am sure he will. He is surrounded by a great trainer, and family.. which will help him...and it takes a big man to apoligize, especially on such a big stage...as I stated in a earlier post...maybe he needed one more spanking when he was little...but hey maybe he got enough of those...and found his way to say he was sorry... | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 208
 
| fatchance - 2014-06-08 8:02 PM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 4:50 PM I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat. Does it matter? Meaning he knew there would be fresh horses gunning his horse. OH SURPRISE! Personally tired of those who feel they know best when they are new to the game. CC trainer is keeping the class, but not Cogburn.
I find it funny he(Cogburn) wasn't more hacked off by his horse getting purposely boxed in. Sometimes you just have to make a point.
He obviously handled it poorly and I'm not sticking up for him but he did say in an interview on GMA immediately after winning the Preakness that he thought it was unfair for fresh horses to be able to enter the Belmont. So he wasn't just on a rant after losing, he has been saying that all along. But very poor way of expressing his beliefs.
I saw the view from overhead and it didn't look like CC was boxed in for much of the race, Victor instead chose not to go to the lead. In that big sweeping turn, he was 5 horses wide. How much ground did he have to give up in the turn? He then only lost by 1 3/4 lengths. Would he have been able to hold them off if he had moved on out in front of the field instead of giving so much ground in that huge turn? And it's intersting to note that he did outrun every horse that competed in both the Derby and Preakness. The three horses that outran him were fresh horses. And he did it all with a very painful injury right out of the gate. Something to think about. He has the heart of a true Champiom in my opinion. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Just Bring It - 2014-06-09 8:44 AM Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV.
I also think he's so new to the sport and got caught up on the ride and easy wins he's had. I hope this doesn't take anything away from a great colt that made a lot of people new racing fans. | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | ride n slide - 2014-06-09 8:56 AM fatchance - 2014-06-08 8:02 PM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 4:50 PM I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat. Does it matter? Meaning he knew there would be fresh horses gunning his horse. OH SURPRISE! Personally tired of those who feel they know best when they are new to the game. CC trainer is keeping the class, but not Cogburn.
I find it funny he(Cogburn) wasn't more hacked off by his horse getting purposely boxed in. Sometimes you just have to make a point.
He obviously handled it poorly and I'm not sticking up for him but he did say in an interview on GMA immediately after winning the Preakness that he thought it was unfair for fresh horses to be able to enter the Belmont. So he wasn't just on a rant after losing, he has been saying that all along. But very poor way of expressing his beliefs.
I saw the view from overhead and it didn't look like CC was boxed in for much of the race, Victor instead chose not to go to the lead. In that big sweeping turn, he was 5 horses wide. How much ground did he have to give up in the turn? He then only lost by 1 3/4 lengths. Would he have been able to hold them off if he had moved on out in front of the field instead of giving so much ground in that huge turn? And it's intersting to note that he did outrun every horse that competed in both the Derby and Preakness. The three horses that outran him were fresh horses. And he did it all with a very painful injury right out of the gate. Something to think about. He has the heart of a true Champiom in my opinion.
I hate reading all the comments about how CC never stood a chance and would not have won if he didn't get stepped on, boxed in, wide in the turn, etc, etc, etc. anyways. I definitely think CC had it in him but it just wasn't his day. I hope he comes back from his vacation and just whoops up on everyone. | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | CYA Ranch - 2014-06-09 9:05 AM Just Bring It - 2014-06-09 8:44 AM Just watched Coburn on GMA right now. He gave a very emotional apology. I like Coburn. No, he should not have said what he said or in the way he did but he is a passionate man and I think he was just heartbroken because he had high hopes for his horse and that dream was just smashed and then a mic was shoved in his face. He has never filtered himself before so why expect him to when he is defeated? He was upset and a lot of emotions just came out. I don't fault him for it one bit. It happens. We have all said stupid crap in the heat of the moment we just didn't have it broadcasted over national TV. I also think he's so new to the sport and got caught up on the ride and easy wins he's had. I hope this doesn't take anything away from a great colt that made a lot of people new racing fans.
Yup. Losing gracefully takes practice! Very few people are born a good loser especially when you have had nothing but success and then to learn on national TV is even more difficult. I feel for him. I am sure he is completely embarrassed and feels that his tirade took away from his horse. | |
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