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LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?

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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Bear - 2016-01-29 10:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 

That looks correct until you realize that they were already shooting...the windshield was shot out when they were approaching the road block, a leo stepped in front of the vehicle, shot and Lavoy then drove off the road, he was braking prior to that, and they DID stop before and that's when the shooting started & why they fled.
He did not exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand as he would have if his intent was to kill and/or be killed. IF he tried to go for a gun it was after they already shot him...it's very possible he reached for his stomach because he was shot in the stomach. He likely figured that since they were going to kill him anyhow then he might try to take one with him...
Those that knew him said, and there are pictures to show, that he carried his gun on his right hip and never went to meetings armed.
It'll get spun however to keep the public from getting upset anyhow.
I'm still very appalled that anyone, anywhere, any race could be shot without an absolute life or death threat being made.
hmmm...guess that's just me!

 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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I think this sums it up...for me at least. Good day everyone, may we find our way and it be Blessed.
The Great Challenge of 2016 - We the People vs. Corrupt Government - Burns, Oregon January, 2016.
There has been an historic happening in our nation. It will either go down in history as a failed attack by a domestic terrorist militia group that resulted in all gun owners who dared speak of the excesses of government being branded as terrorists (just what this corrupt overreaching tyrannical government wants), OR it will go down in history as the establishing of a line drawn in the sands of an agonizing struggle between freedom and subjugation that was never erased and led to the liberation of the citizens of the USA and the re-establishment of a free Constitutional Republic.
Which of these accounts is written in the annals of time depends on you and me. It totally depends upon whether we breathe a sigh of relief that we do not have to be distracted by the saga in Burs anymore and sink back into comfortable apathy as we continue to play the game of politics to see who can insult the others' candidate with the most vitriol and 'damaging evidence,' OR if we pick up OUR phones and OUR pens and sound a certain call for the end of this government's overreach and abuse of its people.
What are you going to do in the aftermath of the Burns. Oregon Challenge of 2016? In the aftermath of a good man making the ultimate sacrifice for his (our) country?
Just pretend nothing happened here?

 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Just one more thing...from Ammon Bundy. 
Ammon Bundy – Malheur Wildlife Refuge Case
01.28.2016 – AMMON’S STATEMENT
My message still remains. Turn yourselves in and do not use physical force. Use the national platform we have to continue to defend liberty through our constitutional rights in an Article 3 Court with an Article 3 judge.
America must understand where we are at. We must make a choice now between freedom or force. Are we going to live free?
I will not abandon all that we have accomplished in the name of liberty for the sake of my own personal freedom. We must choose the path of liberty which comes with freedom of choice. People must not be okay with what is going on.
I am committed to freedom not force. Freedom not force. We are done with the culture of force. We are done with the government pointing guns at us to enforce their will upon the people. This is not liberty. This is not America.
As much as I desire to see my own babies and my wife and to be the loving husband and caring father for my six children, and to be home with them caring for their needs and holding them in my arms, I must not desire this at the cost of freedom. I want to make sure the American people understand that we have a duty in our situation to further the defense of our God given rights.
The world is listening. We will use the criminal discovery process to obtain information and government records. We will continue to educate the American people of the injustices that are taking place. We can do this through an Article 3 Court in front of an Article 3 judge. This is the Constitution. And it is ours to use and we will use it.
When we were detained, we were traveling to Grant County to educate those people of their individual rights. We were prepared with computers, PA systems and projectors. We have been branded as armed occupiers. But for weeks we have spent endless hours visiting the people in Harney County and surrounding counties presenting to them solutions and choices for them to make. We were being very successful in educating people and getting them to move towards freedom. At the time that we were gaining momentum through education. For this the government once again chose force that turned lethal.
We only had guns for our protection and never once pointed them at another individual or had any desire to do so. The people have a right to bear arms for their own protection. We never wanted bloodshed. We verbalized this many, many times and we continue to do so.
I mourn Lavoy’s death. Lavoy was a man who put other’s needs and safety before his own. After we were arrested, the FBI agents that transported us said that Lavoy’s shooting would have been recorded on video. We are anxiously waiting to review this video.
Questions must be answered.
The choice is ours. Are we going to stand for freedom or are we going to fall by force.
Statement by Lisa Bundy, Ammon’s Wife – 1/28/2016
Lisa made a statement (audio M4A) ay asking those remaining at the refuge to please go home.She has heard from Ammon and agrees.
FULL TEXT:
This is Lisa Bundy, Ammon Bundy’s wife. I spoke with Ammon’s lawyers yesterday and heard from his voice that those were his instructions: he wants people to go home; to go to their families.
STATEMENT BY AMMON BUNDY – 1/27/2016
First I want to address my beloved friend Lavoy Finnicum. Lavoy is one of the greatest men and greatest patriots I have ever seen. His love for this country ran deep through the blood he gave yesterday. And I mourn for him and his family. I’m praying for you fervently in every prayer.
We will have more to say later but right now I am asking the federal government to allow the people at the refuge to go home without being prosecuted.
To those remaining at the refuge, I love you. Let us take this fight from here. Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is ours for now in the courts. Please go home.
Being in the system, we are going to take this opportunity to answer the questions on Art. 1, Section 8, Cause 17 of the United States Constitution regarding rights of statehood and the limits on federal property ownership. Thank you and god bless America.
END OF STATEMENT

 
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2016-01-29 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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musikmaker - 2016-01-29 11:46 AM
Bear - 2016-01-29 10:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
That looks correct until you realize that they were already shooting...the windshield was shot out when they were approaching the road block, a leo stepped in front of the vehicle, shot and Lavoy then drove off the road, he was braking prior to that, and they DID stop before and that's when the shooting started & why they fled.

He did not exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand as he would have if his intent was to kill and/or be killed. IF he tried to go for a gun it was after they already shot him...it's very possible he reached for his stomach because he was shot in the stomach. He likely figured that since they were going to kill him anyhow then he might try to take one with him...

Those that knew him said, and there are pictures to show, that he carried his gun on his right hip and never went to meetings armed.

It'll get spun however to keep the public from getting upset anyhow.

I'm still very appalled that anyone, anywhere, any race could be shot without an absolute life or death threat being made.

hmmm...guess that's just me!


 

Yep he could have already been shot and just reaching for his side, but he could have just droped to the ground, just so sad all the way around..And just a waste of life..  
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Katie's
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 

YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.
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ThreeCorners
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2016-01-29 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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Katie's - 2016-01-29 12:07 PM
Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.

 There is a link to a petition on behalf of the Hammonds posted I think on pg. 5. We should all be signing. I saw Rep. Greg Walden addressed the House on this very issue. He gave a great speech and it's so good to see a elected speaking on behalf of "We the people" of rural America. 
 
Also, everyone should go to youtube and type in LaVoy Finecum. There are alot of video's he himself put up from his ranch prior to this whole occupation deal. The out of control rogue agency of BLM has been harrassing him and his ranch for a very long time also.
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NJJ
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2016-01-29 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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Katie's - 2016-01-29 12:07 PM
Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.

 They were NOT there to "help" the Hammonds....they were there to further their OWN agenda with the government.....In fact, the Hammonds didn't want their "help".....see excerpt from story early on ..... IF they truly wanted to help the Hammonds, they would have been working to raise money so that they (Hammonds) don't have to sell their ranch.......

But the Hammonds said they don't want help from Bundy's group.
"Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney, W. Alan Schroeder, wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.

 
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cyount2009
Reg. Apr 2012
Posted 2016-01-29 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Southtxponygirl - 2016-01-29 11:58 AM

musikmaker - 2016-01-29 11:46 AM
Bear - 2016-01-29 10:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
That looks correct until you realize that they were already shooting...the windshield was shot out when they were approaching the road block, a leo stepped in front of the vehicle, shot and Lavoy then drove off the road, he was braking prior to that, and they DID stop before and that's when the shooting started & why they fled.

He did not exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand as he would have if his intent was to kill and/or be killed. IF he tried to go for a gun it was after they already shot him...it's very possible he reached for his stomach because he was shot in the stomach. He likely figured that since they were going to kill him anyhow then he might try to take one with him...

Those that knew him said, and there are pictures to show, that he carried his gun on his right hip and never went to meetings armed.

It'll get spun however to keep the public from getting upset anyhow.

I'm still very appalled that anyone, anywhere, any race could be shot without an absolute life or death threat being made.

hmmm...guess that's just me!


 

Yep he could have already been shot and just reaching for his side, but he could have just droped to the ground, just so sad all the way around..And just a waste of life..  

I am not standing on either side at this point, you can consider me a fence chicken from here BUT if he was shot, before he reached for his waist/stomach/shoulder what have you, it is very likely dropping to his knees was not the first response he would have had and placing his hand over his wound is a very likely scenario. People just like animals do weird and unpredictable things when they are wounded, especially if they are wounded by surprise. Again I don't know, I wasn't there and there is no audio to go along with the video but I could not blame a man who covers a wound instead of dropping to his knees if that is in fact the correct scenario.

To me he looked very confused and frazzled when he exited the vehicle. He SHOULD have hit the ground at that point but I am sure his emotions were high. I am sorry he lost his life standing up for what he believed to be right. I am sure he did not die in vein. I am guessing the stances that will ensue will be many and great.

There are a lot of pieces of this that just don't make any sense to me, like the sheriff supposedly being at the meeting waiting on them and actually being at the road block. Deep down I feel like they were ambushed, that I am almost sure, was he shot in cold blood? I just don't know but sure didn't like what I saw in the statement from the FBI Special Agent, and hearing someone say there was a K-9 there makes it even more suspicious.

A part me wants to believe they made an example out of him, the other part of me wants to stand behind the LEO, they have orders to follow, they had to assume he was armed. (I read somewhere in this thread that someone had mentioned he never went to a meeting armed, he could have arrived there with a pistol and simply left it in the truck.) I am also wondering why the dash cam or body cam (if they had them) videos haven't been released yet? Why only this video that is so far away it's hard to see detail?



Edited by cyount2009 2016-01-29 12:25 PM
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2016-01-29 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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cyount2009 - 2016-01-29 12:23 PM

Southtxponygirl - 2016-01-29 11:58 AM

musikmaker - 2016-01-29 11:46 AM
Bear - 2016-01-29 10:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
That looks correct until you realize that they were already shooting...the windshield was shot out when they were approaching the road block, a leo stepped in front of the vehicle, shot and Lavoy then drove off the road, he was braking prior to that, and they DID stop before and that's when the shooting started & why they fled.

He did not exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand as he would have if his intent was to kill and/or be killed. IF he tried to go for a gun it was after they already shot him...it's very possible he reached for his stomach because he was shot in the stomach. He likely figured that since they were going to kill him anyhow then he might try to take one with him...

Those that knew him said, and there are pictures to show, that he carried his gun on his right hip and never went to meetings armed.

It'll get spun however to keep the public from getting upset anyhow.

I'm still very appalled that anyone, anywhere, any race could be shot without an absolute life or death threat being made.

hmmm...guess that's just me!


 

Yep he could have already been shot and just reaching for his side, but he could have just droped to the ground, just so sad all the way around..And just a waste of life..  

I am not standing on either side at this point, you can consider me a fence chicken from here BUT if he was shot, before he reached for his waist/stomach/shoulder what have you, it is very likely dropping to his knees was not the first response he would have had and placing his hand over his wound is a very likely scenario. People just like animals do weird and unpredictable things when they are wounded, especially if they are wounded by surprise. Again I don't know, I wasn't there and there is no audio to go along with the video but I could not blame a man who covers a wound instead of dropping to his knees if that is in fact the correct scenario.

To me he looked very confused and frazzled when he exited the vehicle. He SHOULD have hit the ground at that point but I am sure his emotions were high. I am sorry he lost his life standing up for what he believed to be right. I am sure he did not die in vein. I am guessing the stances that will ensue will be many and great.

There are a lot of pieces of this that just don't make any sense to me, like the sheriff supposedly being at the meeting waiting on them and actually being at the road block. Deep down I feel like they were ambushed, that I am almost sure, was he shot in cold blood? I just don't know but sure didn't like what I saw in the statement from the FBI Special Agent, and hearing someone say there was a K-9 there makes it even more suspicious.

A part me wants to believe they made an example out of him, the other part of me wants to stand behind the LEO, they have orders to follow, they had to assume he was armed. (I read somewhere in this thread that someone had mentioned he never went to a meeting armed, he could have arrived there with a pistol and simply left it in the truck.) I am also wondering why the dash cam or body cam (if they had them) videos haven't been released yet? Why only this video that is so far away it's hard to see detail?


I know we can try to figure this out all day long, like you said we were not there so dont know what happen, just so sad, I'm not taking sides on this either, just saying what my thought's were after watching some of the videos.
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Katie's
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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NJJ - 2016-01-29 10:21 AM
Katie's - 2016-01-29 12:07 PM
Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.
 They were NOT there to "help" the Hammonds....they were there to further their OWN agenda with the government.....In fact, the Hammonds didn't want their "help".....see excerpt from story early on ..... IF they truly wanted to help the Hammonds, they would have been working to raise money so that they (Hammonds) don't have to sell their ranch.......



But the Hammonds said they don't want help from Bundy's group.

"Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney, W. Alan Schroeder, wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.


 

My point exactly.  I was using the term 'help' loosely and being sarcastic.
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jenijill
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2016-01-29 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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I just want to say one thing, okay 2.  First the windshield is not shot out. and 2 if he would have left his hands up or just laid down he would still be alive, they didnt shoot him until he dropped his hands down. 
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euchee
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2016-01-29 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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I'm not convinced that he would be alive if he layed down.  So far to me it seems to be a set up amd they wanted him dead.  I also have to wonder if he knew something that they didn't want him telling or if they figure with him dead they get his land.  Just some thoughts that are going on in my head. 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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NJJ - 2016-01-29 11:21 AM
Katie's - 2016-01-29 12:07 PM
Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.
 They were NOT there to "help" the Hammonds....they were there to further their OWN agenda with the government.....In fact, the Hammonds didn't want their "help".....see excerpt from story early on ..... IF they truly wanted to help the Hammonds, they would have been working to raise money so that they (Hammonds) don't have to sell their ranch.......



But the Hammonds said they don't want help from Bundy's group.

"Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney, W. Alan Schroeder, wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.


 

I think it's a good time to ask what you, or anyone else, thinks thier AGENDA is? What exactly do they hope to gain for themselves?
The Hammonds most certaily do support them...don't believe everything the mainstream tells kyou, they came out on the first day of the protest thanking, hugging and grateful for the support, Dwight Hammond said, "This is not about us, this is about America".
The protesters never stopped pushing for the release of the Hammonds nor a 'redress of their grievences'.
Please, many of you said you weren't following this and now you know all about it...from where? Mainstream media.
I hope it doesn't divide the citizens even more...
It's well known (if you look) that the Hammonds were threatened with a tough time in jail if they publicly supported the protesers.
People can be so naive and gullable...don't be that! Don't be too quick to jump to conclusions or form an opinion too soon...thanks, I'm glad we have this forum to discuss and share.

 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 2:23 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Here ya go...it's a couple minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBNC-ZA9OKE&sns=fb

 
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Anniemae
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Common Sense and then some


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Location: So. California
Katie's - 2016-01-29 10:07 AM
Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.

^^  Agree!!

The website  http://www.oregonlive.com has the video zoomed in and slowed way down.  It does get super fuzzy, judge for yourself. 


I see where LEO gave the suspect multiple opportunities to stand down. He choose not to, fully aware LEO had guns drawn and were prepared to shoot.  WTH. 

I think there is a ton of misinformation on this thread, which happens when we depend on biased websites for factual information, when in reality they are just out to spin the truth to suit their own agendas.  What a huge disservice to the very real problem ranchers face.
 
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Anniemae
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Common Sense and then some


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Location: So. California
euchee - 2016-01-29 12:13 PM I'm not convinced that he would be alive if he layed down.  So far to me it seems to be a set up amd they wanted him dead.  I also have to wonder if he knew something that they didn't want him telling or if they figure with him dead they get his land.  Just some thoughts that are going on in my head. 

The deceased rancher was from Arizona.  
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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2016-01-29 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Own It and Move On


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People - regardless of what you think of LaVoy - please consider signing the petition to free the Hammonds.  I don't think there is a way to defend what the BLM has done to them.  At least don't let this death go in vain....research the Hammond's story and do what you can to help.

Consider what the government has done to these people to drive good people to desparate measures.  They're not doing this for fun, they've been prosecuted for years.

Greg Walden addressing the US House

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4ocLdWE90&feature=youtu.be

BLM/Oregon: Judge Grasty's Brother a BLM Agent and scandals of the BLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrSz9xHYW1w&feature=youtu.be

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/what-is-the-oregon-standoff-really-about/
What the Oregon Standoff Is Really About
Forget the Bundys and "terrorism"—the real crime is what federal bullies do to ranchers like the Hammond family.
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The occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Oregon, by a group led by Ammon Bundy—yes, of those Bundys—was supposed to have focused attention on the plight of a rancher family that has been fighting decades-long efforts by federal officials to drive them off their land. Instead, this dramatic act of civil disobedience has done the opposite: amid debates over the Bundy family, their tactics, and ideology, the focus has been taken off the Hammond family, and their struggle to preserve their land and their way of life has been largely obscured.
This is their story.
Dwight Hammond and his wife Susan bought their ranch in 1964. The Hammond ranch consists of 6,000 acres, grazing rights in four areas on public land, and rights at three separate water sources. They live in a small ranch house—a beautiful structure of stone and hand-hewn wood—on the property.
The land sits in Oregon’s Harney Basin, an area first settled at the tail end of the 19th century. While the narrative we are getting in the media depicts the ranchers as despoilers of the land, implacable enemies of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge established by Teddy Roosevelt in 1908, the true history of the region shows that the “cowboys” who lived there and ran as many as 300,000 head of cattle were in fact its best defenders. Without them, there would be no Malheur Wildlife Refuge.
As the cattlemen developed an elaborate irrigation system in order to feed their herds, what had been a huge swampland surrounding Malheur Lake was transformed into rolling meadows, wildlife flocked to the area, and it became a favored spot for migratory birds. In 1913, however, the Oregon state legislature passed the Thompson Act, which authorized anyone who won approval from the Land Board to drain any lake and “reclaim” it for development. Drainage districts were established all over the state, and taxes were extracted from landowners in order to further approved development schemes. The Oregon Swampland Act created a “Reclamation Service,” which surveyed and facilitated the drainage of riparian areas, applying for title to lands owned by the federal government, which would then be turned over to developers who envisioned selling plots for agricultural purposes. (As it turned out, however, the land around Malheur Lake was too salty for crops to grow, but since no one had bothered to investigate, this wasn’t discovered until much later.) In 1913, the year the Thompson Act was passed, there were no fewer than eight attempts to drain Malheur Lake filed with the Reclamation Service.
These efforts were thwarted by the ranchers, represented by the Pacific Livestock Company, who contested the water rights and fought the developers to a standstill. As Nancy Langston puts it in Where Land and Water Meet: A Western Landscape Transformed: “What saved the Malheur Refuge from being destroyed by drainage along with other federal refuges in the region were precisely its tangled water rights and the stubbornness of local ranchers.”
Yet the federal officials who today preside over the refuge don’t remember or don’t care to recall that it was the ranchers who saved the land from being despoiled. Imbued with what can only be described as an imperialistic impulse, the feds have relentlessly sought to expand the refuge, using every method, legal and illegal, to drive them off the land.
As Ammon Bundy explains on his blog, in the 1970s the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) launched their campaign of conquest: ranchers were informed that grazing was inimical to wildlife and had to be reduced, if not eliminated. Out of a total of 53 permits, 32 were revoked; grazing fees were raised sky-high, and many ranchers were forced to give up their land. The irrigation system they had created and which had attracted birds and other wildlife to the area was appropriated by the refuge. While the original refuge established by Teddy Roosevelt included only Malheur Lake, and neither the rivers whose waters flowed into it nor most of the land surrounding it, today it covers some 187,000 acres, completely surrounding the Hammonds’ ranch.
Those who held on, including the Hammonds, were continually pressured to sell, but the hardscrabble ranchers—who had fought the developers, the state politicians, and the forces of nature to preserve their land and their way of life—were not about to surrender to an army of bureaucrats and the urban elites who ran the environmentalist lobby. Their answer was a firm: no way, no how.
As 1980 rolled around, the feds came up with a new battle plan, taking a leaf from the playbook of the Israelis, who have seized Palestine’s water and dole it out in dribs and drabs to their Palestinian helots. The FWS was keen to acquire privately owned land on the nearby Silvies Plain, so the refuge diverted the water, channeling it into Malheur Lake. Water levels rose, soon doubling, and over 30 ranches on the plain were utterly destroyed: homes, barns, and the verdant pastures on which cows once grazed were under water.
This broke the back of the rancher resistance: most came to the FWS and gave their land away for a song. It wasn’t until 1989 that the waters began to recede. By then the entire plain was in the grasping hands of the refuge.
Still the Hammonds refused to sell, and along with a few other holdouts they began to develop a strategy of resistance. Susan Hammond, the matriarch of the family, began to research how the refuge managed its considerable resources. What she discovered was that the ostensible purpose of the refuge—to provide a habitat for birds that might otherwise be endangered—was ill-served by refuge personnel. She dug out a 1975 study conducted by the FWS itself (as Bundy’s blog notes), which showed that the policies pursued by the refuge and allied federal bureaucracies were driving the birds away. It turned out that private lands bordering the refuge provided a haven for four times as many geese and ducks as the federally held lands. Migrating birds turned up their beaks, so to speak, at the refuge and were 13 times more likely to alight and breed on ranchers’ land.
One of the reasons for this is that federal overseers have allowed carp to take over the waters of Malheur Lake and the streams that feed into it. Massive numbers of carp have invaded and destroyed a habitat which once contained grasses and aquatic plants that provided birds and animals with a steady diet. No more. As Oregon Public Broadcasting put it:
Scientists say Malheur Lake once provided expansive habitat for waterfowl and other migratory birds along the Pacific Flyway.
That was before common carp were introduced to the lake. These fish are native to Eurasia. Malheur wildlife biologist Linda Beck says the common carp was brought to the lake as early as the 1920s, likely as a reliable food source for people living in this arid region…
Now the shallow Malheur Lake is mostly brown, open water, free of the plants that provide food, shelter and nesting grounds for the birds… The lake’s estimated carp population runs in the millions.
The refuge, the BLM, and the FWS profit from this disaster by hiring commercial fisherman to come in and catch the carp, which is then sold in areas of the country where immigrant communities for whom carp is a favored foodstuff buy it. Forget the birds: it’s the carp that bring in the money.
Another big problem—one that would come to figure prominently in the Hammonds’ legal problems—is the invasion of junipers, which are crowding out other plant species and turning what were once fields—maintained by ranchers, who regularly cleared the land for grazing—into forests. Junipers suck up water at an amazing rate, and the result is that those fields have now turned into desert. For years, environmentalists objected to cutting down the junipers because it might encourage grazing on “public” lands, and the federal bureaucracy’s “no use” policies encouraged the juniper invasion, which has now conquered over 6 million acres. Finally, the BLM got wise to the problem, but as with the carp invasion, they reacted far too late. This is another reason why the refuge is not popular with the bird population, who are losing their habitat and being driven out—along with the ranchers.
And it isn’t just the junipers that are hogging all the water. In the early 1990s the Hammonds applied for and were granted water rights in an area adjacent to the Refuge by the state authorities. The BLM and FWS went ballistic, with the latter challenging the water rights in Oregon State Circuit Court. They lost—and that’s when the bureaucrats really starting going after the Hammonds.
Not long after being told by a judge to back off, the BLM and FWS fenced off the Hammonds’ water—a brazenly illegal act. The Hammonds struck back, dismantling the fence: the feds called in the Harney County sheriff, who arrested Dwight Hammond. Charged with “disturbing and interfering with federal officials,” a felony, Dwight was jailed for two days. Brought before a federal judge, he was released without bail: the hearing was at first postponed, and then it looks like the government was so embarrassed by the illegal actions of the BLM and FWS that they forgot to schedule another hearing date. The whole matter was dropped. But the feds had sent a message to the Hammonds—that the government would not be bound by the law.
The lawless behavior escalated. The FWS declared that the Hammonds would no longer have access to a road that enabled them to get to the northern reaches of their land: the only road went through the refuge. The road was barricaded, and FWS officials threatened the Hammonds, warning that there would be consequences if they tried to use the road. But that tactic backfired in the feds’ faces when it was discovered that the road was owned by Harney County, not the refuge.
Undeterred, the Energizer Bunnies of the federal bureaucracy revoked the Hammonds’ grazing permit without cause, bypassing any legal procedures. According to Oregon state law, owners of livestock are not required to keep herds within a fence or control their movements. But the law doesn’t apply to vindictive bureaucrats: a federal judge ordered the Hammonds either to fence their land or stop grazing. They were effectively forced to give up grazing on half their land.
This was a major blow: it forced them to sell their ranch in order to feed their cattle. They purchased property with sufficient grass and with grazing rights on “public” land. The government soon counterattacked, however, and the grazing rights were arbitrarily revoked.
When the new owner of the Hammond ranch suffered a heart attack, the Hammonds managed to reacquire it. But their battle was far from over. Indeed, it had just begun.
In early fall 2001, the Hammonds called the local fire department and received permission for a controlled burn on their own property: this is a common method of controlling invasive growth, and in this case it was aimed at getting rid of the junipers that were invading from the neighboring refuge—where little effort had been made to eradicate them—and gaining a foothold on the Hammond ranch. That fire burned out of control onto refuge land; the Hammonds put it out with no help from the BLM or refuge personnel. They didn’t hear from the BLM or any other government agency until charges were brought 13 years later. Remarking on the incident, the judge said:
Well, the damage was juniper trees and sagebrush, and there might have been a hundred dollars [in damages], but it doesn’t really matter. It doesn’t affect the guidelines, and I am not sure how much sagebrush a hundred dollars worth is. But I think … mother nature’s probably taken care of any injury.
The Tri-State Livestock News quotes Susan Hammond as saying:
“We usually called the interagency fire outfit—a main dispatch—to be sure someone wasn’t in the way or that weather wouldn’t be a problem.” Susan said her son Steven was told that the BLM was conducting a burn of their own somewhere in the region the same day, and that they believed there would be no problem with the Hammonds going ahead with their planned fire. The court transcript includes a recording from that phone conversation.
Court testimony from a prosecution witness, a range conservationist, elicited the statement that the burn had “improved the conditions on the BLM property.” Environmentalists had put pressure on the BLM to cease controlled burns, and the conditions on the range had deteriorated, so that not only did the juniper invasion increase but fires that did break out due to lightning or other factors burned much hotter, sterilizing the soil and leading to a profusion of weeds. When the problems became all too apparent, the BLM started a program of controlled burns. According to Erin Maupin, a former BLM watershed specialist and range technician, due to the intermingling of public and private land, “collaborative burns” are much more effective, as opposed to trying to follow property lines. This is precisely what the first fire was all about: not “arson,” but rational land management.
The second fire Dwight and Steven Hammond were charged with starting occurred in 2006: it happened during a lightning storm, and according to Susan Hammond the reason was to protect their home and property: “There was fire all around them that was going to burn our house and all of our trees and everything. The opportunity to set a back-fire was there and it was very successful. It saved a bunch of land from burning.”
According to the feds, a grand total of one acre of federal land was affected, although how this conclusion was reached is hard to say because fires were burning all over the place during the fierce lightning storm. The Hammonds’ neighbor, Ruthie Danielson, confirms this: “Lightning strikes were everywhere, fires were going off,” she said.
The morning after the fire, according to Ammon Bundy’s write-up, BLM agents filed a police report with the Harney County Sheriff’s office, charging Dwight and Steven Hammond with arson. A few days passed without any action on the part of the authorities, until a BLM ranger called Steven and asked to meet with him in the town of Frenchglen “for coffee.” As Steven was leaving the meeting he was intercepted by the sheriff and a BLM ranger, arrested, and told to go back and collect his father, who was also being charged. Both were booked on several charges—essentially the same charges that would be brought five years later, minus the “terrorism” angle. The case was reviewed by the district attorney, who deemed the accusations unworthy of prosecution: all charges were dropped.
In a just world, that would have been the end of the story. In the world we are living in, however, it was the beginning of the end for the Hammonds.
In 2011, the U.S. attorney’s office, responding to agitation from the usual suspects, filed charges against Dwight and Steven Hammond under the Clinton era “Anti-Terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996,” which carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison for doing damage to federal property. The “Death Penalty” part is included because that’s the maximum penalty: the bill was passed in response to the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.
The government brought nine charges against the Hammonds, including several alleged arsons over the years, conspiracy, utilization of aerial surveillance to further a “terrorist” act, and trying to destroy government property including vehicles and fences.
Locals were kept off the jury: some jurors had to drive for close to four hours from Pendleton, 196 miles away. The prosecution was given all the time in the world to make their case: the defense was given a single day, and much testimony was disallowed. However, the testimony of Dwight’s estranged grandson, Dusty Hammond, who was 13 at the time of the fires, and was 24 when he testified, was permitted. Dusty had been having mental problems for some time, and the judge himself admitted that the grandson’s testimony was “unreliable.” Dusty’s testimony was the basis for the government’s assertion that the first fire was started in order to cover up evidence of poaching on federal land: he claimed that he was told to start a fire.
Neither judge nor jury bought this testimony, yet it is being broadcast all over the place as “proof” the Hammonds are malicious “arsonists.”
On June 22, 2012, the jury threw out or deadlocked on all the charges but two—the two fires the Hammonds admitted to setting. In sentencing them, Judge Michael Hogan declined to impose the minimum sentence, which is five years under the “Anti-Terrorism” statute, averring it would have been “grossly disproportionate” to the crime. He remarked that such a sentence would “shock my conscience,” and furthermore contended that Congress never meant to apply the act in cases like this one.
Dwight Hammond was sentenced to three months: Steven was given a year and a day. The sentence was handed down contingent on the understanding that they would not appeal the court’s decision. They were also fined $400,000—this in spite of the judge’s admission that the total damage amounted to about $100. Failure to pay the fine would result in confiscation of their ranch by the BLM, which had been the goal of the government’s long war against the Hammonds all along.
Both served their sentences and returned to the community. But the government wasn’t through with them—not by a long shot.
In June 2014 Refuge Manager Chad Karges, BLM Field Manager Rhonda Karges, his wife, and Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Papagni, who had prosecuted the Hammond case, filed an appeal of the sentencing with the Ninth District Federal Court, demanding that the full sentence of five years mandated by the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act be imposed. With Dwight and Steven out of the way, the ranch would be sure to fall into the government’s hands: failure to pay the $400,000 fine by the end of 2015 would result in confiscation of their ranch. To my knowledge, they’ve only paid half that. Furthermore, the Hammonds were forced to give the BLM the right of first refusal if they ever did sell their ranch in order to pay the fine. In either case, the land-grabbing BLM will have achieved their decades-long goal: seizure of the Hammond ranch.
There is no resentencing in a case of this kind without the approval of the Justice Department: clearly the intent here was to make an example of the Hammonds, to send a message that any resistance to the federal government’s aggressive tactics in their long war against Western ranchers will be mercilessly crushed. The Ninth District judge, one Ann Aiken, got the message and ruled that the Hammonds be returned to jail for the full five year term, minus time already served.
Another factor in the unusual sentencing appeal was the stance of Amanda Marshall, former U.S. attorney for Oregon, who while still in office denounced the original sentence as “unlawful.” It was she who formally authorized the appeal. Marshall has an interesting history: she had never served as a federal prosecutor prior to her appointment by the Obama administration. Her previous employment was as a “children’s advocate” in the Oregon Department of Justice. Prior to that she was a deputy district attorney in Oregon’s Coos County. She resigned her U.S. attorney position last April, claiming to be suffering from “post-traumatic stress disorder.” The “trauma” here was no doubt the scandal surrounding her stalking of Assistant U.S. Attorney Scott M. Kerin, who says she had been bombarding him with unwanted text messages, phone calls, and other communications for over a year. Kerin filed a hostile workplace environment complaint against her, claiming she followed him after work hours, and drove by his house, in addition to sending numerous emails. The Justice Department launched an investigation, withdrawing Marshall’s security clearance and essentially making it impossible for her to continue as U.S. attorney.
A U.S. attorney whose mental stability is at least questionable, a vindictive cabal of government bureaucrats intent on stealing property they have long coveted under color of “law,” and now a howling lynch mob of left-leaning Twitterers, who hate rural folks and especially ranchers who are professed Christians—these are the people who are celebrating the martyrdom of the Hammonds, denouncing them as “arsonists” and “welfare bums” out to steal public land.
While the focus among vaunted “civil libertarians” is the resentencing and mandatory minimums, the fact is that the Hammonds should never have been prosecuted to begin with. Their long agony is a clear case of government persecution motivated by avarice and politics—for this is a warning to anyone who opposes the federal government’s campaign to retain and expand its ownership of huge swathes of Western land. Consider the scope of their Western empire: they currently control more than 80 percent of Nevada; approximately half of California, Utah, Oregon, Idaho, Arizona, and New Mexico; 42 percent of Wyoming; 36 percent of Colorado; and 30 percent of Washington and Montana.
And, as the Hammond case dramatizes, they want more.
The response of the defenders who are rallying around the Hammonds and demanding the privatization of the refuge is an act of civil disobedience that is both heroic and pathetic: the former because it limns what would have been the response of ordinary Americans in better days, and the latter because those days are long gone. I would not be in the least surprised if the feds go in there, guns blazing, while our urban elites and their lower-middle-class imitators dance around the resulting bonfire, just as they did during the Waco massacre.
Justin Raimondo is editorial director of Antiwar.com.
This post has been updated.

 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-29 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Nicknameless


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Anniemae - 2016-01-29 1:29 PM
euchee - 2016-01-29 12:13 PM I'm not convinced that he would be alive if he layed down.  So far to me it seems to be a set up amd they wanted him dead.  I also have to wonder if he knew something that they didn't want him telling or if they figure with him dead they get his land.  Just some thoughts that are going on in my head. 
The deceased rancher was from Arizona.  

Who is also fighting for HIS land...or was, I should say. That's why he was involved in this...he was offering his support & knowledge to FELLOW ranchers.
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Full of Beans
Reg. Aug 2010
Posted 2016-01-29 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



I Drink Whiskey in Boys Shorts


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Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM

As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost.

If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  



If these had been some black punks, then there would already be riots over this incident. It has happened time and again.

I am not certain where I stand on this incident just yet, because there is no clear cut footage. Most of what I have seen is to hard to discern what is actually happening and there is no audio. I want to see actual crime scene photos, real video footage complete with audio. I would be willing to bet that we will never see it though. I won't even speculate as to what went down due to the crummy videos.

I have to ask though. Lavoy has been labeled as a true patriot. Could he perhaps have decided to sacrifice himself to get people to pay attention to what is happening in our country? Had he had laid down quietly for this incident and been taken into custody, what would have come of this situation? Not a whole lot! It would have been a flash in the pan. His death has sparked a lot of interest now. There are going to be a ton of questions that have to be answered and it has forced people to pay attention.



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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2016-01-29 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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NJJ - 2016-01-29 10:21 AM

Katie's - 2016-01-29 12:07 PM
Bear - 2016-01-29 9:24 AM As far as I can tell, this guy was shot by the LEO because it appeared that he might have been making a move toward a shoulder holdster.  Here we have a man who, rightly or wrongly, declared that he preferred to go down in a hail of gunfire rather than go to jail....a man who was felt to be most likely armed.....a man who ran through a roadblock and nearly plunked a LEO while attempting to run through a second.  He exits the vehicle, arms raised, surrounded by LEOs.  He reaches down with his right hand toward his left shoulder/chest.  The LEO has  less than a second to react.  Given these circumstances, it seems to me that the cop acted appropriately.  I cant say that I blame him.  He screwed around and he should have known that he was taking a risk.  If I am surrounded by cops with drawn weapons and am painted with laser dots, I'm going to raise my hands and drop to my knees or lay flat on the ground.......unless I want to take a chance at getting killed.  He screwed around, he gambled, and he lost. If this same scenario had taken place in South Chicago or some ghetto, and if the man had been some black punk, I doubt many people would find fault in the cops shooting him.  

 
YES!  Exactly this  ^^^  Also, this group has elevated this situation so much so that the main reason they were here to ‘help’ has been completely lost in the shuffle.  The men that are having to go BACK to jail after already serving their time – THAT is the sad injustice.

 They were NOT there to "help" the Hammonds....they were there to further their OWN agenda with the government.....In fact, the Hammonds didn't want their "help".....see excerpt from story early on ..... IF they truly wanted to help the Hammonds, they would have been working to raise money so that they (Hammonds) don't have to sell their ranch.......

But the Hammonds said they don't want help from Bundy's group.
"Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney, W. Alan Schroeder, wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.

 

Are you really that gullible? I've been reading and viewing all the material I could about this and what caused it for several weeks now. It was raised in one of those many pieces of material that the "law" threatened the Hammonds with a "tough" time in prison and that something might happen to Susie Hammond. You don't think that is plausible? I think you're unwillingness to listen and accept that there could be something more to this is disappointing. There is 48596165651356516 pieces of material on federal government alphabet men's overreach and lawlessness online. It's not just this one incident or just the last few years. It's been growing and happening to many people over several decades. They are more emboldened than ever because of the current social situation. Nothing makes sense anymore. Down is up. Lie is truth. Black is white.
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