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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 310
Location: North Dakota | TXBO - 2016-03-28 4:49 PM
shakeit0410 - 2016-03-28 4:46 PM..... To those people saying "with out us 3/4D runners, the 1D wouldn't have as much money to win". Well, have you ever thought that if THEY didn't show up and set the 1D pace, YOU wouldn't be in the 3/4D? Maybe YOU would be running the 1D time then, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate the rest of the crowd saying you don't deserve the money you won.
 That makes no sense at all.
maybe try reading it again slower? Surely you know how a 4D works...
the riders that run in the 3/4 D are only in that division based on the time splits set by the winner of the 1D. If the 1D runners stop showing up, the times get slower, and those people that were 3/4D move up. If a 4D runner doesn't have any competition ahead of them and they run the fast times you can **** sure bet they'll be proud of their accomplishment, and wouldn't like anyone below them discrediting them. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
  
| SoDak - 2016-03-28 1:21 PM I don't agree with these races at all so I won't be attending. My thoughts are why should my 1D horse that just placed 3rd in the 1D and outran 200+ horses be rewarded less than my colt that spooked and won the 4D (or just my colt that ran in the 4D in general). Makes 1D horses not as valuable if this were the case everywhere. Yes, I have 1D horses but I also have ones that won't run 1D times but I love running them and think it's great that I have the opportunity to get a check on them but still don't think they deserve more money than the 1D horse.
I understand that way of thinking. Along the same lines, why does your 4D winner deserve a check when those that ran faster times fell in the crack and went home with nothing? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | I sure get tired of reading that if I rode better or worked harder with my horse that we would be winning the 1D. If one of you bonafide 1D runners would like to take my horse and prove that, I'd be all for it. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 442
| OH Boy! I never meant to start anything. I didn't realize there were so many sides regarding this kind of payout. I was just asking what it was. Here in Colorado I have never seen any. And as the new president of our local barrel racing club I just want to try and learn as much as I can. | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | PalominoLuvr2241 - 2016-03-28 3:01 PM OH Boy! I never meant to start anything. I didn't realize there were so many sides regarding this kind of payout. I was just asking what it was. Here in Colorado I have never seen any. And as the new president of our local barrel racing club I just want to try and learn as much as I can.
You didn't start anything, these types of threads pop up every once in a while. You had an honest question; you just got more than you bargained for  | |
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 Saint Stacey
| Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.  | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| SKM - 2016-03-28 6:50 PM
Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.
WOW my slow horse out ran your slow horse. Ya that will work!!!! | |
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 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | SKM - 2016-03-28 4:50 PM
Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.
I dare anyone to try. | |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | SKM - 2016-03-28 6:50 PM Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.
NO KIDDING!! So much to say but....I'm just going to walk away 
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | TXBO - 2016-03-28 5:47 PM
1DSoon - 2016-03-28 4:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?Â
Â
I suppose maybe I'm not as evolved as you are.
but yes I was serious. Did I miss something?
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Location: In my own little world | I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | 1DSoon - 2016-03-28 9:09 PM
TXBO - 2016-03-28 5:47 PM
1DSoon - 2016-03-28 4:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?Â
Â
I suppose maybe I'm not as evolved as you are.
but yes I was serious. Did I miss something?
The incentive to win the 1D should already be there. Why do I need to buy a different horse, spend more money, when I am happy? | |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | IF I had that 1D barrel horse, it would all come down to the math.
Strait up jp, rodeo. 30 entry's. Might pay two holes. Figure out entry fee vs payout.
Progressive BR. Number of entries, percentage of payout.
Equal payout, number of entries. ( the more entries = more payout )
then you attend that event and take home the $$ | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| Silly Filly - 2016-03-28 4:57 PM
I sure get tired of reading that if I rode better or worked harder with my horse that we would be winning the 1D. If one of you bonafide 1D runners would like to take my horse and prove that, I'd be all for it.
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door.
Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!! | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SC Wrangler - 2016-03-29 8:57 AM ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!!
Ditto  | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | ropenrun - 2016-03-29 2:03 AM
I don't care what the format is. Â You enter if you want or you don't. Â And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. Â You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Â Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. Â I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. Â That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. Â And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Â Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Â Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Â Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. Â I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. Â It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. Â I was starting over at the bottom. Â And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. Â And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. Â I don't look at any format as negative. Â If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Â Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. Â It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Â Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Â Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. Â You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Â Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door.
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | What are buy backs? | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Longneck - 2016-03-29 10:46 AM What are buy backs?
Its when you do away with your first run and buy another run. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Southtxponygirl - 2016-03-29 9:08 AM SC Wrangler - 2016-03-29 8:57 AM ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!!
DOUBLE DITTO !!!!!!
It all comes down to "personal" choice. If you don't "like" them, then don't go to them! Barrel racing evolves around the choices that we make....Years ago the WPRA paid very few places but the members p*ffed and moaned until they added paying more places....why should those "bottom" five or six" get paid? Because barrel racing EVOLVES.....like it or not......... | |
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