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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
 
| In case anyone interested. My friend had a muscle biopsy done on her mare for pssm2. Came back positive. Sent in hair analysis for equisec bc as well. Came back negative for EVERY VARIANT they claim to be testing for including pssm2.
I also find it interesting that registered names are required for studies/testing. How can it be unbiased if you suspect a certain bloodline and can easy look online to get pedigree....just saying
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 Saint Stacey
 
| Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events:
I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point. I read that on FB too. Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
Edited by rodeomom3 2018-04-13 7:22 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 141
| Getting VERY interesting indeed. | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| "Science" isn't it wonderful.
Edited by jbhoot 2018-04-13 8:05 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| rodeomom3 - 2018-04-13 7:17 PM
SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
Then publish the BLIND studies with control groups. Put up or shut up I guess is what I'm saying.
His condascending attitude and insinuations about people questioning his test results are nothing short of hypocrisy. If he cared about the welfare of the horse then collaborate with actual drs of veterinarian medicine! | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative. I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails. I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse. I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to. He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
Edited by rodeomom3 2018-04-14 7:48 AM
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Saint Stacey
| rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:27 AM
appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative.  I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails.  I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse.  I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to.  He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.Â
Why would you stop breeding on an unproven theory? They are saying that Midnight is the main one that PSSM traces back to. He was foaled in the early 1900’s. That means we’ve been fighting this for over a century. Nothing has changed other than we are now dissecting how it is passed down and what triggers it. | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative. I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails. I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse. I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to. He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
seems like it would be prudent to test before spending thousands on training for sure. | |
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| VERY Interesting.... | |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | kwanatha - 2018-04-14 4:55 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative.  I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails.  I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse.  I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to.  He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
Â
A lot of people don’t even get a prepurchse exam on a prospect, let alone do a test that has yet to be proven reliable and claims to still be finding new variants .
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 Cotton Balls are the Devil
Posts: 1271
Location: My own little world! | Liana D - 2018-04-15 7:08 PM
kwanatha - 2018-04-14 4:55 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative.  I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails.  I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse.  I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to.  He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
Â
A lot of people don’t even get a prepurchse exam on a prospect, let alone do a test that has yet to be proven reliable and claims to still be finding new variants .
Yes, many people buy a young prospect based off papers alone. MANY.
And what would a typical PPE tell you on a weanling or yearling? Are you getting xrays? bloodwork? what are you asking for in blood work? Or are you just having them trotted off? I don't actually know. I have never done a PPE on a horse so young. Have I bought them? Yes...........but I just bought a baby I liked the look of with papers I likd the look of.
Of course I did not own a PSSM1 prior to last time I bought a weanling from a sale.
Now I can say , I would have a to have a really good reason to buy a baby from a sale. I want a reason to be SURE. Really Sure they they are not PSSM 1, 2, 3, or 4. Been there. Done that. Don't want to buy another T-shirt.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Cashbaby - 2018-04-14 9:57 PM
Liana D - 2018-04-15 7:08 PM
kwanatha - 2018-04-14 4:55 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative.  I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails.  I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse.  I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to.  He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
Â
A lot of people don’t even get a prepurchse exam on a prospect, let alone do a test that has yet to be proven reliable and claims to still be finding new variants .
Yes, many people buy a young prospect based off papers alone. MANY.
And what would a typical PPE tell you on a weanling or yearling? Are you getting xrays? bloodwork? what are you asking for in blood work? Or are you just having them trotted off? I don't actually know. I have never done a PPE on a horse so young. Have I bought them? Yes...........but I just bought a baby I liked the look of with papers I likd the look of.
Of course I did not own a PSSM1 prior to last time I bought a weanling from a sale.
Now I can say , I would have a to have a really good reason to buy a baby from a sale. I want a reason to be SURE. Really Sure they they are not PSSM 1, 2, 3, or 4. Been there. Done that. Don't want to buy another T-shirt.
With what you just said, and Kim's horse testing negative across the board with Paul's' test, you could still buy a horse that tests negative across the board and still have to euthanize the horse due to PSSM which was proven by muscle biopsy.
You may be waiting a long time for a guarantee to buy a horse completely clean of any pssm variants. | |
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Cotton Balls are the Devil
Posts: 1271
Location: My own little world! | cheryl makofka - 2018-04-15 9:11 PM
Cashbaby - 2018-04-14 9:57 PM
Liana D - 2018-04-15 7:08 PM
kwanatha - 2018-04-14 4:55 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative.  I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails.  I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse.  I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to.  He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
Â
A lot of people don’t even get a prepurchse exam on a prospect, let alone do a test that has yet to be proven reliable and claims to still be finding new variants .
Yes, many people buy a young prospect based off papers alone. MANY.
And what would a typical PPE tell you on a weanling or yearling? Are you getting xrays? bloodwork? what are you asking for in blood work? Or are you just having them trotted off? I don't actually know. I have never done a PPE on a horse so young. Have I bought them? Yes...........but I just bought a baby I liked the look of with papers I likd the look of.
Of course I did not own a PSSM1 prior to last time I bought a weanling from a sale.
Now I can say , I would have a to have a really good reason to buy a baby from a sale. I want a reason to be SURE. Really Sure they they are not PSSM 1, 2, 3, or 4. Been there. Done that. Don't want to buy another T-shirt.
With what you just said, and Kim's horse testing negative across the board with Paul's' test, you could still buy a horse that tests negative across the board and still have to euthanize the horse due to PSSM which was proven by muscle biopsy.
You may be waiting a long time for a guarantee to buy a horse completely clean of any pssm variants.
Which is what I am doing basically.
Doing my own research on what is out there, I have bought a horse. But I really want a test that tells me it is okay to buy the horse, before I buy the horse. (Is that wrong?) I am still on the fence on the PSSM 2 testing because I do want it to be proven (also is that wrong?)
My prior horse was PSSM1. I have, what I consider, a dink around horse for now. Because that is what I am willing to spend my money on . Paper wise, I like him. But he is not WOW. I thought I was pretty safe regarding his papers but when I actually did the research, he goes back to PSSM1 suspected horses more times then my actual PSSM1 mare AND he could be PSSM2 and PX. I know nothing about PSSM2/3/4/PX as far as who goes back to what, other then one name that has been thrown around out there. And at this moment in time, I can't remember if this gelding goes back to that name..........forgive me.
But for what we are doing, the 10 year old, dink around gelding is doing fine. I have not seen things that make me want to test, but I will test one of these days. I feed hay, vit/min, salt block for winter and for spring/summer the same but pasture. So far no problems.
I am sensitive because I have had a PSSM1 mare. Clearly she was not a typical barrel horse line but I loved her and she was what I had invested my love, time, energy and money into. First learning what was wrong with her (not just a "mare" attitude" as most people thought) but then getting her on the diet and exercise and finding out that I could just not realistically keep her at the level of work that she needed. Then thinking I would just have a pasture pet for the rest of her life and having a wake up call in 2008 that made that not able to happen. So. I want a test. | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| SKM - 2018-04-14 9:05 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative. I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails. I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse. I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to. He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
Why would you stop breeding on an unproven theory? They are saying that Midnight is the main one that PSSM traces back to. He was foaled in the early 1900’s. That means we’ve been fighting this for over a century. Nothing has changed other than we are now dissecting how it is passed down and what triggers it.
Agree, but I am referring to the type that is proven in the 5 panel and all the many posts I read about people continuing to breed. | |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Maybe, if you’re a person that wants the whole range of tests (PSSM1,2,3,4 Px, etc) you would be better off to buy an aged horse that is a proven performer that has no symptoms. Yes, you’ll pay more, but it might be a more realistic option. (I’m not trying to be a smart a$$)
Even if you got all the testing done, you would need a complete bone scan to check out the skeletal portion ?
I guess it all boils down to what you’re sensitively too ?
I can envision a person doing all the PSSSM testing, feeling confident and then have the horse not be able to perform because of Kissing Spine or something ? (I’ve seen similar scenarios happen :-( )
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Liana D - 2018-04-15 9:10 AM Maybe, if you’re a person that wants the whole range of tests (PSSM1,2,3,4 Px, etc) you would be better off to buy an aged horse that is a proven performer that has no symptoms. Yes, you’ll pay more, but it might be a more realistic option. (I’m not trying to be a smart a$$) Even if you got all the testing done, you would need a complete bone scan to check out the skeletal portion ? I guess it all boils down to what you’re sensitively too ? I can envision a person doing all the PSSSM testing, feeling confident and then have the horse not be able to perform because of Kissing Spine or something ? (I’ve seen similar scenarios happen :-( )
Yep, so many things can take your horse out of competition. Agree it depends on your comfort level and what you are willing to deal with. | |
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 Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM
SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
This is true, they have been recruiting symptomatic/biopsy positive horses that test negative for the known variants for quite awhile. When they first began selling the variant test, they only had P2 & P3 available. When they found P4, they did P4 testing for free for the people who had paid for the P2/P3 testing previously. Perhaps they will offer the same deal when/if they discover more variants? | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 11:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point. I read that on FB too. Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
I'm about 78% positive I have one that is PSSM64 positive.
either that or he's just a wormy dink,,,,,,,you think they would test him for free?
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | Liana D - 2018-04-14 7:08 PM kwanatha - 2018-04-14 4:55 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative. I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails. I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse. I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to. He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet.
A lot of people don’t even get a prepurchse exam on a prospect, let alone do a test that has yet to be proven reliable and claims to still be finding new variants .
This is true. But if you have a colt that is difficult to work with and he has suspect lines it might save you some money to get him tested before spending a small fortune on training to fix an attitude that comes from a place of pain | |
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