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 Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304
  
Location: Texas | barrelracr131 - 2013-11-26 7:54 AM bocephus's mama - 2013-11-26 7:52 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-11-26 7:37 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-11-26 12:33 AM Around here, I don't think I've ever seen an equal payout race.
Like the D system or not, I think overall, it's good for the industry. It gives value to the horses that may not ever have the ability to hit the 1D. It also allows producers to host larger races at better facilities and still make money.
For family-geared organizations, like NBHA and IBRA, it allows kids to measurably work up through the Ds, and maybe still win a little something along the way. Same goes for me as a weekend rider. In addition, it rewards the hard work of those running for points and rewards their dedication with end of year awards.
I think progressive payout is the way to go, personally. The fastest division should pay better. However, the D system, despite its "socialist" overtones (lol) still does more good than harm for the industry. Jmo This sums it up nicely. I don't understand what the fuss is all about, I guess. This is the kind of debate/thread that takes on a life of it's own and always manages to ruffle feathers along the way. Almost everyone agrees that outside of rodeo, the D system has been a godsend. You pay more for the placings in the faster divisions. Basic, common sense, happy medium. Most people agree that equal payouts for each "D" is ridiculous. That's why you almost never see them.
Equal payout is a totally different story though BUT at the end of the day, we all have a choice to enter or stay home.
Also, agree with highlights
I meant to point out that I wasn't referring to you specifically calling it that but I didn't want to search through the entire post (I mean, I'm pretty sure I know what it says) to grab someone actually meaning it. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Gotcha, no worries |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Wow it lives on.  |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
 
Location: southeast Texas | Around here, it "seams" the equal payout are drawing larger turnouts. One club implemented, over 100 entries, extra $$ was added to the 1D pot.
I can see where one would think the "D" system is socialist,,,,, unlike socialism we don't have to participate. And are not fined if we don't enroll, oops, I mean enter.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| roxieannie - 2013-11-26 8:33 AM
Around here, it "seams" the equal payout are drawing larger turnouts. One club implemented, over 100 entries, extra $$ was added to the 1D pot.
I can see where one would think the "D" system is socialist,,,,, unlike socialism we don't have to participate. And are not fined if we don't enroll, oops, I mean enter....
"seems"
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM
SHORTHORSE - 2013-11-25 3:09 PM Sooo if all the 2-5d horses don't deserve to get paid the same even though it cost us the same to entry fee, fuel, feed, vet bills, maybe we just need to stay home and then the 1D horses can run against each other for a WHOLE LOT less money. I am a supporter of equal payouts. There are more horses that run in the 2-5d at a big race than in the 1D. JMO
With that logic....1D horses should cost/be worth the same as 5D horses.
And everyone should get a participation trophy just for showing up, even if you knocked a barrel.  |
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Veteran
Posts: 164
Location: Williamsville, MO | Wow i have never even heard of this, we dont have these in MO/AR where im from, here the fastest horse wins the most money, then a little less as you make it down the Ds. I sure dont have the fastest horse but i believe the fastest horse deserves more money...just my opinion though :) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
| No way! Horses that run harder have to turn harder. Horses that clock faster are running harder and tinting harder which IS harder on joints. Period! They are usually more fit and the more exercise they get- the more wear and tear. Don't even tell me a 5d horse has the same wear and tear. That's insane!! |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | FlitsTinyCharger - 2013-11-26 9:00 AM No way! Horses that run harder have to turn harder. Horses that clock faster are running harder and tinting harder which IS harder on joints. Period! They are usually more fit and the more exercise they get- the more wear and tear. Don't even tell me a 5d horse has the same wear and tear. That's insane!!
I will buy this argument up to a certain point. BUT not every horse that does not run in the 1D is just going out there and only giving 80% or 70% or 50% of their capability. There are plenty of horses that will never make the 1D that give 110% on each and every run day in and day out year after year. I am not convinced that .5 seconds makes that much difference in the wear and tear if they are pusing their bodies up to their maximum ability. |
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | FlitsTinyCharger - 2013-11-26 10:00 AM
No way! Horses that run harder have to turn harder. Horses that clock faster are running harder and tinting harder which IS harder on joints. Period! They are usually more fit and the more exercise they get- the more wear and tear. Don't even tell me a 5d horse has the same wear and tear. That's insane!!
You are thinking in simple terms, very simple terms. What makes you think a horse that clocks in the lower Ds' is not running and or working hard? Speed and or lack of it does not equate soundness or lack of soundness.
That is bull on the fitness level of the 1D horse verses the lower D horse. I know plenty of lower D horses that are well fitted and conditioned probably more so than some of the 1D horses. When I am at my peak of fitness, I still do not have the ability to clock well in a 5K. I train and work just as hard for a 5K as the person that finishes first. I am also probably one of the most unsound in the race.
I will debate this with anyone in more specification. I have the equine background to do so and I am in that mood.  |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | *robin* - 2013-11-26 9:40 AM FlitsTinyCharger - 2013-11-26 10:00 AM No way! Horses that run harder have to turn harder. Horses that clock faster are running harder and tinting harder which IS harder on joints. Period! They are usually more fit and the more exercise they get- the more wear and tear. Don't even tell me a 5d horse has the same wear and tear. That's insane!! You are thinking in simple terms, very simple terms. What makes you think a horse that clocks in the lower Ds' is not running and or working hard? Speed and or lack of it does not equate soundness or lack of soundness. That is bull on the fitness level of the 1D horse verses the lower D horse. I know plenty of lower D horses that are well fitted and conditioned probably more so than some of the 1D horses. When I am at my peak of fitness, I still do not have the ability to clock well in a 5K. I train and work just as hard for a 5K as the person that finishes first. I am also probably one of the most unsound in the race. I will debate this with anyone in more specification. I have the equine background to do so and I am in that mood.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Gunner11 - 2013-11-26 8:41 AM ozcancrasher13 - 2013-11-25 3:35 PM SHORTHORSE - 2013-11-25 3:09 PM Sooo if all the 2-5d horses don't deserve to get paid the same even though it cost us the same to entry fee, fuel, feed, vet bills, maybe we just need to stay home and then the 1D horses can run against each other for a WHOLE LOT less money. I am a supporter of equal payouts. There are more horses that run in the 2-5d at a big race than in the 1D. JMO
And everyone should get a participation trophy just for showing up, even if you knocked a barrel.
No, they don't deserve the same payout. They are getting a check by luck of the lottery, not because they actually beat anyone. The Ds are a great system to get people to enter that would never earn a check otherwise, but at the end of the day, it's a HORSE RACE.... Fastest horse deserves the most money.
There's no skill involved in hitting a time exactly 1 1/2-2 sec off of what won. You just got lucky that day. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It doesn't matter to me anyway. Just wait till my camel returns from the trainer. I'm going to enter him in futurities next year and he's going to kick everyone's ass, regardless of the payout scheme. Abdu is already smoking the pattern with those long legs. He's smooth as silk.
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-26 9:57 AM
It doesn't matter to me anyway. Just wait till my camel returns from the trainer. I'm going to enter him in futurities next year and he's going to kick everyone's ass, regardless of the payout scheme. Abdu is already smoking the pattern with those long legs. He's smooth as silk.
Is he prone to saddle fit problems? Barefoot or shod? How does he handle mud as opposed to sand? |
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 Max is Back
Posts: 6795
Location: Flat Rock,IL | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-26 9:57 AM
It doesn't matter to me anyway. Just wait till my camel returns from the trainer. I'm going to enter him in futurities next year and he's going to kick everyone's ass, regardless of the payout scheme. Abdu is already smoking the pattern with those long legs. He's smooth as silk.
I'm looking forward to seeing you on the Barrel magazine cover! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
| I said a 5D horse, not a 2d horse, vs a 1d horse. Big difference. And they may be just as fit so that CAN be taken out of the equation. |
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 Left Out
Posts: 6795
Location: Silex Missouri | I am not going to read all the pages. But it is a barrel RACE. This gets me worked up because it reminds me of all the little kids who get a trophy even if they aren't on the winning team. It's a competition. There are winners and there are losers. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I made up a song for this thread
Ready
This is the thread that doesn't end
Yes it goes on and on my friend
Some people started commenting not knowing what it was
and they'll continue commenting forever just because
this is the thread that doesn't end.... |
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Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | DD2012 - 2013-11-26 8:39 AM roxieannie - 2013-11-26 8:33 AM Around here, it "seams" the equal payout are drawing larger turnouts. One club implemented, over 100 entries, extra $$ was added to the 1D pot.
I can see where one would think the "D" system is socialist,,,,, unlike socialism we don't have to participate. And are not fined if we don't enroll, oops, I mean enter.... "seems"
It's a southern thang...... :) |
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | FlitsTinyCharger - 2013-11-26 11:19 AM
I said a 5D horse, not a 2d horse, vs a 1d horse. Big difference. And they may be just as fit so that CAN be taken out of the equation.
Au contraire, hardly a big difference. We are discussing seconds, one sixitieth of a minute. |
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