|
|
 Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
  
Location: Arizona | 1DSoon - 2018-04-16 9:42 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 11:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
either that or he's just a wormy dink,,,,,,,you think they would test him for free?Â
No. Wait until you are 96.4% positive. I'm sure there are loads of feeds, supplements, and training equipment that can help you out in the meantime. | |
| | |
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
 
| Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point. I read that on FB too. Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
No one is doubting that this is true but it brings in to question the value of his current testing if he is getting false negatives. | |
| | |
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I dont know much about what all this Pssm stuff is, just know its a hard thing for these horses to go threw and think goodness I dont have one.. Theres a good write up in the Barrel Horse news, about PSSM called All Tied UP, the Monday morning Sickness.. I know that theres many types of this PSSM but this is a pretty intersting read.. Its in the Feb. Issue. If anybody was intersted ..I know this has been around longer then I have been around, I knew of a mare when I was in my teens that had this Monday Morning sickness and she did die from it because nobody knew anything about it 40 + years ago, now we got people willing to study this condition so one day hopefully they can find a way to end this..  | |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 11:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
He has also gotten false positives. There was one lady who tested sire, dam and Colt. Sire and dam were negative all the way, Colt was positive for one.
So I ask how many inaccurate results are there, no way to tell. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| cheryl makofka - 2018-04-15 12:27 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 11:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
He has also gotten false positives. There was one lady who tested sire, dam and Colt. Sire and dam were negative all the way, Colt was positive for one.
So I ask how many inaccurate results are there, no way to tell.
Because there's no transparency with Equisec.
Something else to note. This company doesn't have ALL bloodline hair and blood to test so not part of his database but he does have for Streakin Six and Sunfrost. I believe hes targeting certain bloodlines and how interesting one of those is Streakin Six who's semen has been released for breeding ?? | |
| | |
  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 9:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
They aren't false negatives. The horse doesn't have the known/testable disorders. They have something Equiseq is trying to find the gene for. There's a big difference between what you said and what I just said. | |
| | |
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | cheryl makofka - 2018-04-15 10:27 AM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 11:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
He has also gotten false positives. There was one lady who tested sire, dam and Colt. Sire and dam were negative all the way, Colt was positive for one.
So I ask how many inaccurate results are there, no way to tell.
I'm the person you're talking about and you have it wrong. I wish you would STOP inventing stuff.
I put 4 horses in the STUDY EquiSeq offered to people for FREE. Original results were the colt was P2/P2. The sire is untested to this day. The mare was tested at the same time as the colt and is n/n for P2. I never said anything about the rest of her testing or the colts testing. The only ONE that was incorrect was P2. Paul went back to the lab and found out they were not doing the test correctly which caused the n half of the colts allele to read positive instead of negative. The other half of his allele was correct. That lab no longer uses the procedure they used on my colt. THAT'S kind of the point of a study in developing tests. Trial and error. My colt was the error that had them correct the test to read true.
They now use the test that resulted in the correct result on my colt on all the new requests. I've since tested 9 more horses and I have found no more "mistakes". I believe the testing is accurate. | |
| | |
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| OregonBR - 2018-04-16 1:44 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 9:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
They aren't false negatives. The horse doesn't have the known/testable disorders. They have something Equiseq is trying to find the gene for. There's a big difference between what you said and what I just said.
I get it, you are stating it correctly but that still brings you back to the value of the testing at this current time | |
| | |
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | iloveequine40 - 2018-04-15 10:33 AM
cheryl makofka - 2018-04-15 12:27 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 11:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
He has also gotten false positives. There was one lady who tested sire, dam and Colt. Sire and dam were negative all the way, Colt was positive for one.
So I ask how many inaccurate results are there, no way to tell.
Because there's no transparency with Equisec.
Something else to note. This company doesn't have ALL bloodline hair and blood to test so not part of his database but he does have for Streakin Six and Sunfrost. I believe hes targeting certain bloodlines and how interesting one of those is Streakin Six who's semen has been released for breeding ??
BWAHAHAHAHA That's utterly ridiculous. The database is called Bridge Equine. It's being supported by someone entirely different and unconnected to EquiSeq.
I have an FG daughter that is clean. If what you said were true, she wouldn't have come back clean.
Edited by OregonBR 2018-04-16 2:12 PM
| |
| | |
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | rodeomom3 - 2018-04-16 11:56 AM
OregonBR - 2018-04-16 1:44 PM
rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 9:17 AM
Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses.
They aren't false negatives. The horse doesn't have the known/testable disorders. They have something Equiseq is trying to find the gene for. There's a big difference between what you said and what I just said.
I get it, you are stating it correctly but that still brings you back to the value of the testing at this current time
It's value to me at this time is great. There MAY be more to discover, but I'm doing the best I can with the information available at this time. That's all any of us can do. When we know more, we will do better.
| |
| | |
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| OregonBR - 2018-04-16 2:13 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-16 11:56 AM OregonBR - 2018-04-16 1:44 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-15 9:17 AM Whinny19 - 2018-04-15 10:40 AM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 6:17 PM SKM - 2018-04-13 7:09 PM Well...isn’t this an interesting turn of events: I’m going to put this out there for you to decide on this. As everyone knows, my mare was diagnosed PSSM2 with a muscle biopsy by Dr. Valberg. She was a very sick horse and put down. I decided to send in her hair and blood for DNA and genetic testing to this company, EquiSeq who claims to be able to test for PSSM2 and it variants. I received my results from this company, EquiSeq, and this test showed her to be n/n across the board. She was not negative by a proven test, a muscle biopsy. Now you can be the judge on a non validated test verses a validated test. I was for this testing a few weeks ago as I thought it was absolute. I can’t stand behind it at this point.  I read that  on FB too.  Paul’s response: We have been recruiting horses with symptoms of PSSM2 that test negative for P2, P3, and P4 for some time. Everyone who is a regular on the forum knows this. Besides breeds apparently free of P2, P3, and P4 (like Icelandics ), we have identified a number of horses, including Quarter Horses, that are positive for PSSM2 by muscle biopsy and negative for P2, P3, and P4. We have completed whole genome sequencing on some of these horses and are searching for additional variants in these horses. They aren't false negatives. The horse doesn't have the known/testable disorders. They have something Equiseq is trying to find the gene for. There's a big difference between what you said and what I just said. I get it, you are stating it correctly but that still brings you back to the value of the testing at this current time It's value to me at this time is great. There MAY be more to discover, but I'm doing the best I can with the information available at this time. That's all any of us can do. When we know more, we will do better.
 . There is the possibility that there are other variants or there may not be and there is something else going on. Either way, I do hope concrete answers are found.
Edited by rodeomom3 2018-04-16 2:31 PM
| |
| | |
 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bump | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on. I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post. i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| kwanatha - 2018-04-14 4:55 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-14 5:27 AM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 4:18 PM rodeomom3 - 2018-04-12 3:42 PM appycowgirl - 2018-04-12 2:23 PM Yes, that's very true. Like I said, the PX gene, I'm not as concerned about because of the 7 horses of mine that are N/PX, 6 of them I've extensively rode or are still riding. The 6 horses are all descendants of my one mare Plaudit Starynite who tested out as N/PX. I've ridden and shown 3 of her daughters and we've done everything from trail rides that have been 15 to 20 miles long, to helping friends work cows to performance stuff such as barrels and done it into their teenage years with no problems. I'm currently running one of Star's grand daughters and she is 11 this year. Now, the P2, P3 and P4, I am eliminating that from my program as I strongly believe it is a problem. Currently everything that I'm breeding is P2, P3 and P4 negative. I didn’t say you said it, I stated Slipperyslope did and that is where this “debate” goes off the rails. I agree, responsible breeding needs to take place so this terrible disease can be erradicated, everyone is in this for the good of the horse. I wish people would stop breeding any type of PSSM horse, although their horse might be symptom free, you don’t know what the next generations might have to deal with. What worries me and scares me the most are the 5 panel purists because they really have no clue as to how bad this is all going to get if we decide to quit breeding everything that has a bad gene. If we did that, every record that has been broke in the barrel pen or on the race track, we'll take all of that away and have to completely rebuild plus limit the gene pool severely for the bloodlines that everyone wants. The one thing I will say is that there has been specific favorite bloodlines that everyone has clamored for and maybe we need to search outside the box a little bit to infuse some new blood to help out with the situation, but I know a lot of folks will always go for the tried and true.
As to Paul just answering the question, he had a choice and did not have to. He had to have known him putting that out there would just stir the pot and serve no good. His response to Kelly’s post that his tests showed her horse negative when a peer reviewed and approved muscle biopsy showed the horse was positive was that there are more variants he is testing for-it is still a work in progress which is why the Fulton’s declined his offer-the test is not absolute, at best it is currently just a tool and we don’t know how effective this tool is yet. You can test for everything under the sun, get the green light on all of it and spend the money in training to end up putting one down for some freak deal. Nothing is absolute. Nothing and then while you are at it stop breeding any HERDA, HYPP, GBED,MH, all of these have been around for years
Edited by Easy Rider 2019-02-25 9:38 AM
| |
| | |
Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 8:31 AM
Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on.
I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post.
i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize
This ^^^^ is a great point. If the PSSM problem started 20 generations back with Yellow Jacket there’s no way you’re going to eradicate it. It really doesn’t matter what variant they have, it becomes a management problem. At my place Tweaking the diet, more riding and usually some extra vet care usually keeps things under control. Being able to label it with PSSM and a number would do me (or my customer) absolutely no good. The HYPP and HERDA test is a pretty good example of how people ignore test results. There are some people actually seeking out n/HERDA horses. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| Liana D - 2019-02-25 9:36 AM Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 8:31 AM Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on. I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post. i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize This ^^^^ is a great point. If the PSSM problem started 20 generations back with Yellow Jacket there’s no way you’re going to eradicate it. It really doesn’t matter what variant they have, it becomes a management problem. At my place Tweaking the diet, more riding and usually some extra vet care usually keeps things under control. Being able to label it with PSSM and a number would do me (or my customer) absolutely no good. The HYPP and HERDA test is a pretty good example of how people ignore test results. There are some people actually seeking out n/HERDA horses. Right! And with every thing have at our fingertips now, you can just change a few things up and it makes a world of difference. Once you look at the diet of not only your horse, but yourself, your dogs even, it amazing the difference cutting sugar and carbs out does. I agree! HYPP and HERDA being labeled haven’t slowed those lines down any either. I just wonder how many “variants “ they are going to come up with on all these. I like how you think Liana D I come from a long line of health nightmares via family tree, so expecting perfection from horses is crazy. We all have something
Edited by Easy Rider 2019-02-25 9:48 AM
| |
| | |
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 6:31 AM
Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on.
I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post.
i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize
That's true. These genetic disorders aren't anything new. But Point 1. Some horses become virtually useless and some have to be euthanized because of these muscle disorders. P1 is sugar/starch intolerance. Very different cause from the P2 variants and different gene involved. The P2 variants (about 9 of them now) are muscle wasting disorders. The remedy is quality protein that contains all the essential amino acids. In the absence of enough of the correct protein, muscles break down and are unable to rebuild. The muscles breaks down showing as a poor topline and lack of muscle causes weakness; similar to human musclular dystrophy. P1 IMO is easy to avoid. P2 variants not so much. P2 is rampant in thoroughbreds and running bred horses. Point 2. PLUS it gets worse the older an animals gets. People who run futurity horses may not think it's a big deal. Some horses flunk out of the program so what. Once the futurity year is over, they sell the horse. They get passed on to a newby or an amatuer rider and that's when the problems become noticable or insurmountable. They think it's them or there's a lameness. A lot of vets don't know what this is. They're more than happy to take your money for diagnotics and injections. Point 3. If you knew they existed wouldn't you want to know so you didn't spend literally thousands of dollars trying to locate and improve a horses lameness or behavior issues from an unknown cause? Sometimes changing diet helps. Sometimes it doesn't. The information isn't all in yet. Symptoms may have something to do with the way protein, Vit E and other vitamins and minerals are metabolized. Point 4. People who breed horses need to be as educated as possible on breaking news about genetics. Instead of denial, people need to at least educate themselves. If you don't want to test, don't. But more and more people are demanding it before they purchase. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| OregonBR - 2019-02-25 10:25 AM
Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 6:31 AM
Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on.
I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post.
i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize
That's true. These genetic disorders aren't anything new. But
Point 1. Some horses become virtually useless and some have to be euthanized because of these muscle disorders. P1 is sugar/starch intolerance. Very different cause from the P2 variants and different gene involved. The P2 variants (about 9 of them now) are muscle wasting disorders. The remedy is quality protein that contains all the essential amino acids. In the absence of enough of the correct protein, muscles break down and are unable to rebuild. The muscles breaks down showing as a poor topline and lack of muscle causes weakness; similar to human musclular dystrophy. P1 IMO is easy to avoid. P2 variants not so much. P2 is rampant in thoroughbreds and running bred horses.
Point 2. PLUS it gets worse the older an animals gets. People who run futurity horses may not think it's a big deal. Some horses flunk out of the program so what. Once the futurity year is over, they sell the horse. They get passed on to a newby or an amatuer rider and that's when the problems become noticable or insurmountable. They think it's them or there's a lameness. A lot of vets don't know what this is. They're more than happy to take your money for diagnotics and injections.
Point 3. If you knew they existed wouldn't you want to know so you didn't spend literally thousands of dollars trying to locate and improve a horses lameness or behavior issues from an unknown cause? Sometimes changing diet helps. Sometimes it doesn't. The information isn't all in yet. Symptoms may have something to do with the way protein, Vit E and other vitamins and minerals are metabolized.
Point 4. People who breed horses need to be as educated as possible on breaking news about genetics. Instead of denial, people need to at least educate themselves. If you don't want to test, don't. But more and more people are demanding it before they purchase.
I get what you are saying, but that’s Some not all. Wonder what stats are out there as far as to a true number put down DUE to it. When you talk to girls that have been at the NFR the health issues don’t stop because they make it there. And many past world champions had tied up, had navicular, had been nerved, bled etc. how many of them went to retire to pasture and pass of old age vs die of whatever it was? I would be curious to see the numbers. I do find all your post very informative, thank you for sharing as to the variants and the differences. I guess my point was basically every horse has something and while I believe most breeders are trying to make the best babies they can, somethings were unseen till these tests, unless they surfaced and got diagnosed. I wonder when they will require mares to be tested. With all this said I will test anything I buy, It hasn’t stopped me from buying what I want if I got a positive on anything, it just makes me educate myself to be proactive | |
| | |
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 8:36 AM
OregonBR - 2019-02-25 10:25 AM
Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 6:31 AM
Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on.
I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post.
i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize
That's true. These genetic disorders aren't anything new. But
Point 1. Some horses become virtually useless and some have to be euthanized because of these muscle disorders. P1 is sugar/starch intolerance. Very different cause from the P2 variants and different gene involved. The P2 variants (about 9 of them now) are muscle wasting disorders. The remedy is quality protein that contains all the essential amino acids. In the absence of enough of the correct protein, muscles break down and are unable to rebuild. The muscles breaks down showing as a poor topline and lack of muscle causes weakness; similar to human musclular dystrophy. P1 IMO is easy to avoid. P2 variants not so much. P2 is rampant in thoroughbreds and running bred horses.
Point 2. PLUS it gets worse the older an animals gets. People who run futurity horses may not think it's a big deal. Some horses flunk out of the program so what. Once the futurity year is over, they sell the horse. They get passed on to a newby or an amatuer rider and that's when the problems become noticable or insurmountable. They think it's them or there's a lameness. A lot of vets don't know what this is. They're more than happy to take your money for diagnotics and injections.
Point 3. If you knew they existed wouldn't you want to know so you didn't spend literally thousands of dollars trying to locate and improve a horses lameness or behavior issues from an unknown cause? Sometimes changing diet helps. Sometimes it doesn't. The information isn't all in yet. Symptoms may have something to do with the way protein, Vit E and other vitamins and minerals are metabolized.
Point 4. People who breed horses need to be as educated as possible on breaking news about genetics. Instead of denial, people need to at least educate themselves. If you don't want to test, don't. But more and more people are demanding it before they purchase.
I get what you are saying, but that’s Some not all. Wonder what stats are out there as far as to a true number put down DUE to it.
When you talk to girls that have been at the NFR the health issues don’t stop because they make it there. And many past world champions had tied up, had navicular, had been nerved, bled etc. how many of them went to retire to pasture and pass of old age vs die of whatever it was? I would be curious to see the numbers.
I do find all your post very informative, thank you for sharing as to the variants and the differences. I guess my point was basically every horse has something and while I believe most breeders are trying to make the best babies they can, somethings were unseen till these tests, unless they surfaced and got diagnosed. I wonder when they will require mares to be tested.
With all this said I will test anything I buy, It hasn’t stopped me from buying what I want if I got a positive on anything, it just makes me educate myself to be proactive
There are no stats, because so few horses are tested. If you want to know what people are dealing with, go to the PSSM Forum on facebook. I try to check in there daily. These are people who are dealing with the worst cases. It's pretty depressing. Some horses have multiple genes where diet is really difficult to get right. Some people have to euthanize because they can no longer take the rollercoaster, they can't afford to keep up with the expense or the horse is doing so poorly the only humane thing to do is let them go. I won't buy anything or breed to anything that's not tested. I was just talking with a lady this weekend that bought a young mare by a well known stallion o/o an untested mare. She sent her to her trainer and they knew right away something was up. Lack of forward impulsion was the main symptom at first. She sold her for a kids horse and she tied up on the new owners. She bought her back to preserve her reputation. Through the course of the investigation, it became known that she had been tested n/P1. It came from the mares mother. Stallion is n/n across the board. So now she's out thousands of dollars for a horse she can't use and won't breed because she has ethics. The sellers she bought the mare from will only refund the purchase price. THEY KNEW before they sold her to my friend. It's a freaking mess. | |
| | |
Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | OregonBR - 2019-02-25 10:25 AM
Easy Rider - 2019-02-25 6:31 AM
Pssm is nothing new, horses have tied up for years, now they tagged a few letters together to have a official name for it. There are a lot of horses out there currently not tested for it that tie up. And horses have gone to the top that tie up. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle. It’s not a death sentence unless it’s not taken care of. All horses have something, navicular, colic, bleeder, that list goes on and on. Biggest part is educating yourself on it and roll on.
I do believe that aqha requires all stallions to be tested or you can’t register the foals, is that correct? This question goes back to the first original post.
i have not read ast page 3, so if something has been covered I apologize
That's true. These genetic disorders aren't anything new. But
Point 1. Some horses become virtually useless and some have to be euthanized because of these muscle disorders. P1 is sugar/starch intolerance. Very different cause from the P2 variants and different gene involved. The P2 variants (about 9 of them now) are muscle wasting disorders. The remedy is quality protein that contains all the essential amino acids. In the absence of enough of the correct protein, muscles break down and are unable to rebuild. The muscles breaks down showing as a poor topline and lack of muscle causes weakness; similar to human musclular dystrophy. P1 IMO is easy to avoid. P2 variants not so much. P2 is rampant in thoroughbreds and running bred horses.
Point 2. PLUS it gets worse the older an animals gets. People who run futurity horses may not think it's a big deal. Some horses flunk out of the program so what. Once the futurity year is over, they sell the horse. They get passed on to a newby or an amatuer rider and that's when the problems become noticable or insurmountable. They think it's them or there's a lameness. A lot of vets don't know what this is. They're more than happy to take your money for diagnotics and injections.
Point 3. If you knew they existed wouldn't you want to know so you didn't spend literally thousands of dollars trying to locate and improve a horses lameness or behavior issues from an unknown cause? Sometimes changing diet helps. Sometimes it doesn't. The information isn't all in yet. Symptoms may have something to do with the way protein, Vit E and other vitamins and minerals are metabolized.
Point 4. People who breed horses need to be as educated as possible on breaking news about genetics. Instead of denial, people need to at least educate themselves. If you don't want to test, don't. But more and more people are demanding it before they purchase.
All good points. The problem is there’s not a test for anything other than type 1 that has been proven. Equisec is closer but has a ways to go. Biopsy needs to be done in a symptomatic horse and is too invasive . as far as needing to be up on genetic testing and being responsible as a breeder, probably not going to happen . Winners get bred, flaws or not. People can’t won’t even cull for bad conformation . Crooked legs, Parrot mouths, cryptorchids are all over the place, so much for responsible breeding . | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line