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Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?

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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2020-01-07 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?


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Well now he is loved also by the BHW!  So sorry! 

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Sandok
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2020-01-07 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?


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Any idea of what happened?  Was it founder?

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-07 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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Sandok - 2020-01-07 8:21 AM


Any idea of what happened?  Was it founder?


He had what we thought was a mild case in the fronts and then it just progressively got worse over 2 weeks despite my best efforts and it got into his back feet last 2 days.. he had no where to put the weight and every step was agonizing for him. I just spent an hour on the phone with a vet I've never met, he was suggested to me from a farrier I know.. I had called him yesterday to see if he would come look at chuy, I left him a message.. he ended up calling me back when the other vet got here so I didnt answer ... but he just called me again this morning to check on us.. extremely nice man and he was genuinely sorry for what we had to do yesterday,  he spoke to me in great detail about laminitis and causes and treatments and prevention practices. I think I just found my new vet and hes mobile. I'm having him out to take care of my other horse next week. Time for a check up, blood tests, fecals, coggins, vaccinations, teeth, sheath, the works... he said he offers the Platinum package for the colic coverage and highly recommends the products especially for my horse who I just took of grain completely.   Things are somber around my home this morning... my kiddos are still asleep.. I let them stay home from school... there was still tears falling late last night at bedtime. I turned my horse out this morning and he went right over to chuys grave and sniffed around.... he walked away slowly out to the pasture .. I feel bad for him too.. hes solo now. 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-01-07 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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So sorry for your loss, I was really pulling for a better outcome. But I am glad he's no longer in pain and that he had someone like you to at least try to give him a fighting chance and to love him  

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Sandok
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2020-01-07 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?


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I am so sorry.  I had to put my mare down April, 2019.  She coliced but I think it was from founder, laminitis, over eating.  Now I keep a constant eye on my other two with feet and leg issues.  I also need a mobile vet.  I had one come out after I lost my mare to do check ups but he didn't really do anything outside of draw blood and then never went over anything with me.  Mine two are older geldings, 27 and 30.  I worry about my 27 year old being overweight.  He is off all grain now though and gets hay, forco and the Omega alfalfa cubes.  Out on pasture but pasture is not much this time of year but he still stays fat.  Trying my best to get the weight off but hard when he can't exercise very much like he used to.  He has what my farrier calls DSLD.  I have not confirmed this with Vet vet yet though.  

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-07 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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Sandok - 2020-01-07 10:07 AM


I am so sorry.  I had to put my mare down April, 2019.  She coliced but I think it was from founder, laminitis, over eating.  Now I keep a constant eye on my other two with feet and leg issues.  I also need a mobile vet.  I had one come out after I lost my mare to do check ups but he didn't really do anything outside of draw blood and then never went over anything with me.  Mine two are older geldings, 27 and 30.  I worry about my 27 year old being overweight.  He is off all grain now though and gets hay, forco and the Omega alfalfa cubes.  Out on pasture but pasture is not much this time of year but he still stays fat.  Trying my best to get the weight off but hard when he can't exercise very much like he used to.  He has what my farrier calls DSLD.  I have not confirmed this with Vet vet yet though.  


I'm definitely having my other tested for cushings and IR when this vet comes. My horse is obese with a cresty neck.. and I was feeding very little concentrates.. under 4lbs per day. Hes a concern because of how easy he keeps as hes 14 now. Yes, this vet recommended definitely getting the extra weight off, it's not a 100% prevention,  but it will definitely help! I've read so much over the past few weeks on this stuff its mind blowing .... theres a lot of blame being put on GMOS in the grains and feeds nowadays that is causing more cases of cushings and IR... I suppose it's no different than the theories of  our food poisoning us and creating health issues.  I dont rule it out though,  there is some merit to it I believe. I'm applying what I've learned from all my research to care for my horse now... one vet put it simple... feed every horse as if they were IR and you'll eliminate a large chunk of health issues... including ulcers. If you have a horse that's not in work or not being used daily and hard, dont feed them like they are... these nice options we have nowadays for bagged feed are mostly too much, too rich for your average horse that isnt being hauled hard... there is always exceptions to the rules though... then we are told if we dont feed the recommended amount of the feed our horse isnt getting all his vitamins and minerals required so we add in supplements... I get it I understand the logic behind it...I'm not saying bagged feed is bad or to blame I'm just sharing what I've read and researched... again I think there is some merit to it. 

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River
Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2020-01-07 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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I'm very sorry for your loss.  Do not second guess anything you did.  

My  young 10-year-old gelding that was recently diagnosed with Cushings has been on 10 acres of unfertilized coastal pasture 24/7 his whole life and fed only fertilized coastal bermuda hay during winters.  Never any grain.  Loose mineral and salt available.  The only thing different was about 3 years ago, I had an herbicide sprayed one time to kill goatweed (marked safe for livestock to remain on it) although I moved horses to another pasture during that time.  Who knows.  



Edited by River 2020-01-07 2:54 PM
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Runninbay
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2020-01-07 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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I havent been on here in a few weeks so I missed all of this but I just want to say that I'm so sorry for everything you went through with Chuy. We have a 25 year old gelding who struggles with this periodically so this definitely hits close to home. Many prayers for you and your family.

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-07 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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River - 2020-01-07 11:22 AM


My  young 10-year-old gelding that was recently diagnosed with Cushings has been on 10 acres of unfertilized coastal pasture 24/7 his whole life and fed only fertilized coastal bermuda hay during winters.  Never any grain.  Loose mineral and salt available.  The only thing different was about 3 years ago, I had an herbicide sprayed one time to kill goatweed (marked safe for livestock to remain on it) although I moved horses to another pasture during that time.  Who knows.  


This is probably the absolute best scenario for horses! I know it's not always feasible, of course... we around surrounded by crop fields and I hate when the crop duster plane comes... he killed all my in laws pecan crops on this property and I had planted a big live oak by my home and it got killed shortly after he sprayed. . He comes and sprays on windy days around here. Drives us all insane, we've all complained numerous times to no avail. Bottom line is, some can tolerate things others cant ... with everything... like the vet said today, you can do everything absolutely perfect and theyll still not survive laminitis or colic, etc... and you can do the very bare minimum and theyll make a full recovery, you just never know.. he said the 2 things that scare him the most are laminitis and colic... I'm right there with him ... especially now. 

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-07 2:49 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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River - 2020-01-07 11:22 AM


My  young 10-year-old gelding that was recently diagnosed with Cushings has been on 10 acres of unfertilized coastal pasture 24/7 his whole life and fed only fertilized coastal bermuda hay during winters.  Never any grain.  Loose mineral and salt available.  The only thing different was about 3 years ago, I had an herbicide sprayed one time to kill goatweed (marked safe for livestock to remain on it) although I moved horses to another pasture during that time.  Who knows.  


I just re-read this... sorry, I'm a little out of it today! Yes that is so odd about your horse being diagnosed! Baffling actually... why is cushings so rampant?? Did you put him on medication? 

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River
Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2020-01-07 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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I just edited my original post to say I'm sorry and to not second guess yourself.

My Cushings horse is one I raised and trained from a weanling but has been on the back burner the whole time...just an extra trail horse.  I was prescribed Prascend but trying Chaste tree berry.  Idk.  

 



Edited by River 2020-01-07 3:34 PM
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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-01-07 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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River - 2020-01-07 3:13 PM


I just edited my original post to say I'm sorry and to not second guess yourself.


My Cushings horse is one I raised and trained from a weanling but has been on the back burner the whole time...just an extra trail horse.  I was prescribed Prascend but trying Chaste tree berry.  Idk.  


My horse has had cushings for as long as I can remember, 5+ years, and doesn't need the Prascend because SmartPaks Smart Pituitary Senior keeps him in check. It's seriously been a huge asset. Its got the Chasteberry in it. He maintains his weight really well for 27 and after starting him on it his winter coat doesn't grow in so long and it sheds like a normal horse in spring. He used to grow a 4" long coat, it was insane how long and thick it was. Now it stays 2" at most. I highly recommend it to anyone who has a cushings horse 

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-07 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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I'm supposed to get chuys blood test results by Thursday I think, I'll be curious to see if he did in fact have cushings/IR.  Is this something that is tested on PPE or is it not a thing yet... I wonder if anyones getting false positives on the testing. So many questions... my farrier was out last night and he was telling me a barn he shoes for has a few horses that were put on prascend because they "suspected " cushings was present without actually testing them.. how they do that,  I dont know. I mean get it without a vet. It's not OTC right? Well, he said one horse that was on it improved.. dropped fatty cresty neck and fat deposits on his body and started performing better and just looked better all over... the other horse looked the same had no significance in change in condition or performance. It's a very interesting and concerning thing, this cushings. The vet that was out here yesterday even suggested I put my cash (my other horse) on chuys thyro-l to help him lose weight.  I'm scared to do that.. I'm not doing anything like that until I get him seen by this new vet and get blood tests, etc etc... there's just so much gray area to me... 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-01-07 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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want2chase3 - 2020-01-07 3:40 PM


I'm supposed to get chuys blood test results by Thursday I think, I'll be curious to see if he did in fact have cushings/IR.  Is this something that is tested on PPE or is it not a thing yet... I wonder if anyones getting false positives on the testing. So many questions... my farrier was out last night and he was telling me a barn he shoes for has a few horses that were put on prascend because they "suspected " cushings was present without actually testing them.. how they do that,  I dont know. I mean get it without a vet. It's not OTC right? Well, he said one horse that was on it improved.. dropped fatty cresty neck and fat deposits on his body and started performing better and just looked better all over... the other horse looked the same had no significance in change in condition or performance. It's a very interesting and concerning thing, this cushings. The vet that was out here yesterday even suggested I put my cash (my other horse) on chuys thyro-l to help him lose weight.  I'm scared to do that.. I'm not doing anything like that until I get him seen by this new vet and get blood tests, etc etc... there's just so much gray area to me... 


My vet offered it to me without testing back when mine first grew the 4" long coat and struggled to shed in spring. Look how many drugs there are in humans that can be used for other things, I used to take a drug that was for seizures because it helped migraines, I've never had a sezuire in my life. It's possible the Prascend could help, especially if they're overweight enough that it affects their hormones. Getting them back in check with it could potentially help I would guess. If I had an overweight horse like that I'd just adjust the diet and exercise it. If they're sound, just lunge them or ride them instead of pumping drugs into them. I don't run or even really ride in winter, but mine get lunged still 3-4 days a week to prevent weight gain & for one to keep her more sane lol 

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-09 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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I went by the vets yesterday to pay my final bill for Chuy. The vet that came to my house was in the lobby. She asked how we were all doing. She was genuinely asking me, I could tell. I appreciate that so much in a vet, I really do. Someone must have been cutting up some dang onions in that room because i felt the tears rolling but it was ok. Anyway, after a minute we got the bill.. she had taken off the blood testing and examinations and a few of the medications and the farm call. I was so grateful at that moment the onions got me again... I was contemplating finding another vet to take care of my remaining horse, but I decided to stay with these folks. 

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jake16
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2020-01-09 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?


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we sometimes forget that vets are humans to.We all make mistakes,do things in ways folks may not agree with,,but I believe most of them are there for the animals,especially large animal vets.Yes,some are smarter,some have seen more,and learned more from it,in the end,they aren't miracle workers,although some get lucky and do find that occasional miracle,But when you find a genuine good person behind the title,it goes a LONG WAY.HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY,I'm so sorry your learning experience had to be one that broke your hearts,much love to all of you.

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Chandler's Mom
Reg. Jan 2015
Posted 2020-01-09 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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want2chase3 - 2020-01-09 4:13 PM

I went by the vets yesterday to pay my final bill for Chuy. The vet that came to my house was in the lobby. She asked how we were all doing. She was genuinely asking me, I could tell. I appreciate that so much in a vet, I really do. Someone must have been cutting up some dang onions in that room because i felt the tears rolling but it was ok. Anyway, after a minute we got the bill.. she had taken off the blood testing and examinations and a few of the medications and the farm call. I was so grateful at that moment the onions got me again... I was contemplating finding another vet to take care of my remaining horse, but I decided to stay with these folks. 

Our local small animal vet has never charged me when I had to let one of mine go. . And she and her employees always sign and send us a condolence card.  That means The World to me.   Andrea is an asset to our community.  

I'm like Miss Mary, I hate you had to learn about this horrible disease this way.   But I'm thankful you have had some good people around during this tough time to support you. Keeping you in prayers



Edited by Chandler's Mom 2020-01-09 6:41 PM
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Whinny19
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2020-01-16 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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Want2chase3, my heart breaks for you. I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You tried your best for your sweet boy.

In the interest of potentially helping someone else who might come across this post in the future, I just wanted to provide some links.

Dr. Eleanor Kellon has a great (free!) group dedicated to supporting and advising the owners of laminitic, cushingoid, and/or insulin resistant horses.

ECIR Group on Facebook: ECIR Group FB Page

ECIR Website: https://www.ecirhorse.org

ECIR recommended emergency diet for laminitis flare ups: ECIR ER Diet

I hope these will offer some hope and answers for someone struggling with laminitis management one day.

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want2chase3
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2020-01-16 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



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Whinny19 - 2020-01-16 4:39 PM


Want2chase3, my heart breaks for you. I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You tried your best for your sweet boy.


In the interest of potentially helping someone else who might come across this post in the future, I just wanted to provide some links.


Dr. Eleanor Kellon has a great (free!) group dedicated to supporting and advising the owners of laminitic, cushingoid, and/or insulin resistant horses.


ECIR Group on Facebook: ECIR Group FB Page


ECIR Website: https://www.ecirhorse.org


ECIR recommended emergency diet for laminitis flare ups: ECIR ER Diet


I hope these will offer some hope and answers for someone struggling with laminitis management one day.


Yes I'm very familiar with this group.. I used the emergency diet for him too. It's a wonderful group and excellent information... they were very helpful. I got into a few of those groups while going thru this and this was the best one .... I'm still on it and left a few of the others. After going thru all this, my remaining healthy but chunky horse is off grain and I will say just in 4 weeks hes trimmed up despite not being worked daily because our weather is crazy ... his attitude is better, way less reactive and spooky. He just looks better overall. I'm doubtful I'll go back to feeding grain.  Its more work and not as convenient for sure but hes worth it to me. 

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Whinny19
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2020-01-16 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: Can we discuss Laminitis for a moment?



Brains Behind the Operation...


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Oh good, I'm glad you found them. That group is a wealth of information, and I really admire that they take the time to advise individual cases.

I embarked on a similar journey a little over 10 years ago, after losing one horse to colic and then trying to tailor diets for horses with other issues (PSSM, ulcers, etc.). My horses now all think beet pulp and alfalfa pellets are "grain" - and honestly they seem just as excited to get that as they ever did for real grain. It is extra work mixing your own balancer ration, but sure seems to alleviate a bunch of other problems.

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