|
|
  Champ
Posts: 19623
   
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | raisinrox - 2016-01-29 6:49 PM
I don't know how to copy and paste but there is a lot og info out there and articles fromn the new york times that htere is uranium under all that land and the Clintons are behind selling out a lot of rights to the russians and the government needs to get control of that land. Then it all makes sense!! The governemnt we currently have!!!
That's what we've been trying to say. Thanks.  | |
| | |
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | As far as the multiple gunshot wounds, time will tell. I didn't see any evidence of multiple gunshots. He reached for his left side with his right hand and dropped like a rock. It should be pretty easy to tell if he was shot while both hands were raised. If he only has the one fatal wound on autopsy, then the FBI's version is going to be pretty hard to disprove, particularly since he was packing a loaded weapon. Even if he has more than one wound, it will still be hard to disprove their version.
This Russia-Clinton connection is extremely interesting, particularly considering the source, and in light of the most recent revelations about the extremely top secret emails and the quarrel heating up between the State Dept and CIA. The Democrat power brokers must be feeling the heat, because it's very late to get a Hillary replacement. | |
| | |
 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | You know that the Feds had plenty of video cameras on this shootout that were close. The video we have all seen is far away. We want to see and hear the close up version. You can not protest against the Federal Government and win. They may be able to have guns as the 2nd Amendment buy when you take over a facility with guns that is threatening to the Government. I can not believe that they just didn't have dogs take him down but I believe the Government were just planning on killing them. | |
| | |
Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Douglas J Gordon - 2016-01-29 10:52 PM You know that the Feds had plenty of video cameras on this shootout that were close. The video we have all seen is far away. We want to see and hear the close up version. You can not protest against the Federal Government and win. They may be able to have guns as the 2nd Amendment buy when you take over a facility with guns that is threatening to the Government. I can not believe that they just didn't have dogs take him down but I believe the Government were just planning on killing them.
There's a zoomed in version on YouTube. | |
| | |
 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | geronabean - 2016-01-29 5:50 PM OregonBR - 2016-01-29 5:39 PM geronabean - 2016-01-29 2:30 PM Moral of the story for us who dont even know the whole story (which would be pretty much everyone) dont put yourself in situations where you are a know law hater and breaker and expect a good outcome. Ya that's one way to react. Hide and hope that the government doesn't want what you have. Lolol the Govt DOES want what I have. Ever heard of eminent domain? Well ive become a pro about it, yet Ive still not put myself in unlawful situations.
Please don't compare what they were protesting to eminent domain. These people were tried in court on ridiculous charges, jailed....did their time.....and then retried for the same **** charges and sent back to prison. The BLM fights dirty, they don't seize your land, but they make your life hell. If you'd like to know the whole story on the Hammonds, I'd be happy to send it to you. | |
| | |
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | OregonBR - 2016-01-29 6:56 PM
https://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lavoy-tinicums-death-released/
Enhanced video of the final moments of LaVoy Finicum's life. He put BOTH hands to his left hip. Why would a right handed man go to his left hip with both hands to draw a weapon they said was in his pocket? And that he never drew out of said pocket? Eyewitness account have him being shot repeatedly. You can see one time shot in the back and how many are from other angles.
Please actually LOOK at the links and videos being supplied right there for you? This is the final few moments of LaVoy's life. Have you ever tried to reach into your left jacket pocket with your right hand? Can't be done. https://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lavoy-tinicums-death-released/ | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| OregonBR - 2016-01-30 12:03 AM
OregonBR - 2016-01-29 6:56 PM
https://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lavoy-tinicums-death-released/
Enhanced video of the final moments of LaVoy Finicum's life. He put BOTH hands to his left hip. Why would a right handed man go to his left hip with both hands to draw a weapon they said was in his pocket? And that he never drew out of said pocket? Eyewitness account have him being shot repeatedly. You can see one time shot in the back and how many are from other angles.
Please actually LOOK at the links and videos being supplied right there for you? This is the final few moments of LaVoy's life. Have you ever tried to reach into your left jacket pocket with your right hand? Can't be done. https://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lavoy-tinicums-death-released/[...
If you go to Oregonlive.com and watch interviews with Finicum without his coat on, you will see he wears a shoulder holster, which of course would mean his loaded weapon would be on his left side where he could reach it with his right hand. The gun in his "pocket" is most certainly a mischaracterization of where his pistol was actually located. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer.
Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds. | |
| | |
 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Im going to guess that no matter what you 'think' you think, you'll enjoy this video...forget that this man was just killed, watch it, get a sense of who he was and what he was doing...if you still consider him a 'virus' (as the democrat representatives in Oregon are calling him) then this discussion is mute, whether he was 'murdered' doesn't even matter...because our country isn't worth dying for any longer anyhow.
https://www.facebook.com/steve.worthington.5/videos/1107996929231308/?fref=nf
| |
| | |
Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 7:52 AM The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer. Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds.
I'm the 1st one who 'liked' this...lol.
It became obvious during this occupation that the Hammonds are NOT the only victims that people care about...
It's a lot more complicated than what you summarized...they were charged as 'terrorists', yet, the BLM has destroyed much more land, cattle and homes with 'accidental' fires and aren't held to the same standard, kinda like the EPA/mine spill that happened in Colorado last year...there's no accountability for them, but, they use these laws in 'their' courts that oppress the people and provide for a massive land grab that is not constitutional.
It's a very dangerous road we're traveling...mainly because 'he who controls the land' controls the masses. Our food, our resources...jobs, money...
We need to get rid of mandatory minimums asap...
| |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I'll tell you one thing. If you are going to act all militant and badass and insinuate you would rather go down in a blaze of glory than go to jail, and you get cornered by LEOs, following a dangerous high speed chase, unless you want to follow through with your expressed desire to die in a blaze of glory, you'd better keep your arms up. Those cops didn't have time to analyze the probability of a piece in his pocket, a holster on his hip, an itch in his armpit, a shoulder holster, or gas pains. The minute he dropped his hand, he embarked on a game of Russian Roulette, with only one empty chamber. Sounds like he was a good man who used terrible judgement.
It doesn't matter why he dropped his hand and reached.....the moment he did, his fate was sealed. | |
| | |
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 8:52 AM The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer. Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds.
They were charged and tried under a Terrorist law. Which carried a min. 5 year sentence. They were not charged and tried under a law for burning 100 some odd acres. Which was set as a back burn to protect their own ranch land that drifted onto BLM land.Yet, the BLM can burn hundreds of thousands of acres, plus cattle and homes and are not accountable at all. | |
| | |
Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24952
Location: WYOMING | Bear - 2016-01-30 10:04 AM
I'll tell you one thing. If you are going to act all militant and badass and insinuate you would rather go down in a blaze of glory than go to jail, and you get cornered by LEOs, following a dangerous high speed chase, unless you want to follow through with your expressed desire to die in a blaze of glory, you'd better keep your arms up. Those cops didn't have time to analyze the probability of a piece in his pocket, a holster on his hip, an itch in his armpit, a shoulder holster, or gas pains. The minute he dropped his hand, he embarked on a game of Russian Roulette, with only one empty chamber. Sounds like he was a good man who used terrible judgement.
It doesn't matter why he dropped his hand and reached.....the moment he did, his fate was sealed.
Exactly. And now the govt doesnt have to deal with him anymore and his family doesnt have him anymore. Who just won?
| |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| While at the vet yesterday, got to talking with the horseshoer there about this deal and government ownership of land. This is kind of eye opening about how people who don't really understand how things work can get things screwed up in their mind.
He told me a story about how he used to go camping on BLM land between Cheyenne and Laramie with his horse and just have a real good time. Then, the Obama Administration sold off that land to two Denver millionaires and now they won't let anybody use that stuff anymore, and it was all Obama's fault that he couldn't have fun out there anymore. When I brought up the fact that that was exactly what the ranchers and militiamen (that he sympathizes with) wanted to happen, turning federal land that everybody could use into private or state run, he dropped the conversation.
The ironic and sad part of the situation is that the people who are screaming the loudest about taking federal ground away from BLM and Forest Service control, are the ones that would be hurt the most by private or state ownership. If the land was sold, no small time rancher would be able to afford it, it would go to people like the Koch Brothers who own the Matador Ranch in Montana (300,000 plus acres and six federal allotments). If the state owns it, it would be mined and drilled and grazed into oblivion by the highest bidder, or should I say campaign donor, and those ranchers would be sol. If on the off chance they were able to secure the leases, the rental rates for state and private ground are one h.... Of a lot bigger than the federal $1.69 fee they pay now.
But, on the bright side, the ranchers would be free to do whatever they wanted on their little private ranch that is too small to make a living on and with the loss of its federal leases, valueless. But again, they will be "free" to make their own decisions.
My advice is be careful what you wish for. | |
| | |
 Fact Checker
Posts: 16571
Location: Displaced Iowegian | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 8:41 AM OregonBR - 2016-01-30 12:03 AM OregonBR - 2016-01-29 6:56 PM https://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lavoy-tinicums-death-released/ Enhanced video of the final moments of LaVoy Finicum's life. He put BOTH hands to his left hip. Why would a right handed man go to his left hip with both hands to draw a weapon they said was in his pocket? And that he never drew out of said pocket? Eyewitness account have him being shot repeatedly. You can see one time shot in the back and how many are from other angles. Please actually LOOK at the links and videos being supplied right there for you? This is the final few moments of LaVoy's life. Have you ever tried to reach into your left jacket pocket with your right hand? Can't be done. https://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lavoy-tinicums-death-released/[... If you go to Oregonlive.com and watch interviews with Finicum without his coat on, you will see he wears a shoulder holster, which of course would mean his loaded weapon would be on his left side where he could reach it with his right hand. The gun in his "pocket" is most certainly a mischaracterization of where his pistol was actually located.
What the government is doing is wrong but what these men did was wrong TOO ! ! ! And it ended up with one of them being killed! | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| ThreeCorners - 2016-01-30 9:06 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 8:52 AM The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer. Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds.
They were charged and tried under a Terrorist law. Which carried a min. 5 year sentence. They were not charged and tried under a law for burning 100 some odd acres. Which was set as a back burn to protect their own ranch land that drifted onto BLM land.Yet, the BLM can burn hundreds of thousands of acres, plus cattle and homes and are not accountable at all.
You are right, they were tried under the terrorist law, but not before they were offered a plea deal that would have let them off with fines and probation. They chose a trial by their peers, which is how we do it in this country. Just like Finicum, they chose thir own path, and now they have to live with it. | |
| | |
Fact Checker
Posts: 16571
Location: Displaced Iowegian | geronabean - 2016-01-30 9:14 AM Bear - 2016-01-30 10:04 AM I'll tell you one thing. If you are going to act all militant and badass and insinuate you would rather go down in a blaze of glory than go to jail, and you get cornered by LEOs, following a dangerous high speed chase, unless you want to follow through with your expressed desire to die in a blaze of glory, you'd better keep your arms up. Those cops didn't have time to analyze the probability of a piece in his pocket, a holster on his hip, an itch in his armpit, a shoulder holster, or gas pains. The minute he dropped his hand, he embarked on a game of Russian Roulette, with only one empty chamber. Sounds like he was a good man who used terrible judgement. It doesn't matter why he dropped his hand and reached.....the moment he did, his fate was sealed. Exactly. And now the govt doesnt have to deal with him anymore and his family doesnt have him anymore. Who just won?
You probably aren't going to get much sympathy from the masses in the U.S .... because they don't feel that it affects ..... these men had to know that if you go armed and try to seize federal property that it wasn't going to end well. | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 9:19 AM
ThreeCorners - 2016-01-30 9:06 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 8:52 AM The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer. Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds.
They were charged and tried under a Terrorist law. Which carried a min. 5 year sentence. They were not charged and tried under a law for burning 100 some odd acres. Which was set as a back burn to protect their own ranch land that drifted onto BLM land.Yet, the BLM can burn hundreds of thousands of acres, plus cattle and homes and are not accountable at all.
You are right, they were tried under the terrorist law, but not before they were offered a plea deal that would have let them off with fines and probation. They chose a trial by their peers, which is how we do it in this country. Just like Finicum, they chose thir own path, and now they have to live with it.
Then, of course, there is this looming out there, and it's possible relationship to recent events. Far fetched? Maybe. Still, something to ponder. How is this related to Uranium? This story was originally from none other than the New York Times. Go figure.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/23/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as... | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| musikmaker - 2016-01-30 9:01 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 7:52 AM The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer. Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds.
I'm the 1st one who 'liked' this...lol.
It became obvious during this occupation that the Hammonds are NOT the only victims that people care about...
It's a lot more complicated than what you summarized...they were charged as 'terrorists', yet, the BLM has destroyed much more land, cattle and homes with 'accidental' fires and aren't held to the same standard, kinda like the EPA/mine spill that happened in Colorado last year...there's no accountability for them, but, they use these laws in 'their' courts that oppress the people and provide for a massive land grab that is not constitutional.
It's a very dangerous road we're traveling...mainly because 'he who controls the land' controls the masses. Our food, our resources...jobs, money...
We need to get rid of mandatory minimums asap...
Granted the mine fiasco was bad, but rather than lay all the blame on the person who was cleaning it up, certainly some of the blame should be laid at the doorstep of the millionaires who polluted then cut and run when the profit gave out, and the politicians who gave them free rein to do it.
It's tempting for people to blame "the government" for all their problems. It's amazing if you think long enough how you can justify any action and lay blame on somebody else.
Isn't the conservatives mantra "Personal Responsibility"? That is until it's personal and their responsibility (see Flint, MI water crisis). | |
| | |
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 9:30 AM musikmaker - 2016-01-30 9:01 AM FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-30 7:52 AM The Hammonds were found guilty on two charges which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. A judge took it upon himself to decrease the sentence because he did not think the punishment fit the crime, the sentence was appealed not re-tried, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail to complete the original minimum sentence that they received when convicted. They now have a clemency request filed and don't want the militia screwing it up. They should have taken the plea deal that was offered to them if they didn't want to take the risk of going to jail. Maybe they should have got a better lawyer. Thousands of people are in jail in the US on mandatory minimums that don't fit the crime, and you guys need to ask yourself if you care about them, or just the Hammonds. I'm the 1st one who 'liked' this...lol.
It became obvious during this occupation that the Hammonds are NOT the only victims that people care about...
It's a lot more complicated than what you summarized...they were charged as 'terrorists', yet, the BLM has destroyed much more land, cattle and homes with 'accidental' fires and aren't held to the same standard, kinda like the EPA/mine spill that happened in Colorado last year...there's no accountability for them, but, they use these laws in 'their' courts that oppress the people and provide for a massive land grab that is not constitutional.
It's a very dangerous road we're traveling...mainly because 'he who controls the land' controls the masses. Our food, our resources...jobs, money...
We need to get rid of mandatory minimums asap...
Granted the mine fiasco was bad, but rather than lay all the blame on the person who was cleaning it up, certainly some of the blame should be laid at the doorstep of the millionaires who polluted then cut and run when the profit gave out, and the politicians who gave them free rein to do it. It's tempting for people to blame "the government" for all their problems. It's amazing if you think long enough how you can justify any action and lay blame on somebody else. Isn't the conservatives mantra "Personal Responsibility"? That is until it's personal and their responsibility (see Flint, MI water crisis ).
Do your research - the Hammonds DID take the plea deal!!! | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line