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The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems

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Last activity 2018-02-22 9:19 AM
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kwanatha
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2018-01-05 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Meanest Teacher!!!


Posts: 8555
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Location: sunny california
okay so I called the dmv to tell them to mail me a DL44 form the noncommercial class A application. also to make sure that the noncommercial test would be available for my appt to take the wirtten. i had two different phones on hold. the first gal  says there is only a commercial class A I said nope read your own website. then she says you take the exact same test.

second gal says no problem I will send you the form for the noncommercial class A licence and don't worry their is two different tests. the noncommercial class A is on the computer so no worries that they won't have the right one. for you.

right hand don't know what the left hand is doing
 
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jettster
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2018-01-05 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



...Dot Dot Dot...


Posts: 2062
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Location: SW New Mexico
streakysox - 2018-01-06 2:14 PM

roperqueen - 2018-01-05 3:04 PM

We just bought a 2017 3500 Dodge Cab and Chassis. It's GVW is 14,000 ( I'm 99% sure it could have been 12,000) but that right there from what I read makes me need a CDL to just drive it alone across state lines. Or am I wrong on that? At the moment I only have a 2 horse bumper pull so I am good there I think but not across state lines? Since it's 10,000 lbs to cross the line. I think I will probably just end up getting a CDL one day if they let me test in my rig not a 18 wheeler. I know I can pass the written and the driving but that dang pre trip check is gonna be a doozy haha

I don't think you need one. Remember that GROSS vehicle weight is totally loaded. I went out and looked at the GROSS WEIGHT on my trailer. the axles max capicity is 6000. The GROSS weight is 12578. That means the weight on my trailer is less that 7,000. Somehow I don't think the DPS is going to stop everyone and weigh them. I did see a DPS weighing a fully loaded log truck yesterday but that is a little different. I think a daully is considered a light truck.


Look on the AQHA site. It says there is going to be a 90 day postponement of the law anyway. Just for the record being a member of certain organization that stick up for its members has come advantages.

There are already reports of rigs being pulled over by the DOT, 90 day delay, or not.
Gestapo is on duty.
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Three 4 Luck
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2018-01-05 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



Accident Prone


Posts: 22277
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR
 So I finally looked at the stickers today and my 2010 GMC Dually and 3 horse Cimarron trailer with 14' LQ have a GVWR of 25,400. BAM  Arkansas exempts RVs. Double BAM. My actual fully loaded weight is around 24,000.  I got dis...
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WetSaddleBlankets
Reg. Nov 2010
Posted 2018-01-05 10:11 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Gettin Jiggy Wit It


Posts: 2734
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Three 4 Luck - 2018-01-05 8:58 PM

 So I finally looked at the stickers today and my 2010 GMC Dually and 3 horse Cimarron trailer with 14' LQ have a GVWR of 25,400. BAM  Arkansas exempts RVs. Double BAM. My actual fully loaded weight is around 24,000.  I got dis...

 What is the gvwr of just your truck?
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Three 4 Luck
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2018-01-05 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



Accident Prone


Posts: 22277
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR
WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-01-05 10:11 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2018-01-05 8:58 PM  So I finally looked at the stickers today and my 2010 GMC Dually and 3 horse Cimarron trailer with 14' LQ have a GVWR of 25,400. BAM  Arkansas exempts RVs. Double BAM. My actual fully loaded weight is around 24,000.  I got dis...
 What is the gvwr of just your truck?

 11,400
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WetSaddleBlankets
Reg. Nov 2010
Posted 2018-01-05 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Gettin Jiggy Wit It


Posts: 2734
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Three 4 Luck - 2018-01-05 10:18 PM
WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-01-05 10:11 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2018-01-05 8:58 PM  So I finally looked at the stickers today and my 2010 GMC Dually and 3 horse Cimarron trailer with 14' LQ have a GVWR of 25,400. BAM  Arkansas exempts RVs. Double BAM. My actual fully loaded weight is around 24,000.  I got dis...
 What is the gvwr of just your truck?
 11,400
  so most duallys weigh over the 10,001 limit and will qualify as a commercial vehicle. They will need an EDL to operate according to the post I saw if you go out of the 150 air mile radius from home more than 8 days out of 30 days. Edited to add they are over the 11,000 gvwr for pulling vehicle and the 15,000 gvwr trailer combination qualifying for the a CDL? I'm so confused.... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1853114438034381&id=1883...

Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2018-01-05 11:58 PM
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2018-01-06 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Military family

Semper Fi


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Location: North Texas
This new regulation is written so as to eliminate as loopholes as possible to accrue as much revenue as possible. All in the name of "Public Safety"!
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2018-01-06 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Military family

Semper Fi


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Location: North Texas
One must remember also, that a rig over 10,000 GVWR requires a Medical Certificate via current regs................................
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streakysox
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2018-01-06 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



Take a Picture


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There is something on the AQHA site about all thi being postponed. I just saw a post on Facebook by a court reporter friend says they are delaying this for 5 years for small trucking companies who make less than $27.5 million. I make slightly less than this so I think I am good.
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fulltiltfilly
Reg. Dec 2008
Posted 2018-01-06 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



I hate cooking and cleaning


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Location: Jersey Girl
streakysox - 2018-01-06 6:49 PM There is something on the AQHA site about all thi being postponed. I just saw a post on Facebook by a court reporter friend says they are delaying this for 5 years for small trucking  less than this so I think I am good.companies who make less than $27.5 million. I make slightly

 
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OhMax
Reg. Feb 2013
Posted 2018-01-07 8:17 AM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Married to a Louie Lover


Posts: 3303
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Another question that recently popped into my head -

If I get my CDL to drive my 11,400 gvwr dually and 16,700 gvwr trailer to haul my own horses to rodeos, not for hire - do I have to carry commercial insurance?
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Racer4eva
Reg. Feb 2009
Posted 2018-01-07 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Elite Veteran


Posts: 762
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Location: NC
Just saw this on FB. This doesnt show horse trailers but this shows what big truck drivers are going thru with having ELD's in their trucks. There is no way I would shut down on the side of any ice-y road with a horse trailer, even with an ELD in truck. And all the truck stops were full. (the end is a bit of a rant but the line of trucks shut down is amazing)
https://www.facebook.com/1760152367/videos/10204316244743818/
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Runaway
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2018-01-07 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



Sorry I don't have any advice


Posts: 1975
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Location: Sunnyland Florida

Just reading everything and trying to comprehend.  

I.  HAVE.  A.  HEADACHE.


 
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total performance
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2018-01-07 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems



Namesless in BHW


Posts: 10368
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Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs
Runaway - 2018-01-07 9:15 PM

Just reading everything and trying to comprehend.  



I.  HAVE.  A.  HEADACHE.




 

 
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ThreeCorners
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2018-01-08 7:09 AM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Military family
Tried and True


Posts: 21185
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Location: Where I am happiest
OhMax - 2018-01-07 8:17 AM

Another question that recently popped into my head -

If I get my CDL to drive my 11,400 gvwr dually and 16,700 gvwr trailer to haul my own horses to rodeos, not for hire - do I have to carry commercial insurance?

  Best question yet!! I hadn't even thought about this aspect. Holy cow! Commercial insurance is astronomical!!
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OhMax
Reg. Feb 2013
Posted 2018-01-08 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Married to a Louie Lover


Posts: 3303
20001000100100100
ThreeCorners - 2018-01-08 7:09 AM

OhMax - 2018-01-07 8:17 AM

Another question that recently popped into my head -

If I get my CDL to drive my 11,400 gvwr dually and 16,700 gvwr trailer to haul my own horses to rodeos, not for hire - do I have to carry commercial insurance?

  Best question yet!! I hadn't even thought about this aspect. Holy cow! Commercial insurance is astronomical!!

Yep. We’re having a commercial quote worked up right now for some non horse related work we do. I’m slightly terrified...
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rushlvr
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2018-01-08 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 418
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The log systems rule has been delayed 90 days, not the requirements for CDL

taken from ttps://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49

MY take only!! But maybe it will help someone be able to start their own research

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles USED IN COMMERCE To transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle is a—
(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A)—having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or


Used in commerce is number 1, are you using it in commerce, barrel racers: do you deduct mileage fuel, costs, and itemize on your taxes? If not then not used in commerce see below exemption

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—
(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Their answer: Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

Hauling horses to sales seems to have an exemption (This is my own take, please make your own decision!)

Covered farm vehicle—
(1) Means a straight truck or articulated vehicle—
(i) Registered in a State with a license plate or other designation issued by the State of registration that allows law enforcement officials to identify it as a farm vehicle;
(ii) Operated by the owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or an employee or family member of a an owner or operator of a farm or ranch;
(iii) Used to transport agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch; and
(iv) Not used in for-hire motor carrier operations; however, for-hire motor carrier operations do not include the operation of a vehicle meeting the requirements of paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition by a tenant pursuant to a crop share farm lease agreement to transport the landlord's portion of the crops under that agreement.
(2) Meeting the requirements of paragraphs (1)(i) through (iv) of this definition:
(i) With a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating, whichever is greater, of 26,001 pounds or less may utilize the exemptions in §390.39 anywhere in the United States; or

§390.39 Exemptions for “covered farm vehicles.”
(a) Federal requirements. A covered farm vehicle, as defined in §390.5, including the individual operating that vehicle, is exempt from the following:
(1) Any requirement relating to commercial driver's licenses in 49 CFR Part 383 or controlled substances and alcohol use and testing in 49 CFR Part 382;
(2) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 391, Subpart E, Physical Qualifications and Examinations.
(3) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 395, Hours of Service of Drivers.
(4) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 396, Inspection, Repair, and Maintenance.
c) Other exemptions and exceptions. The exemptions in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section are in addition to, not in place of, the agricultural exemptions and exceptions in §§383.3(d)(1), 383.3(e), 383.3(f), 391.2(a), 391.2(b), 391.2(c), 391.67, 395.1(e)(1), 395.1(e)(2), 395.1(h), 395.1(i), and 395.1(k) of this chapter. Motor carriers and drivers may utilize any combination of these exemptions and exceptions, providing they comply fully with each separate exemption and exception.

NO CDL required? transporting livestock from a ranch, under 26,0001 if over its limited to 150 air miles.


White paper on the farm regs. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/Federal_Reg...


Its also my understanding that your state can go stricter, know your state laws, but there is reciprocity for other states so your cdl from your state should suffice for others (again, I believe,)

The State must allow any person to operate a CMV in the State who is not disqualified from operating a CMV and who holds a CLP or CDL that is—
(a) Issued to him or her by his/her State or jurisdiction of domicile in accordance with part 383 of this subchapter;
(b) Not disqualified; and
(c) Valid, under the terms of part 383, subpart F, of this subchapter, for the type of vehicle being driven.

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ThreeCorners
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2018-01-08 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Military family
Tried and True


Posts: 21185
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Location: Where I am happiest
rushlvr - 2018-01-08 11:46 AM

The log systems rule has been delayed 90 days, not the requirements for CDL

taken from ttps://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49

MY take only!! But maybe it will help someone be able to start their own research

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles USED IN COMMERCE To transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle is a—
(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A)—having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or


Used in commerce is number 1, are you using it in commerce, barrel racers: do you deduct mileage fuel, costs, and itemize on your taxes? If not then not used in commerce see below exemption

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—
(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Their answer: Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

Hauling horses to sales seems to have an exemption (This is my own take, please make your own decision!)

Covered farm vehicle—
(1) Means a straight truck or articulated vehicle—
(i) Registered in a State with a license plate or other designation issued by the State of registration that allows law enforcement officials to identify it as a farm vehicle;
(ii) Operated by the owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or an employee or family member of a an owner or operator of a farm or ranch;
(iii) Used to transport agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch; and
(iv) Not used in for-hire motor carrier operations; however, for-hire motor carrier operations do not include the operation of a vehicle meeting the requirements of paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition by a tenant pursuant to a crop share farm lease agreement to transport the landlord's portion of the crops under that agreement.
(2) Meeting the requirements of paragraphs (1)(i) through (iv) of this definition:
(i) With a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating, whichever is greater, of 26,001 pounds or less may utilize the exemptions in §390.39 anywhere in the United States; or

§390.39 Exemptions for “covered farm vehicles.”
(a) Federal requirements. A covered farm vehicle, as defined in §390.5, including the individual operating that vehicle, is exempt from the following:
(1) Any requirement relating to commercial driver's licenses in 49 CFR Part 383 or controlled substances and alcohol use and testing in 49 CFR Part 382;
(2) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 391, Subpart E, Physical Qualifications and Examinations.
(3) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 395, Hours of Service of Drivers.
(4) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 396, Inspection, Repair, and Maintenance.
c) Other exemptions and exceptions. The exemptions in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section are in addition to, not in place of, the agricultural exemptions and exceptions in §§383.3(d)(1), 383.3(e), 383.3(f), 391.2(a), 391.2(b), 391.2(c), 391.67, 395.1(e)(1), 395.1(e)(2), 395.1(h), 395.1(i), and 395.1(k) of this chapter. Motor carriers and drivers may utilize any combination of these exemptions and exceptions, providing they comply fully with each separate exemption and exception.

NO CDL required? transporting livestock from a ranch, under 26,0001 if over its limited to 150 air miles.


White paper on the farm regs. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/Federal_Reg...


Its also my understanding that your state can go stricter, know your state laws, but there is reciprocity for other states so your cdl from your state should suffice for others (again, I believe,)

The State must allow any person to operate a CMV in the State who is not disqualified from operating a CMV and who holds a CLP or CDL that is—
(a) Issued to him or her by his/her State or jurisdiction of domicile in accordance with part 383 of this subchapter;
(b) Not disqualified; and
(c) Valid, under the terms of part 383, subpart F, of this subchapter, for the type of vehicle being driven.


  so is this saying even if your combined weight is under 26000 If your towing vehicle has a gvw over 10,000 you need a CDL and a ELD unit?
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rushlvr
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2018-01-08 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 418
100100100100
I don't think so, a single vehicle has to be over 26k by itself,

the trailer has to be at least GVWR of 10,000 to be included in the weight rating. the trucks normally will always be over 10K GVWR as a dually i believe. its very confusing! i have reached out to my dept. of motor vehicle at the attorney generals office and they respond very fast so they are helping me, hopefully you all could get likewise service by your states.

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mattslilwonder
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2018-01-08 2:49 PM
Subject: RE: The DOT, horse rigs and the new log systems


A Cool Sharp One


200020005001002525
there is a diagram on FB that I found and it basiclly says this.....

The bottom line.... in general these rules do not apply to the occasional short-haul transportaion of horses, provided it is not for compensation
or commercial purposes

Basicaly, if you are hauling for recreational purposes or not showing for prize money,  you are exempt from the ELd manadate


So are these situations when I don't need an ELD?

yes, if you are not driving more than 11 hours

yes, if you, the driver, take 10 consecutive hours off between shifts

yes, if you start and return your drive to the same location within 12 hours time

yes, if you drive within a 100 air mile radius (as the crow flies) from the normal starting work location


so in other words if I am going somewhere for the day or weekend and not leavin the state and I get stopped then
I am going camping for the weekend, and I'm not lying because my small 11' lq trailer is what I am camping in 
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