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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
  
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 5:00 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-10 5:38 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:37 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-10 4:33 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 3:19 PM FlyingJT - 2014-04-10 3:46 PM https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152076448588506&set=vb.68... urban vs rural expansion is a huge problem...issue...whatever you want to call it.....
still doesn't change my mind on the guys who would see every last tortoise (not turtle), wolf, mountain lion, bobcat, snake, whatever, exterminated so they could have a bunch of cows on cheap govt land......of course, plenty of purely private guys are no different.......the land should be cleared except for cows and grass or crops.....unless it's some animal they can make money off of....elk, moose, ducks, pheasants.....obviously those are the only good animals....
Fyi...the so-called endangered species issues are nothing more than a ruse...google Doyel Shamely IF you want to get educated on our public lands & the many ways we've been duped. Please.
and i didn't have to read that into it.....i listened to what he said
I've been duped before, I'm sure...just don't think the real concern of the environmentalists is for the animal.
Years ago my husband was the 'bad guy', he's the one who did all the controversial uranium exploration at the Grand Canyon, suffice it to say we have some experience with the types who receive monies to 'protest'...most of them at that time didn't even know what they were protesting, just new it was a party...and they got money to show up! Idk if they were paid extra to damage equipment. Wouldn't surprise me coming from those nice, animal loving souls. Uh-huh.
and along that line, he obviously isn't to interested in the grass issue in regards to the tortoise......there does need to be a balance......and a decent plan between interests isn't a bad thing.....but obviously that opinion paints us as on the side of a govt takeover, which everyone on here already knows where i stand......but hey, musikmaker (and i still prefer the sexy pirate), if you're ranch was looking to expand and all the surrounding land for 30 miles was owned by a guy that grazed it to the dirt and ruined it for the next 50 years or more (and in desert country, that's no joke) (and happens)......would you be support that ranchers right to destroy that land, maybe for 100 years, just because it was private land and the owners right......????? now you've got no where to grow.....now make that rancher a renter....(and i realize this federal land control issue is a big one and one i would like to see decrease)....but i can't imagine that if you were the landlord, that you would let a renter do this to your land without kicking them off long before too much damage was done....wouldn't you???? well, public land isn't just managed for the benefit of the cattlemen......hhell, they get enough of a subsidy with the cheap grazing rights they have and can retain....now it's a huge problem that they still have to work with a govt that goes from one extreme to the other and continually whittles away rights......but just because something involves the environment, doesn't mean it's a ruse....
but hey.....let ignore good science unless it supports our side....
I don'tknow how old Mr. Bundy is, but, I do know I'd never hear the word 'tortoise' out of any of the oldtimers mouths that I know...just cuz. Regardless. why are they now going to destroy them? It wasn't too long ago that I saw a news article about the 'homing' of said tortoise due to a lack of water in the area...something something...I don't recall exactly, just that they would be trying to find homes for some & euthanizing the rest. So...that is no longer a...um...'means' of removing the cattle.
I've actually witnessed a few 'ranchers' who have no clue how to read the range & no interest in learning...burns me up as I agree that it only creates the perfect excuse to close said range...but, why would the managers allow it get so bad unless they saw an opportunity?
As to the private owner...it's none of my business what he/she does with their land. I live in the desert of Utah! Red Rock Country...surrounded on all sides by 'managed' land of one sort or another...Navajo Reservation to the south & BLM everywhere else. I don't see any of it working.
If you take a journey back to the days when men & women were willing to brave this rough a$$ country just to try their hand at living a free life...when they left everything that they knew, all that was familiar and came out here to flee the oppression of their home country's gov't...then maybe you'd see what the fight is really about. We have nowhere else to go. We must make it work here & most of us have enjoyed the opportunity to succeed or parrish...whatever luck & hard work allowed...and we like it that way. We're not anserable to nobody but ourselves. The 'public land' is just there. Mostly because it can't sustain much life...there's no water. It was considered 'wasteland'...still is. Just north of Flagstaff is some of the prettiest country with more feed than you can imagine...a lot of it going to waste it seems, because there's no water for the livestock...you can't drill deep enough to hit it.
Anyhow...I've yet to hear of Bundy being accused of bad range management? From what I can gather it's about water & growth.
Also...about that 'good science' stuff...they say the earth is getting bigger! The ice burgs are melting & changing the diameter of the earth! Imagine! Lol... | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Whiteboy - 2014-04-10 4:19 PM Whiteboy - 2014-04-10 1:33 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-04-10 12:46 PM i watched his interview last night......he is getting what he deserves.........which is a completely separate issue from federal 'ownership' of all the acres.....which is continually increasing........nor is it part of the issue involved with beieng able to video what is taking place.......which is not just a problem with federal enforcers, it is every level of govt enforcement......
but, back to Bundy......run the sucker off..... And then once he is gone, move onto each national park and monument and run off the cattlemen, then close the roads, then run off the horseback riders. After all it should be the granola eating, subaru driving hippies that should have uninterupted access.
Oh wait...that is already happening. (Escalante Grand Staircase National Monument)
Back County Horsemen of America
Working to keep trails open on public lands.
Back Country Horsemen of America E-Blast
April 7, 2014
Action Alert: Deadline for Comments: May 24, 2014 (midnight Mountain time zone)
Proposed Rule Change for Private Horse Use –Bryce Canyon National Park
Dear BCHA members,
Bryce Canyon National Park has proposed changes for users of privately-owned stock on designated horse trails within the park. The changes are intended to ensure the safety of all visitors and to protect park resources. The park initiated a public comment period on the proposed changes for 30 days beginning March 26, 2014.
The changes proposed by Bryce Canyon National Park include a requirement that all horseback riding must be coordinated with the park’s authorized trail-ride concessioner, prior to entering the park. Of concern, however, is that private stock users also would be required to the pay a substantial fee to the park’s concessioner to guide and accompany all privately-owned stock riding groups for the duration of their trip over any portion of the eight miles of park trails available for stock use.
The fee that would be charged by the concessioner for this service would be based on the number of riders, up to eight riders per guide. The proposed fee schedule would range from $100 for the first rider to $345 for eight riders.
For more information, view the Park’s website here:
http://www.nps.gov/brca/parknews/proposed-rule-change-for-private-horse-use.htm
If approved, the proposed changes would represent a new and disturbing precedent among National Parks to require all private stock users to hire a commercial guide. We are not aware of any National Park where such a requirement currently exists. Nor does BCHA want to see this precedent established at Bryce Canyon. In order to adequately resolve concerns regarding visitor safety, we believe that alternative measures can be taken that emphasize rider education, resource protection, and the role of law enforcement in dealing with rogue riders who choose to violate the rules.
The public is encouraged to submit comments by April 24, 2014, via email to the following address: [email protected], or mail your comments to: Program Analyst, Bryce Canyon National Park, P.O. Box 640201, Bryce, Utah 84764
BCHA’s Advisor for Wilderness & Recreation is coordinating the public comment effort with BCH Utah’s Officer for Public Lands. They recommend you consider including some or all of the following talking points in your comments to Bryce Canyon National Park.
Remember, “Cool heads prevail.” It’s important to be courteous, to make constructive recommendations that address the safety problem and, importantly, to demonstrate your passion and knowledge by adding your personal story among these talking points:
· I am writing about the Proposed Rule Change for Private Horse Use.
· As a private user of recreational stock, I recognize the importance of minimizing safety hazards and resource damage on our public lands.
· I appreciate the Park Superintendent’s announcement of a 30-day comment period on the matter. By doing so, he recognized the high level of public interest and desire of visitors who use their horses and mules to enjoy the beauty and splendor of Bryce Canyon and other National Parks.
· I understand that portions of the trails at Bryce Canyon are unusually narrow and steep. This is why horse trails at the park are designated “one-way,” in order to minimize the potential for parties on horseback to pass each other along segments of trail where it is dangerous to do so.
· I understand that additional measures are needed to avoid private and commercially-guided parties from converging at those sections of trail where there is high safety risk.
· I do not, however, support the park’s current proposal that all private stock parties be required to hire the services of a commercial guide.
· Instead, I understand the Park Superintendent is open to constructive comments that would help alleviate the safety situation and ensure that riders stay on designated trails and not damage park resources.
· In addition to the currently required 48-hour advance check-in by private stock users, I recommend the park adopt an alternative that would restrict the time (s ) of day a private party be allowed to traverse sections of trail where there is high safety risk, in order to allow commercially-guided trips safe passage.
· I understand the need to minimize damage to off-trail soils and cultural resources.
· I recommend that private stock parties be required to check in--prior to riding in the park--both to coordinate departure/itinerary logistics regarding rider safety and to receive a briefing from either park or commercial outfitter personnel. The briefing could be used to convey regulations pertaining to use of park trails, including prohibitions on off-trail travel, cutting of switchbacks and riding parallel or side-by-side on designated trails where the trail tread is narrow.
· I do not object to paying a modest fee to cover agency and/or commercial outfitter costs associated with the recommended pre-departure briefing for private stock parties.
· I encourage the Park Service to explore methods by which NPS law enforcement personnel can more readily identify and make contact with stock users who do not follow the rules. These methods should emphasize streamlined communication with park volunteers and the stock concession operator to report violations in a timely manner.
· I understand that Back Country Horsemen of Utah (BCHU ) has volunteered to assist the Park Service in developing a curriculum of the pre-trip training for private stock users. They have several Master Trainers versed in Leave No Trace techniques, and the Park Service would benefit from cultivating closer relations with BCHU and enlisting their assistance.
· I appreciate this opportunity to provide public comment.
· Thank you for your effort to make the unique trail experience offered at Bryce Canyon safe and affordable for everyone. I look forward to my next visit to Bryce Canyon National Park.
BCHA: Working to insure that public lands remain open to recreational stock use.
Forgot to renew your membership? Donate to BCHA now!
This e-blast is not meant to take the place of our hard copy newsletter but to inform and communicate on issues in a timelier manner. This does not take away from the roll of your National Directors on issues of a more BCHA nature that are the responsibility of your elected National Directors. Please feel free to pass this newsletter on to members and non-members who might not have email.
Don’t forget to Like us on Facebook.com at: http://www.facebook.com/#!/bcha.org. We have had to date 2,260 likes on our Facebook page. It is a good place to post your chapter, affiliates and at-large members to post updates and information on accomplishments and upcoming events and work days.
About Back Country Horsemen of America
BCHA is a non-profit corporation made up of state organizations, affiliates, and at large members. Their efforts have brought about positive changes in regards to the use of horses and stock in the wilderness and public lands.
If you want to know more about Back Country Horsemen of America or become a member, visit our website: www.backcountryhorse.com, call 888-893-5161, or write PO Box 1367, Graham, WA 98338-1367. The future of horse use on public lands is in our hands!
Remove me from future E-Blast and Alert Messages
I can't believe nobody else has jumped on this one!
A glimpse into the future...if we're dumb enough to allow it...then we deserve it.
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | No matter where you think you are on this we all need to consider the real implications. This is just another emotional, heartfelt video from a man who's willing to stand. It's all kinda sad, but, know that all these people are doing everything they can to prevent another Ruby Ridge...a time, a place, a family...who didn't have what we have today...the internet. That blood is on all ours hands...let's be strong & sure that we can fight this fight without bloodshed, without hate, rather, let's get it right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ncLjvoTa0Xw
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| The true American citizens need to arm themselves and set up "road blocks" and get behind the snipers, dont let the feds surround you. Road blocks around the feds road blocks and snipers behind their snipers. | |
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  Semper Fi
 
Location: North Texas | musikmaker - 2014-04-10 11:15 PM
No matter where you think you are on this we all need to consider the real implications. This is just another emotional, heartfelt video from a man who's willing to stand. It's all kinda sad, but, know that all these people are doing everything they can to prevent another Ruby Ridge...a time, a place, a family...who didn't have what we have today...the internet. That blood is on all ours hands...let's be strong & sure that we can fight this fight without bloodshed, without hate, rather, let's get it right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ncLjvoTa0Xw
This man speaks the TRUTH! | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Itsme - 2014-04-10 11:30 PM The true American citizens need to arm themselves and set up "road blocks" and get behind the snipers, dont let the feds surround you. Road blocks around the feds road blocks and snipers behind their snipers.
Itsme: I am about radical as they come where The Constitution is concerned...........but I am at least halfway sensible when it comes to starting a Shooting Civil War between Americans! The guy in the Youtube Video MM posted has it right! Let The Feds fire the first shot. I really have to wonder if you have ever studied any kind of history whatsoever. Also have you ever experienced the aftermath of a shooting event? Real People with Real Families get hurt and die who leave Loved Ones behind. Did you ever think of that?
I am not against a 'Civil War' per se. I am just not particularly interested in being the party or parties who are responible for the opening round.
Edited by foundation horse 2014-04-11 8:40 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| musikmaker - 2014-04-10 11:15 PM
No matter where you think you are on this we all need to consider the real implications. This is just another emotional, heartfelt video from a man who's willing to stand. It's all kinda sad, but, know that all these people are doing everything they can to prevent another Ruby Ridge...a time, a place, a family...who didn't have what we have today...the internet. That blood is on all ours hands...let's be strong & sure that we can fight this fight without bloodshed, without hate, rather, let's get it right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ncLjvoTa0Xw
Thank you for posting that! | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Texans...here ya go, you've been targeted, too.
I'm (nearly) speechless at this blatent disregard for our Consitution...I want to remind us of where, precisely, the power & control lies: whosoever owns/controls the land. And although the BLM and other agencies that fall under the umbrella of the Dept. of Interior pretend to be part of our gov't...they are not. They do not represent The People! So...when you realize that the current managers of the public lands are not directly answerable to the people you then realize that the land is being stolen from all of us.
arrrggghhhh....
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/not-just-nevada-blm-land-grabbing-90000-deeded-acres-in-texas-too/
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:28 AM Texans...here ya go, you've been targeted, too.
I'm (nearly) speechless at this blatent disregard for our Consitution...I want to remind us of where, precisely, the power & control lies: whosoever owns/controls the land. And although the BLM and other agencies that fall under the umbrella of the Dept. of Interior pretend to be part of our gov't...they are not. They do not represent The People! So...when you realize that the current managers of the public lands are not directly answerable to the people you then realize that the land is being stolen from all of us.
arrrggghhhh....
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/not-just-nevada-blm-land-grabbing-90000-deeded-acres-in-texas-too/
where have you been???? you're right...no one pays attention....i posted about this several pages back as a much better example of BLM over reach and a link to a video of a texas rancher that they've already run off and an oklahoma rancher that is worried that if the BLM pulls this, he might lose some of his property to a texas rancher because fo the interpretation..... | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:28 AM
Texans...here ya go, you've been targeted, too.
I'm (nearly) speechless at this blatent disregard for our Consitution...I want to remind us of where, precisely, the power & control lies: whosoever owns/controls the land. And although the BLM and other agencies that fall under the umbrella of the Dept. of Interior pretend to be part of our gov't...they are not. They do not represent The People! So...when you realize that the current managers of the public lands are not directly answerable to the people you then realize that the land is being stolen from all of us.
arrrggghhhh....
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/not-just-nevada-blm-land-grabbing-90000-deeded-acres-in-texas-too/
And these Ranchers have CLEAR Deeds of Title to their land DHDQLC! Same concept though! The Feds are attempting to ride roughshod over Private Citizen Property Owners! | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | dhdqhllc - 2014-04-11 8:33 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:28 AM Texans...here ya go, you've been targeted, too.
I'm (nearly) speechless at this blatent disregard for our Consitution...I want to remind us of where, precisely, the power & control lies: whosoever owns/controls the land. And although the BLM and other agencies that fall under the umbrella of the Dept. of Interior pretend to be part of our gov't...they are not. They do not represent The People! So...when you realize that the current managers of the public lands are not directly answerable to the people you then realize that the land is being stolen from all of us.
arrrggghhhh....
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/not-just-nevada-blm-land-grabbing-90000-deeded-acres-in-texas-too/
Oops...! I thought I clicked on all the links...hmmm.
An aspect of this land grap that's very alarming is the precedence that was set previously...
This is the thing with the appointed agencies...they don't take an oath, yet, they make policy! They are law makers. No different than the United Nations taking a 'blanket approach' to the world, these agencies do the same blanket approach over all the states, which makes a joke of States Rights, which makesd citizens powerless. Voiceless. Subjects.
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:39 AM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-11 8:33 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:28 AM Texans...here ya go, you've been targeted, too.
I'm (nearly) speechless at this blatent disregard for our Consitution...I want to remind us of where, precisely, the power & control lies: whosoever owns/controls the land. And although the BLM and other agencies that fall under the umbrella of the Dept. of Interior pretend to be part of our gov't...they are not. They do not represent The People! So...when you realize that the current managers of the public lands are not directly answerable to the people you then realize that the land is being stolen from all of us.
arrrggghhhh....
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/not-just-nevada-blm-land-grabbing-90000-deeded-acres-in-texas-too/
An aspect of this land grap that's very alarming is the precedence that was set previously...
This is the thing with the appointed agencies...they don't take an oath, yet, they make policy! They are law makers. No different than the United Nations taking a 'blanket approach' to the world, these agencies do the same blanket approach over all the states, which makes a joke of States Rights, which makesd citizens powerless. Voiceless. Subjects.
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | dhdqhllc - 2014-04-11 9:33 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:28 AM Texans...here ya go, you've been targeted, too.
I'm (nearly) speechless at this blatent disregard for our Consitution...I want to remind us of where, precisely, the power & control lies: whosoever owns/controls the land. And although the BLM and other agencies that fall under the umbrella of the Dept. of Interior pretend to be part of our gov't...they are not. They do not represent The People! So...when you realize that the current managers of the public lands are not directly answerable to the people you then realize that the land is being stolen from all of us.
arrrggghhhh....
http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/not-just-nevada-blm-land-grabbing-90000-deeded-acres-in-texas-too/
But your link wasn't live. It's a PIA to copy and paste on an iThang. | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | bingo.....see what i mean about it's gotta be easy for folks to pay attention to something!!!!! lol | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | dhdqhllc - 2014-04-11 9:44 AM
bingo.....see what i mean about it's gotta be easy for folks to pay attention to something!!!!! lol
At least I'm honest.  | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Not a Tortoise, Fracking Millions Behind BLM Evicting NV Rancher, BLM Wants That Land The Bureau of Land Management claims to be evicting the Bundy cattle from public land for which he has a legal permit to use for the benefit of a tortoise. They are spending incredible amounts of money and have 200 or more armed enforcement officers with vehicles dedicated to the removal of these cattle. Are they simply warm and fuzzy environmental do-gooders or could there be more to the story? Yes, there could be a lot more. A lot of potentially very profitable fracking leases, with exploratory drilling already being conducted. The money BLM gets from cattle is nothing compared to what they can generate with oil leases. While the tortoises are incapable of representing themselves as to whether they would prefer the risk presented by a herd of cattle to that of fleets of trucks and fracking rigs, one has to believe the impact imposed by the cattle would be significantly lower. Fracking requires a lot of trucks and trailers, carrying fresh water in, and transporting waste water back out. The recovered oil product will also need to be carried out by truck and the transportation of the equipment itself. No pipelines exist in these areas, trucks carry everything. Roads will have to be built. This map from the Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology shows significant exploratory drilling being carried out in exactly the same area, “Gold Butte,” from which the offending Bundy cattle are being rounded up. Oil has been found in nearby areas and may already have been discovered in Gold Butte as well. The markings on the map indicate oil exploration sites, with the red markings identifying actual oil and gas drilling operations. Two weeks ago it was reported in ShaleReporter.com that the BLM struck it rich with the issuance of $1.27 million in Nevada oil and gas leases, at a recent auction in Reno. It is indeed fortunate for the BLM that these tortoises only recently became endangered by the cattle the Bundy family has been running in that area for generations. Had the same “risks” posed now succeeded in killing off the tortoises years ago, opposing the interests of the small-time cattle rancher would have been more difficult. There’s nothing like an environmental premise as a foundation for effective tyranny. Naturally, the coexistence of the Bundy cattle and the desert tortoise for all of these years does call into question the legitimacy of the government position and the validity of the supposed threat the cattle pose. The Huffington Post exposed the federal hypocrisy and outright lies. Their report from August of last year details how a lack of funding was being faulted for plans to kill the tortoises being held in a 220 acre conservation center in the same area. Given the incredible amount of manpower and equipment being used to evict the Bundys, one wonders how long the tortoise center could have remained operational if that money had merely been spent on what the Feds now claim to be the actual motive of their operations. One also wonders if they still plan to kill of the tortoises, is there any other rational explanation for the Bundy evictions? If the decision has been made that the tortoises must go, and there isn’t oil to be drilled, why can’t the Bundy’s stay? Rick Wells is a conservative author who believes an adherence the U.S. Constitution would solve many of today’s problems. “Like” him on Facebook and “Follow” him on Twitter. | |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Does the above article make any sense?
I've had the opinion for years that the government wants to take over all the ranches and farms. Control the food...Control the people.
Edited by Nevertooold 2014-04-11 11:48 AM
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Nevertooold - 2014-04-11 11:38 AM
Does the above article make any sense?
I read this. But I am not sure it is credible. I am not sure the blog is talking about the land that is in question. The leases they talk about are in northern Nevada. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jbhoot - 2014-04-11 11:53 AM Nevertooold - 2014-04-11 11:38 AM Does the above article make any sense? I read this. But I am not sure it is credible. I am not sure the blog is talking about the land that is in question. The leases they talk about are in northern Nevada.
I don't think grazing leases would stand in the way of fracking. You could do both. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-04-11 11:38 AM
Does the above article make any sense?
I've had the opinion for years that the government wants to take over all the ranches and farms. Control the food...Control the people.
**** sure does! Follow the money! | |
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Folks on-line