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Location: Exactly where I am supposed to be | DD2012 - 2013-11-26 8:29 PM
I wasn't joking.
Where is it getting ugly
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
  
Location: Florida.. | it has been a pretty good discussion | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | magic gunsmoke - 2013-11-26 8:48 PM Figured I would add more to the awesomeness of this thread:
I personally am in it to win it. Sure, I love the adrenaline rush-but I am striving and working towards the day where I am the one that sets the pace.
I don't think people really realize the amount of work it truly takes to be at the top.
Yes-one component of it is having the horse with the ability, but that is only one component.
GOOD training is a huge factor. GOOD training takes tons of hours in the saddle, tons of time to do things the right way, and not going for quick fixes.
And then there is also working on rider ability. Think of how many hours an olympic athlete puts into practice? It is the same in the barrel horse industry.
To succeed you must do your homework. It is my humble opinion that luck may play a "small" role, but doing your homework and putting the time in playes a much larger role.
Those that win didn't do it out of sheer luck-they win because they have taken the time to do their homework and figure out what training methods work best to make a winning combination.
I personally know several people who make their living and make money off of their barrel horses.
I do not mean this to sound snarky in any way, but it is also my humble opinion that most horses could easily run in the 4th division.
Therefore----I am not a fan of even payout. I greatly appreciate divisions though....because as of now that is where I am at...LOL
I agree with almost everything you said, but I would like to see the "balance sheet" of those people who think they make very much money. If you consider all the costs of everything, then I think you are talking about very few people. Oh they are out there, but we are talking about a tiny fraction. I say this often, mainly to serve as a reminder to young people that they need to keep a realistic perspective. That's all. I wish things were different, but that's the reality. I think some people squander everything they have and then some in pursuit of something that is a very very long shot, to say the least. They win a few barrel races, and some even win a lot, but it's a drop in the bucket, compared to the total cost. It's good to dream, | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | magic gunsmoke - 2013-11-26 8:48 PM Figured I would add more to the awesomeness of this thread:
I personally am in it to win it. Sure, I love the adrenaline rush-but I am striving and working towards the day where I am the one that sets the pace.
I don't think people really realize the amount of work it truly takes to be at the top.
Yes-one component of it is having the horse with the ability, but that is only one component.
GOOD training is a huge factor. GOOD training takes tons of hours in the saddle, tons of time to do things the right way, and not going for quick fixes.
And then there is also working on rider ability. Think of how many hours an olympic athlete puts into practice? It is the same in the barrel horse industry.
To succeed you must do your homework. It is my humble opinion that luck may play a "small" role, but doing your homework and putting the time in playes a much larger role.
Those that win didn't do it out of sheer luck-they win because they have taken the time to do their homework and figure out what training methods work best to make a winning combination.
I personally know several people who make their living and make money off of their barrel horses.
I do not mean this to sound snarky in any way, but it is also my humble opinion that most horses could easily run in the 4th division.
Therefore----I am not a fan of even payout. I greatly appreciate divisions though....because as of now that is where I am at...LOL
I agree with almost everything you said, but I would like to see the "balance sheet" of those people who think they make very much money. If you consider all the costs of everything, then I think you are talking about very few people. Oh they are out there, but we are talking about a tiny fraction. I say this often, mainly to serve as a reminder to young people that they need to keep a realistic perspective. That's all. I wish things were different, but that's the reality. I think some people squander everything they have and then some in pursuit of something that is a very very long shot, to say the least. They win a few barrel races, and some even win a lot, but it's a drop in the bucket, compared to the total cost. It's good to dream, | |
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Location: Exactly where I am supposed to be | Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.  | |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | dianeguinn - 2013-11-26 7:52 PM
AllAroundRider - 2013-11-26 7:02 PM
DLV - 2013-11-26 4:02 PM Just like communism.... it gives you NOTHING to work up to if you can make the SAME amount running slower.....
This arguement irks me to no end. I have yet to meet anyone that barrel races that would say they don't want to get faster because the 4D just pays too good. Barrel racers are competitive by nature otherwise why the hell we would we put in the blood, sweat, and tears and pay the thousands upon thousands to play the game?
Well, you haven't gone enough. I know several who are perfectly content going the speed they are, and have told me more than once that they don't want a faster horse, and that they make more money in the 4D than others do in the faster D....which is true. Let me tell you a true story. I used to be 1D rider fifteen years ago. I was one of those that when I showed up, people expected me to set the pace. I didn't always do it, but the large majority of the time, my horse was in the top of the 1D or won the whole thing. Then that horse got hurt and I went back to riding colts. Got one more like that 7 years later and once again, was expected to do well if I showed up. Sold that horse for a ton of money. Now, at 61 years of age, I have to work VERY hard on my confidence and my body to even be able to ride a 3D horse. The horse I ride is capable of 1D, and the rare days I ride him well, he runs there. More often than not, I run 3D/4D. I have NEVER complained about how much I won in the 3D/4d. I was just grateful I got a check for running slow. Fast forward to last week. Have been working really hard on letting my horse run and work a little more toward his potential and was 2nd in the 2D in a very tough crowd. Due to the cold, there was only 18 in the jackpot...that didn't lessen the level of toughness because the top people were still there. Mark Bugni won it (google his name if you don't know what he's been winning in the last few years ) and won $34. Jyme Beth Cochrane (former 3 time IPRA champ, last year's CRRA finals average winner, etc. ) was 2nd and won $29. The entry fee was $30. I got 2nd in the 2D and was SO excited because I finally thought I would get a little more money by being in the lower D's, and was so excited to run a half second off Mark and Jyme Beth....well I got $29 also. Found out it was equal pay (which I should have checked before I ran, but those races had always been sliding scale, but this was a new group putting them on, so they decided to change ), so that's why none of us got very much. Think Mark will be back to run that good horse and set the D's the next time? I know I won't be back again to lose a dollar with a good run....what will happen if they continue with equal pay is that the races will get slower and slower because the good horses will go where they can win more money, and the slow ones will go to the equal pay races. So fast forward again....you buy a horse that runs 1D at the equal pay races thinking you have a 1D horse and then go to a big NBHA show....you'll be lucky to even be in the D's....so how happy do you think you will be with your purchase? Equal payouts may make the people that place in the higher D's happy, but pretty soon that's all that will be running there, and IMO, the numbers WILL suffer...it will just take awhile.
Guess I just hang out with people that are motivated and driven. I don't doubt there are people that are content with where they are at but I am willing to bet if you put a poll up, the majority will want to get better and make those 1D runs. I'm just sick and tired of people wanting to generalize the lower D's are some how complacent and don't work as hard as the 1D group.
As I said before I prefer sliding scale unless equal payouts pull more entrants which would mean a bigger check for everyone. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| God Is My Light - 2013-11-26 9:06 PM
Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.
Then why didn't you say that?
Instead you attempted, badly, but you attempted non the less to stir the pot further.
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| AllAroundRider - 2013-11-26 10:07 PM dianeguinn - 2013-11-26 7:52 PM AllAroundRider - 2013-11-26 7:02 PM DLV - 2013-11-26 4:02 PM Just like communism.... it gives you NOTHING to work up to if you can make the SAME amount running slower..... This arguement irks me to no end. I have yet to meet anyone that barrel races that would say they don't want to get faster because the 4D just pays too good. Barrel racers are competitive by nature otherwise why the hell we would we put in the blood, sweat, and tears and pay the thousands upon thousands to play the game? Well, you haven't gone enough. I know several who are perfectly content going the speed they are, and have told me more than once that they don't want a faster horse, and that they make more money in the 4D than others do in the faster D....which is true. Let me tell you a true story. I used to be 1D rider fifteen years ago. I was one of those that when I showed up, people expected me to set the pace. I didn't always do it, but the large majority of the time, my horse was in the top of the 1D or won the whole thing. Then that horse got hurt and I went back to riding colts. Got one more like that 7 years later and once again, was expected to do well if I showed up. Sold that horse for a ton of money. Now, at 61 years of age, I have to work VERY hard on my confidence and my body to even be able to ride a 3D horse. The horse I ride is capable of 1D, and the rare days I ride him well, he runs there. More often than not, I run 3D/4D. I have NEVER complained about how much I won in the 3D/4d. I was just grateful I got a check for running slow. Fast forward to last week. Have been working really hard on letting my horse run and work a little more toward his potential and was 2nd in the 2D in a very tough crowd. Due to the cold, there was only 18 in the jackpot...that didn't lessen the level of toughness because the top people were still there. Mark Bugni won it (google his name if you don't know what he's been winning in the last few years ) and won $34. Jyme Beth Cochrane (former 3 time IPRA champ, last year's CRRA finals average winner, etc. ) was 2nd and won $29. The entry fee was $30. I got 2nd in the 2D and was SO excited because I finally thought I would get a little more money by being in the lower D's, and was so excited to run a half second off Mark and Jyme Beth....well I got $29 also. Found out it was equal pay (which I should have checked before I ran, but those races had always been sliding scale, but this was a new group putting them on, so they decided to change ), so that's why none of us got very much. Think Mark will be back to run that good horse and set the D's the next time? I know I won't be back again to lose a dollar with a good run....what will happen if they continue with equal pay is that the races will get slower and slower because the good horses will go where they can win more money, and the slow ones will go to the equal pay races. So fast forward again....you buy a horse that runs 1D at the equal pay races thinking you have a 1D horse and then go to a big NBHA show....you'll be lucky to even be in the D's....so how happy do you think you will be with your purchase? Equal payouts may make the people that place in the higher D's happy, but pretty soon that's all that will be running there, and IMO, the numbers WILL suffer...it will just take awhile. Guess I just hang out with people that are motivated and driven. I don't doubt there are people that are content with where they are at but I am willing to bet if you put a poll up, the majority will want to get better and make those 1D runs. I'm just sick and tired of people wanting to generalize the lower D's are some how complacent and don't work as hard as the 1D group. As I said before I prefer sliding scale unless equal payouts pull more entrants which would mean a bigger check for everyone.
I hope I did not give that impression to you by any of my posts.
I have been a witness to what it takes to make several nice solid 1D horses. There are a lot of factors that I think people have to evaluate when wanting to move up.
It may be having to admit that the horse doesn't have the ability(some people don't want to admit that), or there is not enough time in a schedule to allow the ride time that is needed, or maybe the rider doesn't know what to get accomplished while working the horse....
What I have witnessed is those that are at the top are constantly tuning and refining their work.
You hual to a show-you do several warm ups, run if the horse works as it should-if it doesn't you are in that arena AFTER the show getting something accomplished...and then you are back at it the next morning. If that doesn't work-you regroup that week and come up with another training plan....and implement it. Heck-sometimes a horse is ridden three times in one day....at least from what I have witnessed. You do whatever you can to make the horse more broke and know you are on the right track when a horse can lay down several back to back consistent runs...and then you continue.
IMO not many people are that dedicated.
I will never forget this summer I was at a horse show and during my two runs my horse leaned in and shouldered the second barrel. They ended up being clean, but the second barrel was less then ideal.
After the show I remember thinking...I should be schooling my horse right now, and my friend said-Just let it be.
Next day-first thing my trainer asks me is why I didn't tune my horse after the show...LOL
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Location: Exactly where I am supposed to be | DD2012 - 2013-11-26 9:12 PM
God Is My Light - 2013-11-26 9:06 PM
Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.
Then why didn't you say that?
Instead you attempted, badly, but you attempted non the less to stir the pot further.
I am sorry, honestly I wasn't trying to stir anything .......some of the other pages it was getting slightly heated ..........I was just trying to have fun...... | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | God Is My Light - 2013-11-27 1:25 PM
DD2012 - 2013-11-26 9:12 PM
God Is My Light - 2013-11-26 9:06 PM
Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.
Then why didn't you say that?
Instead you attempted, badly, but you attempted non the less to stir the pot further.
I am sorry, honestly I wasn't trying to stir anything .......some of the other pages it was getting slightly heated ..........I was just trying to have fun......
Your idea of fun and mine are two different things. I have read every post on these 10 pages and you are the only poster 10 pages later to return trying to stir up trouble. There have been other attempts but they have given up. I suggest you do the same.
I have refrained from posting until now but I too will add my two cents worth. I believe whole heartedly in the divisional system and believe whole heartedly that the horse/s to set the pace should be rewarded with a higher payout.
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
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I've been the minority contrarian and have found nothing close to insulting or uncivil. Where's the ugly? | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| barrelracr131 - 2013-11-26 12:33 AM Around here, I don't think I've ever seen an equal payout race.
Like the D system or not, I think overall, it's good for the industry. It gives value to the horses that may not ever have the ability to hit the 1D. It also allows producers to host larger races at better facilities and still make money.
For family-geared organizations, like NBHA and IBRA, it allows kids to measurably work up through the Ds, and maybe still win a little something along the way. Same goes for me as a weekend rider. In addition, it rewards the hard work of those running for points and rewards their dedication with end of year awards.
I think progressive payout is the way to go, personally. The fastest division should pay better. However, the D system, despite its "socialist" overtones (lol) still does more good than harm for the industry. Jmo
That is a rational and intellectually honest argument. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
Yept, She sure does remind me of another BB that used to be on here, and I bet it is you  | |
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | DD2012 - 2013-11-26 10:12 PM
God Is My Light - 2013-11-26 9:06 PM
Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.
Then why didn't you say that?
Instead you attempted, badly, but you attempted non the less to stir the pot further.
You're a bully. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| *robin* - 2013-11-27 6:04 AM
DD2012 - 2013-11-26 10:12 PM
God Is My Light - 2013-11-26 9:06 PM
Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.
Then why didn't you say that?
Instead you attempted, badly, but you attempted non the less to stir the pot further.
You're a bully.
It's been said
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | DD2012 - 2013-11-27 8:37 AM
*robin* - 2013-11-27 6:04 AM
DD2012 - 2013-11-26 10:12 PM
God Is My Light - 2013-11-26 9:06 PM
Bibliafarm - 2013-11-26 8:56 PM
it has been a pretty good discussion
Yes Ma'am, did not mean any disrespect for anyone. But was just saying it was a pretty heated discussion with really educated people I like it when people actually discus it intelligently rather then cussing and insulting each other.
Then why didn't you say that?
Instead you attempted, badly, but you attempted non the less to stir the pot further.
You're a bully.
It's been said
You da man, woman whatever the case may be...and to think all this time I thought you were just another creeper. 
So how 'bout those divisional races and equal payout. Stinks, huh? | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I don't see any bullying on this thread. Where is the "bullying"?
People seem to be quick to toss the bully label these days. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-27 8:10 AM I don't see any bullying on this thread. Where is the "bullying"? People seem to be quick to toss the bully label these days.
It's en vogue | |
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I Will Not Keep Silent
Posts: 1922
Location: GA | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-27 9:10 AM
I don't see any bullying on this thread. Where is the "bullying"?
People seem to be quick to toss the bully label these days.
Well they called me a bully first so of course it makes it right for me to call them a bully. I was defending myself because someone thought my thoughts that I can back of with fact was insane, then then he accused me of being a bully...but but if y'all hurt my feelings I am just going to quit posting and take my toys somewhere else.
Seriously please tell me that this is all in fun and peeps do not think otherwise? All these post with those popcorn things and camping out just crack me up.  Really go watch msnbc. They will keep you in stitches.
Again equal pay in the divisional races stink. | |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I feel so old - I remember barrel racing with no money added and running for that year end trophy or blue ribbon and ended up with a pink one. I was just so excited to get out there an have fun with my horse and see my friends. | |
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