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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
   
Location: ND | bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
me too... | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:09 PM .....
And what I was trying to point out on the bottom line remark is -- why does the PRCA deserve SO much of an increase? Normally, there is an exchange with negotiations. For instance, Vegas says "hey, I'll give you 40% more money" and the PRCA will promise a percentage increase in LVE's travel dollars. I don't see the NFR blowing up and going mainstream anytime soon -- Vegas or no Vegas -- so the PRCA is getting a lot for a little.
Wonder how long it's been in the works? 90 days is SUCH a short amount of time for such a large operation with astronomical variables.
I get your point. If I were the PRCA, my response would be that Vegas's economic impact has grown to over $200 million and that PRCA hasn't grown equally because, in 30 years, Vegas has failed to provide facilities to accomodate growth in the actual event.
Vegas needs to either provide added money as a participation in the economic impact it provides or provide accomodations that allow PRCA to grow it's event.
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | Here is another post shared on Facebook .....from a competitor...
As I lay here and read comment after comment on the Nfr topic of moving it somewhere else, it starts to bug me a little. Lve put the information out there for a reason to raise hype which is exactly what it's doing. The prca has not agreed nor signed anything to move the Nfr to Florida or any other destination. The vote was solely to decline a less than respectable offer that lve had on the table. And before people goes bashing the prca they should get some facts straight. Lve's offer was a 10 year contract that was less than that of inflation. Diesel is already $4.00/gallon in 10 years it may double it did in the last 10 years. Therefore it would not be feasible for anyone to rodeo and without competitors there is no rodeo/Nfr. Vegas has a great thing going but not only for our livelihood but for the next generation and others to follow we have to take a stand and that's what the prca has done. It is a step in the right direction and for the ones saying it's their dream to ride in the Thomas and Mack, moving the Nfr takes nothing away from the prestige of making it to the greatest rodeo on earth but it allows us to make a better living and to keep rodeo moving forward. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 806
Location: Arkansas | I'm just going to throw this out there as a wife of a member..
The Southeastern Circuit Finals are held in Davie, FL.. Very close to Miami/Fort Lauderdale. They pay their fees, add a lot of money, and I believe it was sold out each night. If it wasn't it darn sure was packed, and it was pouring down rain. They (the Seminole's) have the money to put up. But, from what my husband is being told (he is a member, was not at the NFR, but our friends were there as contestants) FL is not the only money being offered. Las Vegas' offer was declined, and they put out a somewhat truthful, yet well-written press release in hopes of the fan base turning on the PRCA. Please remember that this is how they make their living. We all need each other. Fans want a rodeo and contestants want to rodeo. I am certain that there are many details that are not being made known that will shed more light for us all. | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | CJE - 2013-12-16 3:29 PM Here is another post shared on Facebook .....from a competitor...
As I lay here and read comment after comment on the Nfr topic of moving it somewhere else, it starts to bug me a little. Lve put the information out there for a reason to raise hype which is exactly what it's doing. The prca has not agreed nor signed anything to move the Nfr to Florida or any other destination. The vote was solely to decline a less than respectable offer that lve had on the table. And before people goes bashing the prca they should get some facts straight. Lve's offer was a 10 year contract that was less than that of inflation. Diesel is already $4.00/gallon in 10 years it may double it did in the last 10 years. Therefore it would not be feasible for anyone to rodeo and without competitors there is no rodeo/Nfr. Vegas has a great thing going but not only for our livelihood but for the next generation and others to follow we have to take a stand and that's what the prca has done. It is a step in the right direction and for the ones saying it's their dream to ride in the Thomas and Mack, moving the Nfr takes nothing away from the prestige of making it to the greatest rodeo on earth but it allows us to make a better living and to keep rodeo moving forward.
now that's the first actual intelligent PR directed comment from one these guys that been posted | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
You're right. The $200k impact is probably pretty accurate and more that half of that is gaming revenue. There aren't many places that can come close. However, most cities won't need near that kind of impact in order to consider it a success. If the economic impact to Orland is only $10 Million over ten days, will they consider it a success? | |
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Regular
Posts: 91
| bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day.  Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
Like I said, I in no way speak to the accuracy of those figures. The $200,000,000 figure I heard was most likely a gross number. A figure of $90 million non gaming revenue has been mentioned on several accounts also, which makes the $200 million total impact figure a little more believable to me. If you look at how many related events that are held in conjunction with the finals, along with the presence of all Las Vegas has to offer (i.e. gambling), it really isn't to hard to start thinking those figures are not that "out there".
I wouldn't truly trust figures presented by either side. Each side will act in there own self interest with numbers and arguments presented. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 806
Location: Arkansas | I am in no way business minded, but the World Series Team Roping Finals were held the same week at the Southpoint. The way they have those ropings set up keeps the ropers there for the majority of the week. My dad ran his first steer on Sunday, second steer on Wednesday and the short round on Saturday. His friend ran his first steer on Thursday with the short round on Sunday. When you consider the number of ropers to each roping, their families, shopping and rooms because people are coming from all over the country.. that also generates a LOT of income, not to mention the Bronc Futurity Finals that is also held there. | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:41 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR. Like I said, I in no way speak to the accuracy of those figures. The $200,000,000 figure I heard was most likely a gross number. A figure of $90 million non gaming revenue has been mentioned on several accounts also, which makes the $200 million total impact figure a little more believable to me. If you look at how many related events that are held in conjunction with the finals, along with the presence of all Las Vegas has to offer (i.e. gambling ), it really isn't to hard to start thinking those figures are not that "out there". I wouldn't truly trust figures presented by either side. Each side will act in there own self interest with numbers and arguments presented.
and that's a good point....is the WTRC going to move it's event out of Las Vegas????......that's a huge draw for vegas at that time that also contributes to the numbers we are talking about......maybe as big as the NFR just because of the number of contestants and their families????? | |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM
Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day.  Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
Bo, i was thinking about this last night.
If you figure that T&M holds 18k(round number) and safely assume that conservatively there are twice that many people in town just for the nfr that is 36k a day in town for that draw.
At a conservative $700 a day for each person, that's all in room, food, ent. shopping. you are talking about $250,000,000 over 10 days.
I'm not nearly as business savy as yellowhorse, but seems to me that someones holding out on someone.
I think that if this comes down to a battle of smarts that the RCA is going to be left wanting. I hope that LVE comes back with something that they can live with and this get's put to bed because I have a seriously hard time believing that any other venue will draw people like Vegas does. ANd the plain and simple fact of this deal is without the people draw the money goes away..
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:41 PM Like I said, I in no way speak to the accuracy of those figures. The $200,000,000 figure I heard was most likely a gross number. A figure of $90 million non gaming revenue has been mentioned on several accounts also, which makes the $200 million total impact figure a little more believable to me. If you look at how many related events that are held in conjunction with the finals, along with the presence of all Las Vegas has to offer (i.e. gambling), it really isn't to hard to start thinking those figures are not that "out there". I wouldn't truly trust figures presented by either side. Each side will act in there own self interest with numbers and arguments presented.
Those number are probably pretty accurate. Cut them in half and they're still big numbers. | |
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 Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304
Location: Texas | TXBO - 2013-12-16 3:35 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
It's still a stretch. First, you'd have your cost of 16 million (which isn't capturing all the costs since they'll be building facilities, infrastructure, paying for all the city services, etc). Then, if you're wanting a profit of $10 million, the revenue associated would have to be somewhere around the $25 million mark as a guestimate coming to a total of $41 million over 10 days which, again, is a stretch (in my mind at least) for a town that's not set up like Vegas (gambling and shows are off the table). | |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:59 PM
TXBO - 2013-12-16 3:35 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day.  Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
if your trying to associate those revenue numbers with any other venue but Vegas I think it would be way off.
Again, as i was told earlier from yellow, if the moneys there it's a good thing. It matters not one bit if anyone shows up or not.
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 Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | I haven't read this thread, because I'm at work and don't have time at the moment. But the idea of Las Vegas having a "new finals" isn't really a surprise. As soon as the PRCA lost Houston & Calgary, I mentioned it coming down to there being an Invitational NFR that was bigger (& better) than the real NFR. There is really no reason for a rodeo to be sanctioned by the PRCA anymore. They will get the cowboy talent if they add enough $$. Today's cowboys have no loyalty and will go where the money is. Going to an "amateur" rodeo has no stigma attached. Just sit back and watch the PRCA implode upon itself. Sad, really... When I see Gold Buckle wearers turning out at a $5000 added rodeo, and competing at a non-PRCA sanctioned rodeo down the road 100 or less miles for $500 added, I just sit and wonder...
Pardon my rambling, but I'm swamped at work, AND I keep getting texts & emails from friends asking about the NFR drama. Like I have any answers!!! lol
Happy Monday, All!
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:59 PM TXBO - 2013-12-16 3:35 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
An average ticket price of $67 covers the $16 Million in a sold out arena with a capacity of 24,000.
Concessions pay the rest of the bills.
At one time, Vegas estimated that every NFR visitor spent $1300 during NFR week and an additional $230 in gaming. Cut that back to $1000, skip the gaming and the economic impact for 45,000 people would be $45 Million in additonal revenues.
Disclosure: My numbers are over 10 years old and rounded to my best recollection. | |
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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | TXBO - 2013-12-16 3:07 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day. Where's all that revenue coming from?
The return is in local economic activity.
Had Vegas addressed a solution for a larger arena, this would never be an issue.
The MGM is building an arena.
karen | |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| TXBO - 2013-12-16 4:13 PM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:59 PM TXBO - 2013-12-16 3:35 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 3:19 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 3:10 PM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-16 2:58 PM Haulin@$$ - 2013-12-16 2:52 PM I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, a part of your argument appears to be premised on the belief that they (LVE) was paying the PRCA at "market value" for their part of the deal. I probably have a little more inside info to this situation than the average person, but it is not just Florida that came in higher than Las Vegas....there were several parties. Seems like this is the first time Las Vegas has had any real competition for the finals, and their historic severe undervaluation of the PRCA/NFR is being exposed. I fully agree with your last paragraph though, and that is the part of this whole deal that would spook me. That being said though, I would bet the NFR ends up staying in Vegas. I would also bet that if it does not stay in Vegas that it will not end up in Florida. ETA: I intended on quoting Bocephus' Mama's last post. I absolutely am lacking inside info BUT I'm wondering what the PRCA would be happy with in general? It's really tough to nail down a market value since it's been in the same place (that is VERY unique) for 30 years. It's only 10 days of rodeo. How much return is a town going to get on $16 MILLON bucks? Break even for the town is $1.6 million a day.  Where's all that revenue coming from? I really don't know what it would take to make everybody happy. If I was spearheading this deal I would be willing to accept somewhat less from Las Vegas, as it is a proven commodity, but it would still have to be in the same ball park as the other offers. I agree that it is extremely tough, if not impossible, to nail down an exact market value for an event like the finals. I have no clue what an appropriate ROI is for this type of event. I have heard the $200,000,000 figure getting kicked around for total economic impact generated by the NFR (no idea if that is accurate or not ), and based on that figure a $16 million dollar investment seams to be an undervaluation. From the numbers I have heard getting kicked around, the NFR wasn't even the highest contestant paying event in Las Vegas during the finals (world series of team roping ). That to me is unacceptable. Like I said earlier though, I really think Vegas will rally and keep the NFR.
Concessions pay the rest of the bills.
At one time, Vegas estimated that every NFR visitor spent $1300 during NFR week and an additional $230 in gaming.  Cut that back to $1000, skip the gaming and the economic impact for 45,000 people would be $45 Million in additonal revenues.
Disclosure: My numbers are over 10 years old and rounded to my best recollection.Â
Holy hell
I wish my wife and daughter could figure out how to go to Vegas for $1300 a week.
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 Expert
Posts: 1257
Location: Colorado plains standing on a goat head! | horsecrazy45 - 2013-12-16 11:35 AM kickincans - 2013-12-15 9:36 PM Well everyone has an opinion and I may be the odd one but I think it does need to move, it's time to find an arena that will make this a RODEO again, room for the team roping,instead of a sling out of the box with no where to go strap em out and watch a real roping, a bigger barrel pattern let em really run, and not so much about the glitz of Vegas more about the Rodeo, it may not be Florida but I think it's time for a change so why not move it to South Point if it stays in Vegas thats a nice arena
Southpoint is a nice arena and they are adding 2 more next year, but the main arena only seats 4,600 so not much revenue there. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | I am not going to address the money issue as there are far too many speculative figures floating around.
However, as a fan I will address the 'How dare they move it' attitude. Never once have I said, 'I want to go to Vagas.' The WHOLE POINT is going to the NFR!! Yes the bright lights are pretty and people gamble, but I repeat, THE WHOLE POINT is the NFR. If people are only going to Vegas for everything else, and the Rodeo is just there in hindsight, well they can still have a vacation and gamble, go to clubs etc and watch the NFR on TV.
As Fatchance said on another thread - if she was at the NFR for the 10 days, all she would want to do is go to the rodeo. I totally agree. All the window dressings are just extras. The cowboys and cowgirls who have slogged it out with blood, sweat and tears all year. The horses and rough stock, the highs and lows; the excitement and despair of the sport that is Rodeo. THIS is the drawcard. I hope fans really look at the message their idols are sending Vegas and support these Cowboys and Cowgirls and pause a little before they get up in arms about missing out on the flashing lights of Vegas IF and it is still a big IF, the NFR moves.
I know on the internet you cannot see emotion or hear my tone of voice, but I am speaking here from the heart as a huge Rodeo fan/competitor and supporter of what the NFR competitors want.
Flame away, I have my jeans and boots on and horses to ride - I'll check back later. | |
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 Member
Posts: 14
| The NFR Experience just posted that after 2014 the NFR will not be held in Vegas any more will be moved to Osceola County, Florida. Here's the link --> http://www.nfrexperience.com/news/read/79 .... I'm kinda saddened by this news.. cause like most all barrel racers my dreams are to be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack. But what now? and also its going to hurt the fans because ticket prices are going to be raised like 40%! Not excited by this news, not one bit. | |
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