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![](<a href="http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/alicat0909/?action=view¤t=yellaandcalf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1191.photobu) Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
 
Location: Texas | This asked for opinions and I gave mine. Yes I have some facts wrong. My mistake. I only read about it in a magazine to what seems to be a long time ago. I've forgotten qhat actually took place. My mistake.
I stand by the fact that men in a professional arena have won more than women. Roughstock is hard and even in wpra women can ride two handed. Not very equal. And even though women can ride prca how many have you seen ride on a big stage?I have no issue competeing alongside men. Just as a traditional stand point keep it for women.
Yeah I'm pretty old fashioned. I think women shouldn't be in combat, men are the bread winners, and women are the home makers. and no I wouldnt ever compete against my husband as he wouldn't compete against me. Its a respect for one another. Instead of trying to one up the other person we help. I've cheered him on and dusted him off at bull ridings and he saddled my horses many of times. We just aren't that competitive couple. Thats fine I don't judge couples who are so why should what I believe be shot down without a second thought?
I NEVER said brute strength was what made a good horseman. I said men are more aggressive and generally have less fear than women. Even hotbearlvr saidthis is a male dominated world. There is nothong wrong with that. They have worked hard for it and deserve credit where credit is due. Women can be right along side of them if theu work hard enough. And the women have gone on and competed next to those male world champions and won. I will be the first to stand and applaude. If a woman competed in rough stock I'd be her biggest supporter. If a man went and won the NFR in barrel racing I'd be his biggest fan. This issue will probably never directly affect me. And that's okay. Sorry I don't exactly use my words well! Several other ldies have said what I wanted to in a much better way! Again I apologize for ruffling any feathers and not knowing how to get my point across.
Sorry for any typos my phone has tiny keys :)
ETA: No I do not think events like cutting, reining penning ect ect are events for men. As far as I know they've always been open to all genders. I said those sports as a whole on a professional level are dominated by men. Not made for men they are just ones who win all the time. No harm no foul they earned it.
Edited by Alicat0909 2014-03-06 11:07 PM
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Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | elmer fud - 2014-03-06 8:43 PM
Bottom line has anyone seen women any NFR event besides the barrel race. They may can enter , but they cannot beat men in the other events. Some women do enter team roping, but in certain score lines they can't be as competitive when a man can throw harder, and much longer loop.
What he/she said. |
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Grammar Expert
  
| Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:44 PM smiley - 2014-03-06 1:37 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 11:22 AM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events.
Are you referring to the lawsuit between the PRCA and the WPRA when Troy Ellerman's board of directors tried to bring the barrel racing in-house? Several years ago sherri (I think it was sherri cervi ) and a few other top women tried to form the Professional Barrel Racers Association and prca was going to sanction them instead of wpra because wpra wasn't putting up the prize money at the NFR. the prca was. WPRA sued, won, PBRA was killed and PRCA stopped publishing anything about WPRA in the PSN
Well, you are kinda right but I don't believe it was started or even championed by Sherry. In fact, it was an OLD idea that had been revived with Ellerman was the commissioner. It was his BOD that put it into place, not one person. There were some that were for it and some that were against it. The WPRA won that battle, although I do believe they will probably hvae to do it again down the road.
As for the PSN, they didn't print too dang much before that on the WPRA gals, but they printed some. The WPRA has their own magazine and their own sponsors, so in this particular case, I think the PSN has a point.
I've always thought that they should just be in one building and use one staff and have either two BODs or have equal numbers on the BOD like the other events do, but that would mean that there can't be two presidents and two vice presidents and some of the bennies stop for those who get them and we know how everyone hates change. We'll see how it shakes out down the road. |
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 Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 8:59 PM
elmer fud - 2014-03-06 8:43 PM
Bottom line has anyone seen women any NFR event besides the barrel race. They may can enter , but they cannot beat men in the other events. Some women do enter team roping, but in certain score lines they can't be as competitive when a man can throw harder, and much longer loop.
What he/she said.
About 10 years ago, Tammy West White wasn't too far out of making the NFR. Here's a little bit from a 2009 BARREL HORSE NEWS:
"Once she started, White never looked back. Her heeler in high school was multiple National Finals Rodeo qualifier Daniel Green. In the late 1990s, she got her pro rodeo permit so she could go with her husband Ryan. She roped with Whip Lewis while she had her permit and at some of the bigger rodeos like Reno, but once she had her card, Ryan was her main partner.
"The first year we went a lot, from San Antonio, Texas, to Prineville, Ore.," recalls White. "We went to about 30 or 40 rodeos. It was a blast. The next few years we started staying around home and made the circuit finals a couple of times."
White gained national attention through ESPN's coverage of the early PRCA Wrangler Pro Tour Rodeos. They would televise the short round and White had made the cut at such major rodeos as Reno, Greeley, Colo., Vernal, Utah, and Salinas, Calif.
She's also made five appearances at the Bob Feist Invitational and qualified for the California Circuit Finals three times."
As mentioned above, Kaila Mussell made it to her Circuit Finals in Saddle Bronc...
I guess it's all a matter of how bad you want it.
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | I have not read through the ten pages of bickering here but I do think that if we want to take barrel racing and rodeo in general to the next level some people have to start thinking out of the box. Rodeo and barrel racing are great entertaining sports, why have the other sports passed us by ????? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Mighty Broke - 2014-03-07 3:31 PM
I have not read through the ten pages of bickering here but I do think that if we want to take barrel racing and rodeo in general to the next level some people have to start thinking out of the box. Rodeo and barrel racing are great entertaining sports, why have the other sports passed us by ?????
Actually, there has only been some bickering on the last few pages. You should read the earlier ones. There was a lot of good information and insight. Some was just opinion, some interesting facts. Overall, it's been pretty informative. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Nita - 2014-03-07 4:36 PM Mighty Broke - 2014-03-07 3:31 PM I have not read through the ten pages of bickering here but I do think that if we want to take barrel racing and rodeo in general to the next level some people have to start thinking out of the box. Rodeo and barrel racing are great entertaining sports, why have the other sports passed us by ????? Actually, there has only been some bickering on the last few pages. You should read the earlier ones. There was a lot of good information and insight. Some was just opinion, some interesting facts. Overall, it's been pretty informative.
Good to hear---I'll have to go back and read it. |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Women fought long and hard to break down the walls of discrimination and we've come a long way.
Isn't it hypocritical in a way to say "no boys allowed" when we are the ones who have been fighting for equality for so long?
Doesn't seem right to me. Seems like there's a double standard. It's only discrimination when it's "no girls allowed" I guess.
And it doesn't matter if guys would or wouldn't want to run in the rodeos and run for the circuit finals or NFR. It's the fact that they can't.
You don't see a lot of women in the other events, but the fact is, they are allowed to compete if they so choose. So why is it ok to say "nope, sorry we can't let you run because of your gender" in barrels?
If everyone said "Well it's tradition for only wealthy male land owners to vote, so we shouldn't change it" back in the day, people would have still fought for equal rights to vote. But if it's keeping guys out of barrel racing at rodeos, it's a different story.
I guess I'm just confused. |
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 Saint Stacey
| We may have come a long way in the discrimation thing, but things are still not even close to being equal, IMHO.
Am I a hypocrit? Maybe. But, as I stated earlier... barrel racing was created BY women FOR women. Men have a lot of opportunties already when it comes to barrel racing. So they can't run at WPRA sanctioned barrel races. Get over it.
How many woman are in the NBA? NFL? MLB? NHL? How many professional sports are mixed? Very few. Nascar with one woman driver right now.
Men are making a darn good living training barrel horses, competing in futurities, big 4D's, slot races and they have open rodeo's. It isn't like they don't have options because the WPRA is closed to them.
Yes, I am a hypocrit because I say leave the WPRA alone and let woman have ONE venue that is soley for them.
Edited by SKM 2014-03-07 6:17 PM
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | SKM - 2014-03-07 6:13 PM We may have come a long way in the discrimation thing, but things are still not even close to being equal, IMHO.
Am I a hypocrit? Maybe. But, as I stated earlier... barrel racing was created BY women FOR women. Men have a lot of opportunties already when it comes to barrel racing. So they can't run at WPRA sanctioned barrel races. Get over it.
How many woman are in the NBA? NFL? MLB? NHL? How many professional sports are mixed? Very few. Nascar with one woman driver right now.
Men are making a darn good living training barrel horses, competing in futurities, big 4D's, slot races and they have open rodeo's. It isn't like they don't have options because the WPRA is closed to them.
Yes, I am a hypocrit because I say leave the WPRA alone and let woman have ONE venue that is soley for them.
Then I guess I'm a hypocrite too.  |
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Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | The WPRA is a private organization. They can set whatever rules they want. Just like LPGA... There are plenty of other places to take your money if you are a man, or prefer to compete against men.
They started as the GIRLS' Rodeo Assn, and modernized to the WOMENS' Professional Rodeo Assn. The market will decide if they survive. They've done well so far.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 1:50 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-06 12:39 PM Alicat0909 - 2014-03-06 12:22 PM sodapop - 2014-03-03 11:45 PM The PRCA should just ditch the WPRA and include barrel racing as part of the PRCA and include men. Then the men would be able to compete. Why do you think they won't do that? They were at odds one year with the WPRA and created a separate association for barrel racing and still didn't include men when they had the chance to make their own rules. They are a male dominated association. So why don't they make sure men are competing in barrel racing at their rodeos? As far as other rodeo associations, why aren't the men of those associations fighting for men to compete in the barrel racing at rodeos? WPRA will sue just like they did when Sherri tried to create the PBRA. Keep it traditional. Men have 8 other events. Women have one. At least that they can make it to the NFR on.And yes the PRCA may be open to women (idk havmt read rules lately ) but lets face it. Men are the superior gender and we can't compete with them in most of the events. When you look at riding abilities yes. Men are less inclined to be scared and are more aggressive. I love watching men run. They go all out! Its fun to watch and ot shows. Look at lance. Hes a master! Now this doesn't go for all men of course but for the majority. Anything horsey is dominated by men....except barrel racing. (Idk about englsh however ) my best mentors have been men. I learned so much more from them because they are so full on and expect perfection. They are hard on their students and it shows in the end result. I'm a better rider because of them. More aggressive no fear.
throw fear in there . gender plays no part in it. not in my world anyway.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-07 7:06 PM
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | I don't see how letting men run barrels at the NFR is going to promote rodeo as a sport! Maybe changing the format! |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Yep.....and it only took you ten pages to realize that????  |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-07 8:07 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Yep.....and it only took you ten pages to realize that????
Exactly, NJJ. Let's see if anyone disagrees with my statement that it is OK to ban someone from having the opportunity to compete at the NFR because of his gender. This is acceptable, I assume. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I dont have a bone in this but I truly think if women werent allowed there would be a huge issue here.. I also think just because riders of any gender in any of the events are allowed doesnt mean they will .. tradition is set and yes a few might but I dont think it will be what it is made out to be.. a major issue.I dont think anyone really should worry so much .. but im not running in it so who knows.I dont care to see a woman bullrider but to each his own.. i do love to watch the women at nfr.. if a man is in the mix I dont think Id not watch.lol
but tradition is tradition and I think most men will feel same.. but who knows..
you know in jumpers men are heavier but they arent to concerned if their mount can get over the big jumps quickly..and we all compete together ..lol.. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Yes |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Tradition is one thing. Selective discrimination based on gender is another.
Traditions change all the time, like it or not. Just because we have traditions doesn't mean they are sacrosanct. Some traditions change, and it winds up being for the better, even though at the time, such change was met with an uproar and resistance. Women's Suffrage, for example. Women being ensconsed in the home is another. Women helicopter and fighter pilots might be another.
It used to be a widely held "tradition" that black people couldn't sit at the same lunch counter, or sit in the front of a bus, or use the same water fountain or toilets. Those weren't necesssarily hard and fast laws.....at the time, they were traditions. It just so happened that those "traditions" were sometimes harshly enforced.
Interracial dating, traditionally was frowned upon.....and in some circles it still is.
One might say that a gay lifestyle was traditionally kept quiet......traditionally, gay men and women stayed in the closet and were forced my societal traditions and mores to live a double life.
Some traditions we generally wish to remain, while others change. Not all "tradition" is good and not all "tradition" makes sense.
Many civic organizations such as the Jaycees, Rotary, Lions, and Kiwanis used to be "men only". I believe the Supreme Court changed that, if I'm not mistaken. They too said they were "private".
Years ago there was something called "Boys Clubs of America". They tried to keep it that way by saying they were "private" clubs. In reality, they were public clubs......except for girls. Now we have "Boys and Girls Clubs of America". Is that a good thing? If the situation would have been the opposite and it started out as "Girls Clubs of America", would you all feel the same?
Again, right now, I think the WPRA should not be forced to do anything. The name alone is a deterrent! I think this may be one of those times when public pressure alone gradually forces change, as opposed to lawsuits.
Telling a man that he is not allowed to compete at a certain high level purely based on gender, under the guise of "tradition" won't last. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | my point is if men were allowed.. I in my opinion think.. most would think like andy .. support but not run.. i may be way wrong.. due to the past tradition..
that was all I was saying..not to go either way.. its wrong to say they cant.. but due to tradition.. i think most would feel awkward.. but I dont know.like the bullriding.. not many women are doing it although can.?
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-07 8:45 PM
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