|
|
 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
    
| Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-28 11:08 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-28 8:08 PM
Just for curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Melrose Plantation near Natchitoches LA? It was owned by a free woman of color who owned quite a few slaves. Her plantation was actually given to her by her owner who was the father of her children. Her descendants still own it today. I bet most people in the US know very little about her. Bet most people would like to forget that part of history too.
My mother took me on a trip years ago to tour the plantations in that area. (Think it was called The Pilgrimage?? ) We did go to Melrose Plantation, but I don't remember learning this info. Thanks for the lesson! I'm amazed at what I'm learning from this thread.
There is a home in Natchez MS that is named Melrose. It is actually a town house because it was in town. Ironically, it is now owned by the federal government as it is a national park. The Melrose in Natchitoches LA is not the same place and is still owned by Metoyers who are descendants of the original owner. I looked for information about Marie Coincoin owning slaves and the only site that had much information seemed to have a virus! |
|
| |
|
Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
|
It was about States Rights.
|
|
| |
|
Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| barrelracr131 - 2015-06-26 7:42 AM
Symbols mean different things to different people.
The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol.
Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov.
In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite.
While we find many people who feel that the Confederate flag represents their heritage and sacrifice, I really think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who feels that a swastika represents anything good. If you do find something good that it does represent, enlighten me.
Proud Daughter of The Confederacy.
By the way, I fly the REAL Stars And Bars in my front yard.
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-29 10:07 AM
|
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | banjomia - 2015-06-29 9:34 AM
musikmaker - 2015-06-25 4:50 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 3:35 PM Murphy - 2015-06-25 12:57 PM banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere.. KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive? NO..Once again you are missing the point of the confederate battle flag. The US flag was not founded and created for the intent of slavery. The Confederate battle flag was. Do you not understand that? The very meaning and creation of the confederate battle flag was because of the desire to fight against the government and the civil rights act. Comparing flying the US flag and the Confederate flags is like apples and oranges
A little history that I find interesting and bizarre as I'm sure you do, too, but we forget that once upon a time the peasants of the world were not allowed to know how to read. It was a serious crime to be caught 'reading'! Why? Because mankind can control the illiterate much easier than the educated. In the 1800's in America the blacks were learning to read! They then freed themselves.
Here we are today...and I really question our literacy, hence, the control that a governement is gaining on us...again.
I see this as a "stoop for that you'll stoop for this". It must stop, it's out of control!
"While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries."
You say it was about money..........but lets not confuse the two...slavery WAS money. The states seceded from the Union because they didn't want the government telling them they couldn't own slaves.
"King Cotton"....the south depended on it. The north profited from it. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
Edited by Bear 2015-06-29 10:30 AM
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | foundation horse - 2015-06-28 7:46 PM
Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM
Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple.
First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before.
Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war?
Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically.
I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air.
Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship.
What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
The idea of Lincoln shipping slaves out of America after the Civil War is buried in history texts. The African Country of Liberia is where Lincoln wanted to send them. Liberia is a nation founded by Freed Slaves. And Freed Slaves not blacks. Also going to 1791 a free black man sued and won in court the right to own slaves. This is historical fact that is not taught in history classes either. Lincoln was killed prior to attempting to complete his post Civil War Plan in regards to Freed Slaves.
And while The Civil War's first shot was fired at Ft. Sumter S.C. by The Seceded State of South Carolina, She was provoked by a Northern Naval Blockade!
It sounds to me that he definitely had a plan to relocate at least some of them. As to whether he was planning on doing it forceably will probably never be settled. Liberia has always credited the USA for it's formation. I think president Monroe was president at the time, hence the name of their Capitol, Monrovia. My impression is that Lincoln scrapped the idea, possibly mainly because he had bigger fish to fry, in the aftermath of the war and reconstruction.
So the first shots were fired by the South. Just like the first shots of the war with Japan was fired by the Japanese, who also claimed they were provoked by the oil embargo and the freezing of Japanese assets. Same thing.
|
|
| |
|
Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-29 10:39 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
It is huge gray area in the law. Maybe ,maybe not. Texas is the only state that really stands a chance based on how they entered the union. But even that is iffy. But if they decide to I am heading to Texas LOL!!!!!! |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen? |
|
| |
|
Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:44 AM
It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen?
Because we have a kajillion Mexicans with green cards that can vote for Democrats???? |
|
| |
|
Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:44 AM
It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen?
Money. ie. Soc.Sec. Medicare, Medicad |
|
| |
|
  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | streakysox - 2015-06-29 8:04 AM barrelracr131 - 2015-06-26 7:42 AM Symbols mean different things to different people. The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol. Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov. In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite. While we find many people who feel that the Confederate flag represents their heritage and sacrifice, I really think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who feels that a swastika represents anything good. If you do find something good that it does represent, enlighten me. Proud Daughter of The Confederacy. By the way, I fly the REAL Stars And Bars in my front yard.
We are collectors of Native Amerian works, some especially the Navajo used the "whirling log" symbol which looks like the swastika in baskets and rugs and jewlery. The natives quit using this "well being" symbol once hitler got a hold of it. Just a little history for ya. ;-) |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | jbhoot - 2015-06-29 10:51 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:44 AM
It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen?
Money. ie. Soc.Sec. Medicare, Medicad
Exactly. It's because we are enslaved....chained to the government because they provide us for things we ought to have provided for ourselves. We are, in a sense, enslaved. Secceession would relieve the government of any obligations to the 4 million Texans over 65, not to mention the millions over the age of say, 50, who have been counting on SS and Medicare to deliver when they reach 65. The illegals would just flock to liberal states like Colorado and California. We're trapped. People have paid in to the system based on a promise to pay us back, even though the return is minuscule. |
|
| |
|
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Lincoln didn't scrap the idea of deporting slaves, he was shot before the civil war was over. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-29 12:09 PM
Lincoln didn't scrap the idea of deporting slaves, he was shot before the civil war was over.
Some say he did. How do you know for sure? It all depends on who you read. |
|
| |
|
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Bear - 2015-06-29 12:41 PM Nevertooold - 2015-06-29 12:09 PM Lincoln didn't scrap the idea of deporting slaves, he was shot before the civil war was over. Some say he did. How do you know for sure? It all depends on who you read.
I guess because I believe what I read and was told back in the late 1960's over anything I read about it today in the world of Liberalism that write what they want to believe rather then the facts. |
|
| |
|
 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| fatchance - 2015-06-30 9:12 AM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 8:04 AM barrelracr131 - 2015-06-26 7:42 AM Symbols mean different things to different people. The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol. Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov. In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite. While we find many people who feel that the Confederate flag represents their heritage and sacrifice, I really think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who feels that a swastika represents anything good. If you do find something good that it does represent, enlighten me. Proud Daughter of The Confederacy. By the way, I fly the REAL Stars And Bars in my front yard.
Absolutely!
Here's a weird but true story. When I was in the first grade, I was nervous as hell to be in the new big school. So I kept drawing that symbol on the top of Tipis. I think I drew several dozen of these when the teacher ripped the paper out of my hand and scolded me for the symbol. I was six years old. Back then I had no idea of my Native heritage and no idea what that symbol represented for anyone. I just wanted to keep drawing it to calm my nerves. When the teacher called my parents, then I learned about my history from my father who didn't mind telling the teacher where to stick it.
I've always been weird. LOL |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1395
Location: Missouri | streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread! |
|
| |
|
 Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 3:42 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread!
Texas is also the only State that were it to do so, upon division would be five (5) different states! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1395
Location: Missouri | foundation horse - 2015-06-29 6:58 PM
MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 3:42 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread!
Texas is also the only State that were it to do so, upon division would be five (5 ) different states!
What?! I wanna see a graphic of what it would look like! |
|
| |
Folks on-line