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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
  
| wild_west - 2013-12-18 9:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-18 7:44 PM Bigfoot - 2013-12-18 8:11 PM TXBO - 2013-12-18 7:19 PM Bigfoot - 2013-12-18 7:13 PM It's perfectly fine for people to ask questions. There are people responding, that have no earthly idea what they are talking about. Corinthians 11: 13-15 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. Care to enlighten us? Lots of people here throwing out bad advice, lots of people here professing not to understand-------Get your eyes in the bible, your mind on Jesus, and yourself in church. 2nd Corinthians 10:5 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. I agree with everything you said but either comment, rebuke or correct.... Or Phuk off. No to derail but... I think I love you TXBO
I love you too, Wild. | |
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 Purveyor of unconventional wisdom
Posts: 17112
Location: CA | Bigfoot - 2013-12-18 9:57 PM T turning 3 - 2013-12-18 9:44 PM In my opinion the attitude of my way or the highway concerning faith is as false as it gets. God guides us where we are to be. God helps us along. There have been some great opinions on this thread. What resognates with people is what will start them on the road to their spirituality. The path may not be like any others, or it could be exactly the same. But if someone reads something on here that leads them to wonder about more, to seek knowledge, or even just to open their heart seeking what is missing, it is a great thing!
There is only one way to heaven, and no other. I don't want resonate anything other than that. A Christian doesn't want to get people thinking about what is missing. If they don't know Jesus as savior, that is what is missing. Time may not allow for the nonbeliever to wonder aimlessly through life to hopefully stumble on the answer. Jesus is the answer. Corinthians 1:18 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
I was pushed, manhandled, folks even tried to manipulate me into accepting Jesus into my heart. It wasn't until a beautiful lady eased my way there. You can stomp your foot and pound your fist making your point, and all it will do is back folks away that have had bad experiences with false Christians. Sometimes you have to walk the walk, be understanding and available as people find their way. | |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Bigfoot - 2013-12-18 8:57 PM T turning 3 - 2013-12-18 9:44 PM In my opinion the attitude of my way or the highway concerning faith is as false as it gets. God guides us where we are to be. God helps us along. There have been some great opinions on this thread. What resognates with people is what will start them on the road to their spirituality. The path may not be like any others, or it could be exactly the same. But if someone reads something on here that leads them to wonder about more, to seek knowledge, or even just to open their heart seeking what is missing, it is a great thing!
There is only one way to heaven, and no other. I don't want resonate anything other than that. A Christian doesn't want to get people thinking about what is missing. If they don't know Jesus as savior, that is what is missing. Time may not allow for the nonbeliever to wonder aimlessly through life to hopefully stumble on the answer. Jesus is the answer. Corinthians 1:18 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
You are right. And you have a Proof Source to back you up (the Bible).
T_Turning_3: You have soem uplifting words and have a right about having it pounded into you verses someone gently telling you. It follows a 1st Corinthians verse I just read this morning even I think: "What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip, or in love and with a gentle spirit?" 1st Corinthians 4:21
I think that is the way people need to approach...in love and with a gentle spirit...the Spirit of God. I think it follows the line of you can catch more flies with honey...
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | The spirit of the Holy Ghost testifies of truth! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: East Texas | Phoenix98 - 2013-12-18 9:02 PM
horsesinharleton - 2013-12-19 1:58 AM
God gave each of us the right of free will. He did not make us His puppets to dangle around and do what He wants us to do. He gives each of us a choice. The rapist chooses to rape; the murder chooses to kill; the liar choose to lie; the thief chooses to steal and so on and so on. That same free will gives us the choice to love God and follow His plan for our lives. Have you ever wanted someone to love you but they didn’t? Could you MAKE them love you? Of course not. His will for each of our lives is to love Him; love each other, and live a life helping others and making good choices. But because of that free will, some choose to love God and accept his forgiveness through a personal relationship with Jesus, and some choose to not accept the forgiveness He offers. Because God is God and His ways are higher than ours, we will never – this side of heaven – understand WHY he allows bad things to happen, but He does. Where is He when those bad things are happening? On His throne in heaven… the same place He was when your sin and my sin nailed His Son to the cross to die a cruel and long-suffering death for every rotten thing you and I have ever done. Did Jesus deserve that? Absolutely not… but He did it for us because that’s how much He loves us. So, when bad things happen to good people, just remember that the worst happened to His precious Son. God knew that His Son would pay the ultimate sacrifice for us when He made Adam and Eve and they used their free will to sin. God made this plan to save us from eternal separation from Him before He ever set the world into motion. All we have to do is accept, by faith. He has done all the rest!
The whole Jesus died for our sins thing is so absurd. First, he didn't really die, did he? Second, God, being the omnipotent and omniscient being that he is purported to be- couldn't find a way to forgive us of our sins without the twisted soap opera drama?
And then there is the whole concept of Jesus being the worldly manifestation of God, hence: 
I don't have to defend God or the Bible... He is plenty capable of taking care of Himself. What amazes me though is the lengths non-believers like yourself will go to try and disproof something they don't believe in to start with. In the end, "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Do it now because He loves you and wants a relationship with you. That free will choice is, of course, yours to make. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 855
Location: Ok | Well alot of things actually.
A little background. I grew up in church, God fearing home and family. Very active. At 17 I was a litte rebellious in my attitude towards God, he was real to me but not real enough that I wanted to live my life for him. (we had been through several preachers, couldn't keep a youth pastor and so forth) Not to mention there were all of those 'fake nice' people in the church. (Small town, roll the sidewalks up kind of thing).
I grew alot in the Lord my freshman year of college but had so many questions. There was so much struggle that my dear friends were going through I just kept asking God 'why'. I went to college as a Biology major. As you know most of my teachers were agnostic or athiest. Actually one of mine was an ex-baptist preacher. He learned to hate me real quick. Some didn't care what we believed but this one in particular didn't want a person in his class to leave believing in a higher power. He wasn't just teaching us science, he was teaching us HIS beliefs on why God wasn't real and was some made up source of hope for the weak. His lectures and test were all carefully crafted and structured to change our oppinion on the subject.
At first I hated him. Later I learned to have compassion for him and understand his side of the story. I stilll pray for him when he crosses my mind. The funny thing was that the more I learned about Science, the more I believed. I expected to have the complete opposite effect. I think it is different for everyone because we are all made up differently. I think some of us find God in the eyes of a child or a loved one. Others find him in the middle of a crisis and yet others through a sense of peace and knowing that overwhelms them.
My bioilogy background really opened my eyes to see the world in a new way....a way that made God more real to me than he had ever been before and my relationship has since grown. I've seen actual 'miracles' happen in my life and in the lives of those aroudn me. Do bad things happen, yeah, they do. I could give account after account of why God is who he says he is to me but that would take up even more space on this thread that I've already clogged up! Haha.
Feel free to PM, or even call me. There are two songs that sum up how I found God in my life. I'll post the links below. I encourage you to keep asking questions and seeking. It is healthy :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQAPMRpNoe8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AXD3Xq6Z6U | |
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Veteran
Posts: 154
Location: Tennessee | My God is an awesome God! I was on a path of self destruction, and oh how he SAVED me! I would just like to share my testimony.....take from it what you will.... I had began to focus my life on partying, drinking, drugs, and having realtionships with people who were only toxic to the "luke warm" relationship I once held with the Lord! My whole world seemed to be spiraling into a dark black hole! I was living with a man who treated me HORRIBLE, I questioned everything I had once believed in and most of all if God even existed. The one person that I could always turn to and trust, my mother, was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I was broke, had recieved a notice of eviction from the home that we rented and was unable to afford college anymore, and unfortunately had to drop out. I had reached the point where I did not believe that my life could get any worse...... One day as I was feeling sorry for myself and all that I was going through my heart began to feel like it was about to pound out of my chest (those that know the Lord know the feeling I am referring to), I knew God was speaking to me. I broke down and just prayed, I prayed for forgivness, I prayed for guidence, and for the Lord to just "take the wheel and show me the way"! My life would never be the same after that day! I was able to get out of that horrible relationship, be able to make many happy memories and share long talks with my mother before she went to be with Jesus. I found my soul mate, got married, am now part of a family that has so much love for me, had a beautiful son who has been such a blessing, built a new home on a beautiful piece of land and continue to build the dream ranch I have always wanted, and the blessing just keep rolling in. Did I mention all this has been in a 3 year period! I can't say it enough My God is an awesome God! I am not saying that if you believe you will be blessed with everything you ever wanted. I am only saying that your way is not always the way that the Lord has planned for you! There are still times in my life that things are not perfect and things go wrong, but I KNOW the Lord will help me through it all! He ALWAYS does! So to answer the question....What makes me believe?....... FAITH!!!! HE IS REAL & HE WILL RETURN!!! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: East Texas | S_W - 2013-12-19 10:49 AM
My God is an awesome God! I was on a path of self destruction, and oh how he SAVED me! I would just like to share my testimony.....take from it what you will.... I had began to focus my life on partying, drinking, drugs, and having realtionships with people who were only toxic to the "luke warm" relationship I once held with the Lord! My whole world seemed to be spiraling into a dark black hole! I was living with a man who treated me HORRIBLE, I questioned everything I had once believed in and most of all if God even existed. The one person that I could always turn to and trust, my mother, was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I was broke, had recieved a notice of eviction from the home that we rented and was unable to afford college anymore, and unfortunately had to drop out. I had reached the point where I did not believe that my life could get any worse...... One day as I was feeling sorry for myself and all that I was going through my heart began to feel like it was about to pound out of my chest (those that know the Lord know the feeling I am referring to), I knew God was speaking to me. I broke down and just prayed, I prayed for forgivness, I prayed for guidence, and for the Lord to just "take the wheel and show me the way"! My life would never be the same after that day! I was able to get out of that horrible relationship, be able to make many happy memories and share long talks with my mother before she went to be with Jesus. I found my soul mate, got married, am now part of a family that has so much love for me, had a beautiful son who has been such a blessing, built a new home on a beautiful piece of land and continue to build the dream ranch I have always wanted, and the blessing just keep rolling in. Did I mention all this has been in a 3 year period! I can't say it enough My God is an awesome God! I am not saying that if you believe you will be blessed with everything you ever wanted. I am only saying that your way is not always the way that the Lord has planned for you! There are still times in my life that things are not perfect and things go wrong, but I KNOW the Lord will help me through it all! He ALWAYS does! So to answer the question....What makes me believe?....... FAITH!!!! HE IS REAL & HE WILL RETURN!!!
Amen and Amen to that, Sister!!! Exactly what I am talking about. Using the free will that you had previously been using that was leading you down a path of destruction, then using that same free will choice to believe in faith!! What an awesome testimony... continued blessings to you!! | |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Just Bring It - 2013-12-19 4:17 PM Bigfoot - 2013-12-18 6:05 PM Many comments here scream that many of you have never read the scriptures, but claim to be a believer. Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work. No one came on here to be judged. Everyone on here is learning. Believing does not mean you are right in every way. Also who is to say who is right? Believing is just that....BELIEVING. I bet you believe surgery can save lives though you have never read a medical book. I will not judge others as I hope they will not judge me. Questions are asked by those who want to learn more.
Simply Awesome! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| For someone like myself, that believes the bible is Infact the inspired word of God, and every verse in it is God's honest truth about everything from the plan of salvation, to how I should live my day to day life. Many things written here strike me as coming from 1. non believers, and 2. People proclaiming a faith, that they do not understand themselves.
Yesterday I was asked to point out what I was talking about. In an hour, I only made it through 3 and 1/2 pages. Things that jumped out at me.
Comments about:
Reincarnation
Religion turns people off
Bible is proven wrong
Mistakes in the bible
People supporting atheism
Agnostic beliefs
People proclaiming a belief, when they admittedly don't read the scriptures, and attend no organized worship service.
It is clearly written in the bible:
Romans 14:11 says it is written “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.
The day will come, when we all either express a faith in Jesus, or regret that we did not when the chance was there.
Many here have said that I am too pointed with my beliefs. That is true, and thank you for the complement. Because there is only "one truth". | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Bigfoot - 2013-12-19 2:56 PM For someone like myself, that believes the bible is Infact the inspired word of God, and every verse in it is God's honest truth about everything from the plan of salvation, to how I should live my day to day life. Many things written here strike me as coming from 1. non believers, and 2. People proclaiming a faith, that they do not understand themselves. Yesterday I was asked to point out what I was talking about. In an hour, I only made it through 3 and 1/2 pages. Things that jumped out at me. Comments about: Reincarnation Religion turns people off Bible is proven wrong Mistakes in the bible People supporting atheism Agnostic beliefs People proclaiming a belief, when they admittedly don't read the scriptures, and attend no organized worship service. It is clearly written in the bible: Romans 14:11 says it is written “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God. The day will come, when we all either express a faith in Jesus, or regret that we did not when the chance was there. Many here have said that I am too pointed with my beliefs. That is true, and thank you for the complement. Because there is only "one truth".
Religion doesn't turn people off that truly believe in the Lord? You follow all religions? None of them turn you off or make you question their beliefs? How can that be? How can you believe and follow all the Christian religions? That isn't possible. I do not know what religion you are but what if you were raised in a different religion but didn't believe what they were telling you? But because that religion turned you away for awhile you are all of a sudden not a true believer? Religions are manmade and many are hypocritical.
Which Bible is correct? Like I have said before there are a lot of different versions with different interpretations of the Bible. Are they all correct without any mistakes? Each and every single one?
The atheist and the angostics abviously do not care to be considered believers.....since they are not!
What does "organized worship service" have to do with anything? The Bible says to congregate for worship but why does it have to be an organized worship service? I am sure what you are refering to is church since that is what has been mentioned. My husband and I worship together and sometimes friends. I also see many BHW members congregating and worshipping together on forums. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| Bigfoot - 2013-12-19 2:56 PM For someone like myself, that believes the bible is Infact the inspired word of God, and every verse in it is God's honest truth about everything from the plan of salvation, to how I should live my day to day life. Many things written here strike me as coming from 1. non believers, and 2. People proclaiming a faith, that they do not understand themselves. Yesterday I was asked to point out what I was talking about. In an hour, I only made it through 3 and 1/2 pages. Things that jumped out at me. Comments about: Reincarnation Religion turns people off Bible is proven wrong Mistakes in the bible People supporting atheism Agnostic beliefs People proclaiming a belief, when they admittedly don't read the scriptures, and attend no organized worship service. It is clearly written in the bible: Romans 14:11 says it is written “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God. The day will come, when we all either express a faith in Jesus, or regret that we did not when the chance was there. Many here have said that I am too pointed with my beliefs. That is true, and thank you for the complement. Because there is only "one truth".
I am one that can honestly say that I don't know what to believe. I'm stuck between wanting to and the factual evidence that supports it. How do you reach that type of belief? How do trust what you read in something that has been written so many times? I get frustrated when listening to 101 different ways the bible gets interpreted and just give up on trying to understand. People tell me, "you need to go to church" but why, why can't I have a relationship with God and not go. Why do I need to go somewhere and listen to someone that I may not agree 100% with on their interpretation. Then theirs the forever saying "everything happens for a reason", I can't wrap my head around that one. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| Just bring it,
You've answered a comment with a question. That will always lead to a debate. I will address your questions, although I am sure it will determinate rapidly.
yes. I am a student of all religions. I have chosen one that most closely represents the bible.
Which bible is correct you ask? Which one have you found a mistake in is my question?
Mathew 18:20
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
It doesn't matter to me where people worship. It should matter to them if they follow the scriptures though.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 766
Location: Texas | I am so thankful that I believe that God love me and Jesus died for me. I not only "believe" but I know that to be true.
When I watched my son's heart beat on a monitor and was told that part was enlarged and he had valve problems and I saw bubbles pass thru because there was a hole in the bottom part of his heart, I didn't pray to anybody but God, in the Name of Jesus. Not only did I pray but I searched my heart to make sure that there was no unforgiveness, bitterness or anything that would hinder my faith.
Either this is real or not. Plain and simple. I laid it out. I did what I knew to do from reading the Word. I wouldn't allow doubt in my heart.
The next month when we went to the hospital so that the doctor could do the transesophageal echocardiogram. He wanted to do this to see how large the hole was and to get a better look at it. He came out earlier than expected. He could not find anything wrong with his heart!
Needless to say my son's heart is perfect. The doctor couldn't find anything wrong with it. The valves work, it isn't enlarged and there is no hole to be found!
And that is just one of the awesome things that has happened in my family.
Yes, it is a choice to believe. But then it goes from believing to knowing and there is no turning back. I love Him and Praise His Name everyday. There is no one like my Jesus!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| texas taz - 2013-12-19 3:55 PM
I am so thankful that I believe that God love me and Jesus died for me. I not only "believe" but I know that to be true.
When I watched my son's heart beat on a monitor and was told that part was enlarged and he had valve problems and I saw bubbles pass thru because there was a hole in the bottom part of his heart, I didn't pray to anybody but God, in the Name of Jesus. Not only did I pray but I searched my heart to make sure that there was no unforgiveness, bitterness or anything that would hinder my faith.
Either this is real or not. Plain and simple. I laid it out. I did what I knew to do from reading the Word. I wouldn't allow doubt in my heart.
The next month when we went to the hospital so that the doctor could do the transesophageal echocardiogram. He wanted to do this to see how large the hole was and to get a better look at it. He came out earlier than expected. He could not find anything wrong with his heart!
Needless to say my son's heart is perfect. The doctor couldn't find anything wrong with it. The valves work, it isn't enlarged and there is no hole to be found!
And that is just one of the awesome things that has happened in my family.
Yes, it is a choice to believe. But then it goes from believing to knowing and there is no turning back. I love Him and Praise His Name everyday. There is no one like my Jesus!
Good post | |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Bigfoot - 2013-12-19 3:39 PM Just bring it, You've answered a comment with a question. That will always lead to a debate. I will address your questions, although I am sure it will determinate rapidly. yes. I am a student of all religions. I have chosen one that most closely represents the bible. Which bible is correct you ask? Which one have you found a mistake in is my question? Mathew 18:20 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” It doesn't matter to me where people worship. It should matter to them if they follow the scriptures though.
I will not debate you because you answered my questions though I still dont understand how you can be a follower of all religions when many of them contradict each other or have falsehoods. 
But anywho.....
One Bible that pops to mind is the New World Translation. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| Just Bring It - 2013-12-19 4:13 PM
Bigfoot - 2013-12-19 3:39 PM Just bring it, You've answered a comment with a question. That will always lead to a debate. I will address your questions, although I am sure it will determinate rapidly. yes. I am a student of all religions. I have chosen one that most closely represents the bible. Which bible is correct you ask? Which one have you found a mistake in is my question? Mathew 18:20 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” It doesn't matter to me where people worship. It should matter to them if they follow the scriptures though.
I will not debate you because you answered my questions though I still dont understand how you can be a follower of all religions when many of them contradict each other or have falsehoods. But anywho..... One Bible that pops to mind is the New World Translation.
I must have misled you I have studied "most" religions. I only follow one. While rereading this thread I got excited. Someone used therm "sola scriptura". It got me thinking perhaps someone else had studied the ancient manuscripts. I see a few post later the same person toldme to phuk off. With contradictions like this, I doubt we will see any closure. Everyone's life experiences are not mine, and mine are not theirs. I just wanted to pass along some scriptures to the lost, or unconcerned. Perhaps my seeds will go somewhere else from now on. The message is strong, perhPs someone will listen else where. | |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Bigfoot - 2013-12-19 4:31 PM Just Bring It - 2013-12-19 4:13 PM Bigfoot - 2013-12-19 3:39 PM Just bring it, You've answered a comment with a question. That will always lead to a debate. I will address your questions, although I am sure it will determinate rapidly. yes. I am a student of all religions. I have chosen one that most closely represents the bible. Which bible is correct you ask? Which one have you found a mistake in is my question? Mathew 18:20 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” It doesn't matter to me where people worship. It should matter to them if they follow the scriptures though. I will not debate you because you answered my questions though I still dont understand how you can be a follower of all religions when many of them contradict each other or have falsehoods.
But anywho.....
One Bible that pops to mind is the New World Translation. I must have misled you I have studied "most" religions. I only follow one. While rereading this thread I got excited. Someone used therm "sola scriptura". It got me thinking perhaps someone else had studied the ancient manuscripts. I see a few post later the same person toldme to phuk off. With contradictions like this, I doubt we will see any closure. Everyone's life experiences are not mine, and mine are not theirs. I just wanted to pass along some scriptures to the lost, or unconcerned. Perhaps my seeds will go somewhere else from now on. The message is strong, perhPs someone will listen else where.
Your voice has been heard and appreciated. You just came across as you know best and your way is the only way. You are strong in your beliefs and I admire that greatly! But some are not as strong in their beliefs and have questions. I do not feel people with questions should be judged and be seen as non-believers because of their questions. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 855
Location: Ok | Hollywood's Fan - 2013-12-17 10:57 AM What makes me believe? Certainly not the theories and writings of men. Honestly, I have had God in my heart, always. I never questioned his existance because I have felt his presence since I was a small child. God and religion are two seperate things. Religion is man's way to God, and some try to make it seem very complicated. The bible is God's textbook on life, his gift of a manuscript designed to guide the people he created in having the life he created them to have. Its perfect. Every question that you could ever have about the foundation of life can be found in the Bible. You just have to look for it, and seek the answers.
Men have been trying to disprove the facts of the Bible for years, but still it endures. If not divinely inspired, how could it have stood the test of time all these years? If just a book written by men, why would it not been thrown out years ago as hogwash? If Jesus Christ were just a man, wouldn't he have been forgotten about long ago?
I have a difficult time understanding how some do not believe in God. Look at the wonders of his creation. How complex we are as human beings, the different animal and plant species - each designed with a specific purpose in the food chain. The oceans, the desert, the Grand Canyon, etc., etc., etc. I feel sorry for those who make it their life's work to try and disprove God's existance, when to embrace him and the teachings of his word (the bible) is what leads to a fulfilling and happy life.
And, I wondered reading your post, what exactly has been found that proves the bible to be false?
I like your response. I feel very much the same way. I posted earlier about Biology in college actually bringing me CLOSER to God for the reasons you have stated in the words I could not find.
One thing that really made me say 'wow' (though I was already a believer) was when we had to study the GAIA theory which strongly supports your comments about the food chain and order and so forth. It really kind of brought everything home for me. I remember where I set in that class and I remember how strong the presence of the Holy Spirit was on me that day. I will never forget it.
:-) | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | So we're operating under the theory that the Council of Nicea was God inspired and not working to forward the interests of the organized Church? Because they threw out an awful lot of gospels that were probably a lot closer to the teachings of Jesus than the writings of Paul. Many of them were widely read and important to various church communities. Then the Church proceeded to kill people in the process of wiping out these other gospels, because many groups didn't give up their books willingly. Ok. Gotcha. | |
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