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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It will change. I think it will take time, but it will change. Just like everything else like this.
I also think this discussion is good because it forces all of us to take a look at it and really think about it. |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
 
| Bibliafarm - 2014-03-07 9:43 PM my point is if men were allowed.. I in my opinion think.. most would think like andy .. support but not run.. i may be way wrong.. due to the past tradition..
that was all I was saying..not to go either way.. its wrong to say they cant.. but due to tradition.. i think most would feel awkward.. but I dont know.like the bullriding.. not many women are doing it although can.?
Maybe some would....I don't know....it's their problem and their loss. LOL. I don't think it's fair to assume that all men would want to wrestle cows, and ride broncs/bulls either....
I don't get it. Don't we get all huffy when people try to insinuate that running barrels is easy? It's NOT, and while it's a sport that was created by women there's nothing girly about it. Well, except maybe the bling! LOL. It's harder than it looks and takes real skill. By saying, "Well, men wouldn't want to run barrels cuz it's for womenz" or that "Men would feel girly" or that "It's a girly sport" is the highest level of absurdity.
Again, the WPRA can do whatever they want. I'm not saying that they should let men into THEIR association. I do, however, believe that men should have a chance at barrels at the NFR right alongside the ladies. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I think over time HBL it will change.. more will.. want to.. I dont know. i am not in their heads.. lol.. but men work as hard as women to get to the top..alot of people dont like change.. like i said I Hold no Opinions about this.. I truly dont care one way or another.. im still gonna suppport and cheer my favorites on. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-07 7:51 PM
So it's OK to discriminate purely on the basis of sex then? We've established that most people feel men do not have a particular advantage, when it comes to barrel racing. If anything, when you consider weight, they might be at a disadvantage.
I agree the WPRA ought to be allowed to do whatever they wish. I just want to make sure we all agree that because I have a Y chromosome, I cannot be allowed to compete at the highest levels of professional rodeo. No other reason....just that. I have testicles, and a Y chromosome, therefore I am banned.
Is this an accurate summary?
Doc as far as the WPRA rules for membership goes yes you can not join. It states that it is a womens only group and must be proved by birth cert. Now do I think that someone with a lot of money is going to someday file a law suit against them and win...YES Pick the right court and I think it is a lock. But that really is not what we are taking about. What I see a lot of people saying here is why not let men run barrels at the NFR or No keep it the same with only women from the WPRA competing. That is where some are making a huge mistake the WPRA does not have a lock on the NFR they are there under contract with the PRCA. That contract will run out someday and there is no guarantee that the PRCA will sign a new one with the WPRA. With new Rodeos like the RFD American which I think has completely changed the game with their format. Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Or they may go with another barrel association. With the money that the American offered it is a whole new ballgame. And I know that Vegas and the major sponsors are watching we will see where their money goes. I think the winds of change are a blowing and we will see where they take us.
Edited by jbhoot 2014-03-07 9:51 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think you are right, JB. It's just a matter of time. Eventually the "feminine" stigma of a man barrel racing (wherever that exists) will evaporate. Men who insist that barrel racing is only for sissys and gay men are probably insecure themselves....most of them, at least. Some may even have some ambiguities that they themselves wish to deny. I don't see anything "sissy" about horsemanship. Good horsemanship is good horsemanship and gender should have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
If I were in the business of training barrel horses or giving lessons, I probably wouldn't take a strong stand on this as it would drive some business away, I'm guessing. I would say that it should stay the same because that's the "tradition". That would be the smart thing to do from a business standpoint. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | its interesting you say that.. many great Dressage trainers are men..Dressage doesnt hold gender a issue.. makes one think.. but yet many would consider that a sissy sport.. although its far from it.long long ago you wouldnt see it with swarms of men .. now you do.. good horsemenship is good horsemenship.. men or women..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-07 10:01 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Bibliafarm - 2014-03-07 9:57 PM its interesting you say that.. many great Dressage trainers are men..Dressage doesnt hold gender a issue.. makes one think.. but yet many would consider that a sissy sport.. although its far from it.long long ago you wouldnt see it with swarms of men .. now you do.. good horsemenship is good horsemenship.. men or women..
And I bet the sport is better because of it. That crowd went wild when Clint Sherlin went flying in there. I think it got a lot of people to think.
Preserving "tradition" for no good reason, other than the status quo is not reasonable, IMO.....not when it required shutting others out purely because of their gender. I'm confident that women will more than hold their own. They don't need to be shielded from men...not in this sport. They can beat men just as easily as men can beat them, if not moreso. |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolete.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you?
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-08 9:22 AM
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | NJJ - 2014-03-08 9:15 AM jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolute.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you?
I've been thinking the same thing NJJ. Just thinking randomly in my part of the country there are so many awesome horses and riders that the gals are a huge part of the family ranches and can't leave for months at a time but can easily do the American and all for $100,000. Its a no brainer.  |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bibliafarm - 2014-03-07 9:57 PM its interesting you say that.. many great Dressage trainers are men..Dressage doesnt hold gender a issue.. makes one think.. but yet many would consider that a sissy sport.. although its far from it.long long ago you wouldnt see it with swarms of men .. now you do.. good horsemenship is good horsemenship.. men or women..
I think you are a bit off in history here. Bibs.....Dressage was always a male dominated sport until the early 50s when women were finally allowed to compete in the Olympics.....Now, over the years, it may have shifted to women being predominate but dressage has a centuries old history and tradition. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I was not talking so far back in beginning of time. Over the course of say 30 years it has been overrun with women to point of that some men if you . Ask any cowboy would say its sissy. Or men. Its not true .it evolved. More are competing now and it isn't a big deal .very competitive trainers and riders and well respected.. ...it may have been over run by men in early years but it changed a lot...I see barrel racing the same my point.women and now men
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-08 10:33 AM
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 Get a Clue
Posts: 1228
Location: A Higher Elevation | For the record, the PWBR was for women only also. The PWBR was under the PRCA umbrella, but it was still separate. And if you were a roper also, you had to buy TWO cards - PWBR/PRCA, if you wanted to compete in multiple events. The GB didn't even count towards AA, if you were so inclined. The PRCA starting the PWBR wasn't about equality at all, it was all about control.
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| NJJ - 2014-03-08 9:15 AM
jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolete.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you?
NJJ I am well aware of the of the previous case between the PRCA and WPRA and the settlement and that the settlement has an end date. Since than things have changed the PRCA will have other options next time. My point was that the WPRA should not assume that they have a lock on the NFR they do not. Like most things in life Rodeo is controlled by money. If the money from sponsors and attendance starts going to Rodeos like the American you bet the PRCA is going to take notice and may vary well change their format. Vegas,the crowd,sonsors and the PRCA all have votes in this. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | jbhoot - 2014-03-08 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-08 9:15 AM jbhoot - 2014-03-07 9:13 PM . Remember The PRCA does not offer barrels. If they choose to continue to offer barrels after their contract ends with the WPRA they my vary well change the format. Where were you when the PRCA already tried that?????
IMO, I think the format of the American will grow bigger and bigger with more rodeos (qualifying etc) making the NFR look "out of date" and obsolete.....Face it....why would any woman (or man) run all over the country hitting 40-50 rodeos to win less than the amount of money that "could" be offered in the American format....The PRCA shot themselves in the foot by p*ffing off a lot of their contestants. You didn't see any of them turn down the offer to compete in the American, did you? NJJ I am well aware of the of the previous case between the PRCA and WPRA and the settlement and that the settlement has an end date. Since than things have changed the PRCA will have other options next time. My point was that the WPRA should not assume that they have a lock on the NFR they do not. Like most things in life Rodeo is controlled by money. If the money from sponsors and attendance starts going to Rodeos like the American you bet the PRCA is going to take notice and may vary well change their format. Vegas,the crowd,sonsors and the PRCA all have votes in this. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I agree that things MAY change in the future. However, the WPRA is the sanctioning body (per agreement for the resolution of the lawsuits) for barrel racing at the WNFR through 2019. The PRCA didn't do themselves any favors by p*ffing off their top contestants in this last fiasco. Five more years and they may not have the "bargaining" power for sponsors, etc that they will need. The new and successful concept like the American may just be their downfall. |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| My two cents.
Saying keeping the barrel race WPRA and women only in PRCA rodeos is "tradition" is a gross oversimplification of how barrel racing came to be a part of Pro rodeo.
Rodeo was different back in the day. Women used to ride broncs and trick ride...trick riding was a judged event, not a contract act.
After the death of a female bronc rider, that event was discontinued. I'm not sure why trick riding faded out.
Anywho, barrel racing evolved and was accepted as a way to add some color, flash and femininity to the sport.
Not everyone was on board. Several stock contractors and committees wouldn't have barrel racing, or if they did, they would offer unsanctioned barrel races or far less added money.
The ladies who pioneered barrel racing in rodeo fought to make it accepted and a legitimate part of the rodeos.
They wore fancy shirts and dress pants with no back pockets because jeans were not allowed early on. They carried flags and set pivots for grand entry because that was a way to get stock contractors to be more accepting of the barrel race.
As time went on, barrel racing became more accepted due to the efforts of the GRA and later the WPRA. They achieved getting the WPRA sanctioned barrel race into such rodeos as Fort Worth, Cheyenne and Pendelton...no small feats!
I think because of barrel racing in rodeo, barrel racing became vastly popular nationwide and in all sorts of venues...all because of what these ladies fought for and achieved. And men in increasing numbers run barrels for fun and profit.
Now that the money and prestige is there to win at PRCA rodeos and the NFR, some male barrel racers want a shot at it. I understand that. I am against it. I think the organizers and producers of rodeos like the American can accept men running barrels and I am perfectly cool with that.
I just feel the WPRA barrel races, at PRCA rodeos and elsewhere, should stay women only.
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | bennie1 - 2014-03-08 1:05 PM My two cents.
Saying keeping the barrel race WPRA and women only in PRCA rodeos is "tradition" is a gross oversimplification of how barrel racing came to be a part of Pro rodeo.
Rodeo was different back in the day. Women used to ride broncs and trick ride...trick riding was a judged event, not a contract act.
After the death of a female bronc rider, that event was discontinued. I'm not sure why trick riding faded out.
Anywho, barrel racing evolved and was accepted as a way to add some color, flash and femininity to the sport.
Not everyone was on board. Several stock contractors and committees wouldn't have barrel racing, or if they did, they would offer unsanctioned barrel races or far less added money.
The ladies who pioneered barrel racing in rodeo fought to make it accepted and a legitimate part of the rodeos.
They wore fancy shirts and dress pants with no back pockets because jeans were not allowed early on. They carried flags and set pivots for grand entry because that was a way to get stock contractors to be more accepting of the barrel race.
As time went on, barrel racing became more accepted due to the efforts of the GRA and later the WPRA. They achieved getting the WPRA sanctioned barrel race into such rodeos as Fort Worth, Cheyenne and Pendelton...no small feats!
I think because of barrel racing in rodeo, barrel racing became vastly popular nationwide and in all sorts of venues...all because of what these ladies fought for and achieved. And men in increasing numbers run barrels for fun and profit.
Now that the money and prestige is there to win at PRCA rodeos and the NFR, some male barrel racers want a shot at it. I understand that. I am against it. I think the organizers and producers of rodeos like the American can accept men running barrels and I am perfectly cool with that.
I just feel the WPRA barrel races, at PRCA rodeos and elsewhere, should stay women only.
Thank you!!! |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | That is interesting, Bennie. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Basically, you gave a great account of how women were able to secure a spot in pro rodeo, without having added pressure of male competition. They feel they earned it, hence the "WPRA". The name itself will sufficiently keep men out of pro rodeo, let's face it. As long as the WPRA has cornered the market and shut men out of barrel racing, there is nothing to fear. Men won't be flocking to enter pro rodeo, so long as the WPRA is in control. Women will have to hold on to this gimmick, and that is, in effect, what it is. That's their right. I defend their right to refuse to allow men to compete in barrel racing in pro rodeo. I just think it discriminates without a good reason.....apart from "tradition". It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
I would like to think that most people enjoy watching barrel racing because they like to see the good horsemanship on good horses, and that all the pretty bling and fashion is of secondary importance. Maybe I'm wrong.....maybe they couldn't care less.
This argument is actually, in many ways, quite analagous to what baseball went through before 1947. Men with dark skin were banned from major league baseball, and the affiliated minor leagues.
After all, it was Abner Doubleday, a white man, who invented the sport, and white men paid their dues by participating in it from 1839. It wasn't until around the turn of the century that Blacks were even allowed to play baseball. It was a white man's game.....until the Negro Leagues and later Jackie Robinson finally broke the color line.
I see a lot of similarity with your line of thinking.
I think and hope the American will be remembered as a breakthrough. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
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You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement.......... |
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 Saint Stacey
| I agree with NJJ. That was a very asinine statement.
If I remember right.... "The Million Dollar Cowboy" didn't make it out of Waco to qualify for the American.
Remind me why you think woman fear the competition???
Edited by SKM 2014-03-08 3:58 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-08 3:15 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
. You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement..........
What precisely do you find "assinine" about what amounts to a hunch, on my part? I was speculating, basically searching for a plausible reason.
I'm not running for public office, Norma, so I'm not looking for your vote.
I doubt you need my input to sway your opinion, one way or another.
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