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 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
   
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | the gingerbread man - 2014-04-29 11:24 AM
rodeowithjoker - 2014-04-29 1:03 PM LabRat - 2014-04-29 12:53 PM Not happy with the producers who chose not to postpone. "The show must go on" attitude is quite irresponsible. But ultimately it's the competitor's decision to enter or not. And if several are choosing to turn-out, why wouldn't the producers decide to postpone and possibly have a better turnout later in the year? Doesn't make sense to me. Last time this was going around, I was told (and I can't say how reliable that information is) that KS NBHA was going to be stuck paying for the facility that weekend even if no horses showed up. (I looked at results from 2011 online today and there were probably 40 of the nearly 300 entered who scratched and stayed home) It was a bad deal and I didn't envy the state director at all having to make that decision. She was pretty much in a no-win situation, like she will be this year again. Fees were due April 11th, so everyone who entered & then went to Lincoln probably dropped the check in the mail on their way out the driveway like I did, and now we're all going to have to make decisions about whether we go or not after the money is spent.
I wish someone would enforce a rule like that now, today! No into state or out of state hauling. I competed last week here in town and I'm hoping to God nothing shows up from here. I'm going out of state next week but my horses sure aren't. IMO, people are stubborn about staying home now. 'Show must go on' should be saved for a theater stage. Just my rambling thoughts. | |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | I feel like until everything gets shut down, like they did in 2011, nobody will 'get it' that they need to stay home and it these cases will keep showing up. | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | The facility is top notch and the producers of this run are such a nice family that have done wonderful things for the barrel community around MN and are loved by many but I just cannot wrap my head around the idea of being hush hush until after this run is over with. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| yes that is the prospectors challenge. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | If this was an outbreak of something deadly to HUMANS, would this even be a debate? It isn't any different - the only way to stop an outbreak is quarantine. | |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | MS2011 - 2014-04-30 10:12 AM OK, I'll admit I haven't taken the time to read this whole thread...I'm sure someone has already figured this out.
How many horses that were at the Bonus Race Finals went to the BBR?
Several
And they are entered at Guymon PRCA rodeo Friday with horses coming in from all over. Over 150 rodeo horses traveling all over the US.
Edited by ozcancrasher13 2014-04-30 11:04 AM
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | svincent - 2014-04-30 10:42 AM If this was an outbreak of something deadly to HUMANS, would this even be a debate? It isn't any different - the only way to stop an outbreak is quarantine.
like influenza???? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Oklahoma | Just to be clear --- should we stay home from local jackpots that ARE NOT overnight stalled races -races that we just haul in, run and leave? I completely understand about hauling and stalling for several days but want to be clear on the local jackpots. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I posted on the R2R page on FB, and I think one or two others did as well, but I am surprised nobody else bothered. The civilized way to get them to move the date back is to post your sentiments in the open on their page.
This virus is extremely common and most horses have been exposed by the time they are youngsters. There are 9 types of this virus but only 3 cause significant disease. Horses exposed will develop antibodies that are detectable in the lab, but the problem is that small changes in their makeup occur when they mutate and develop different strains....something that happens in nature all the time. Many of these recent cases with neurologic symptoms are showing up in horses that are testing negative for the "neuropathic strain" and my understanding is that this is what has been so puzzling.
I see a lot of misunderstanding out there being bantered about regarding the incubation period. Here's my understanding - a horse is exposed to the virus under conditions that favor the virus to proliferate. If that horse is one of the few who is going to go on and get the neuro form, there is a 4-6 day incubation period, which is not necessarily very obvious unless you are looking for it. It might get a snotty nose, appear a tad sluggish, and have a low grade fever. We all have horses that get snotty noses from time to time, but most of us don't run around taking their temps. AFTER that, if the neurologic symptoms may not appear for another 12 days. I wouldn't get too locked on to these estimates on incubation periods, etc... They are basically a "range" and it wouldn't be at all unusual to see horses come down with this say 3 weeks after "exposure". The virus itself tends to express itself in disease form during cooler, wetter months. Many viruses are seasonal that way for reasons not entirely clear. As everyone has been saying, humans may transmit this bug via contact....clothes, tools, tack, water buckets, etc...
I suppose even a farrier or vet could theoretically transmit the virus.
In humans a good, similar example is seen with "Cytomegalovirus" which is a herpes virus. It is a very common virus. In fact, 3 out of 4 people you meet walking down the street are seropositive for this virus, meaning they have been infected. Most CMV infections are manifest by simple cold or flu-like symptoms, and almost all are mild. Some develop symptoms like what you see when you get infectious mono, which everyone has heard about. Most blood we transfuse, for instance is positive for this virus. In other words, for the vast majority of people the CMV virus, like other typical herpes viruses, are commensals.....they just are along for the ride and cause no harm.
IF however, a person develops a suppressed immune system, such as after a bone marrow transplant, an organ transplant, or during cancer chemotherapy, that virus in certain individuals can become very virulent and deadly. We aren't entirely sure why it only attacks certain individuals, but when it does the mortality is very high. In transplantation, if we have an organ recipient who is awaiting transplant and happens to be seronegative for CMV, we can minimize risk of transmission by only transplanting organs from a sero negative donor and transfusions of sero negative blood. People who are positive for CMV, like most of us, do not "shed" the virus, typically, unless they themselves are sick with it.
I guess the bottom line with this situation is we have to be smart. These outbreaks are cropping up after shows where these horses have been in relatively close quarters. We cannot control every manifestation of this disease, but we can take steps to minimize the risks and those steps are common sensical and don't cost anything. Right now one thing we should be banking on is the warmer weather which hopefully will cause this disease to dwindle. Before that happens, we should all just be patient and play it smart.
What's the risk in that? Chances are if we haul to one of thse jackpots we will get away with it....but that's all it is...."getting away with it." I don't know about you folks, but I don't like the sound of that.
If any of you want to make a difference, then get out there and express your opinions on places like FB. I went there and said my two cents.....so can you. Make a few phone calls. Get your vet's opinion and relay that info. My vet tells me to just hunker down a while longer. Let mother nature take care of this with some sunshine and warmer dry weather. Hell, we are still seeing snow, rain, and freezing temps up here. Hopefully, help is on the way. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| is information being posted on the actual page or the even page? | |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| Oops - somebody said this was already posted on page 5.
Edited by Griz 2014-04-30 11:24 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| Horse-racin - 2014-04-30 11:02 AM Just to be clear --- should we stay home from local jackpots that ARE NOT overnight stalled races -races that we just haul in, run and leave? I completely understand about hauling and stalling for several days but want to be clear on the local jackpots.
Talk to YOUR vet or a state vet. Don't take social media advice on things of this magnitude. I posted a link to the UC Davis webinar last night and it had some very, very good information that was backed by strong scientific data. Don't assume someone on FB or BHW knows better.
I am all for bio security and we have made some choices including staying home from BRF and the R4R. I am not pointing fingers at those who went, its their choice and for the VAST majority it seems a safe choice.
This is beside the topics of the above paragraphs and I won't be a poplular statement but there certainly wasn't his outrage before the BRF. The virus was just as prevalent then, the timeline if anything was more suspect at that point. Now fewer people have less money on the line and there is a massive outcry to cancel or not go. Lets be fair here, everything stayed civil at that time. Like it or not we ALL have a dog in the fight with all these events and what could come of them. Just because your entry check isn't sitting at RHR don't think others aren't invested financially, emotionally in this deal. Again, not pointing at any certain post and I've pulled horses from both events, just a little frustrated that a huge event earlier didn't get near this level heat and now that its a smaller crowd involved in the current debated event the convo has gotten so hot. Do I agree that maybe postponement would be best ? YOU BET I DO. But I don't agree with people who were ok with hauling when the case suited them later going public against those who are looking at doing exactly the same thing. Just asking everyone to remember these decisions aren't easy, info, even from vets is conflicting and their are a million different viewpoints. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | dhdqhllc - 2014-04-30 10:57 AM
svincent - 2014-04-30 10:42 AM If this was an outbreak of something deadly to HUMANS, would this even be a debate? It isn't any different - the only way to stop an outbreak is quarantine.
like influenza????
No. Not like influenza. Influenza is most dangerous to elderly, infants, and those with compromised immune systems. EHV is completely non-discriminatory in who it infects - age, gender, breed, or otherwise.
ETA: since I'm sure you'll nitpick this. Influenza will work. If your kid has the flu, but he already has a birthday party planned - you've bought the food, games, etc.... Do you not tell your guests and let then come and be exposed along with their children? Do you cancel altogether? Do you reschedule for when people are healthy and recovered?
Either situation: horses or people - temporary quarantine is the best way to stop the spread.
Edited by svincent 2014-04-30 11:28 AM
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Frenchie - 2014-04-30 11:14 AM Horse-racin - 2014-04-30 11:02 AM Just to be clear --- should we stay home from local jackpots that ARE NOT overnight stalled races -races that we just haul in, run and leave? I completely understand about hauling and stalling for several days but want to be clear on the local jackpots. Talk to YOUR vet or a state vet. Don't take social media advice on things of this magnitude. I posted a link to the UC Davis webinar last night and it had some very, very good information that was backed by strong scientific data. Don't assume someone on FB or BHW knows better.
I am all for bio security and we have made some choices including staying home from BRF and the R4R. I am not pointing fingers at those who went, its their choice and for the VAST majority it seems a safe choice.
This is beside the topics of the above paragraphs and I won't be a poplular statement but there certainly wasn't his outrage before the BRF. The virus was just as prevalent then, the timeline if anything was more suspect at that point. Now fewer people have less money on the line and there is a massive outcry to cancel or not go. Lets be fair here, everything stayed civil at that time. Like it or not we ALL have a dog in the fight with all these events and what could come of them. Just because your entry check isn't sitting at RHR don't think others aren't invested financially, emotionally in this deal. Again, not pointing at any certain post and I've pulled horses from both events, just a little frustrated that a huge event earlier didn't get near this level heat and now that its a smaller crowd involved in the current debated event the convo has gotten so hot. Do I agree that maybe postponement would be best ? YOU BET I DO. But I don't agree with people who were ok with hauling when the case suited them later going public against those who are looking at doing exactly the same thing. Just asking everyone to remember these decisions aren't easy, info, even from vets is conflicting and their are a million different viewpoints.
I think there was a lot of concern about getting events cancelled before the BRF. At least up here there was. Most events were cancelled during that month but in the middle of that month the BRF took place. I think the big concern is we now for sure know it is in the barrel horse community and it has spread outside of what was once just mostly horses that had ties to MN. It was taken to a big barrel race by a barrel horse and this we KNOW. It is not speculation anymore because two horses from two different states all in the same stall alley got it. I think before the BRF people were getting this false sense of security that it was pretty isolated and was dying down and now we know that is not the case. | |
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 New Baseball Convert
Posts: 2303
Location: stalking Gail... | Frenchie - 2014-04-30 10:14 AM Horse-racin - 2014-04-30 11:02 AM Just to be clear --- should we stay home from local jackpots that ARE NOT overnight stalled races -races that we just haul in, run and leave? I completely understand about hauling and stalling for several days but want to be clear on the local jackpots. Talk to YOUR vet or a state vet. Don't take social media advice on things of this magnitude. I posted a link to the UC Davis webinar last night and it had some very, very good information that was backed by strong scientific data. Don't assume someone on FB or BHW knows better.
I am all for bio security and we have made some choices including staying home from BRF and the R4R. I am not pointing fingers at those who went, its their choice and for the VAST majority it seems a safe choice.
This is beside the topics of the above paragraphs and I won't be a poplular statement but there certainly wasn't his outrage before the BRF. The virus was just as prevalent then, the timeline if anything was more suspect at that point. Now fewer people have less money on the line and there is a massive outcry to cancel or not go. Lets be fair here, everything stayed civil at that time. Like it or not we ALL have a dog in the fight with all these events and what could come of them. Just because your entry check isn't sitting at RHR don't think others aren't invested financially, emotionally in this deal. Again, not pointing at any certain post and I've pulled horses from both events, just a little frustrated that a huge event earlier didn't get near this level heat and now that its a smaller crowd involved in the current debated event the convo has gotten so hot. Do I agree that maybe postponement would be best ? YOU BET I DO. But I don't agree with people who were ok with hauling when the case suited them later going public against those who are looking at doing exactly the same thing. Just asking everyone to remember these decisions aren't easy, info, even from vets is conflicting and their are a million different viewpoints.
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | svincent - 2014-04-30 11:23 AM
dhdqhllc - 2014-04-30 10:57 AM
svincent - 2014-04-30 10:42 AM If this was an outbreak of something deadly to HUMANS, would this even be a debate? It isn't any different - the only way to stop an outbreak is quarantine.
like influenza????
No. Not like influenza. Influenza is most dangerous to elderly, infants, and those with compromised immune systems. EHV is completely non-discriminatory in who it infects - age, gender, breed, or otherwise.
ETA: since I'm sure you'll nitpick this. Influenza will work. If your kid has the flu, but he already has a birthday party planned - you've bought the food, games, etc.... Do you not tell your guests and let then come and be exposed along with their children? Do you cancel altogether? Do you reschedule for when people are healthy and recovered?
Either situation: horses or people - temporary quarantine is the best way to stop the spread.
you weren't talking about what cohort it infects....you specifically mentioned how 'deadly' it is...... the point is that influenza's morbidity/mortality is a far higher percentage of those infected than EHV-1......so then tell me, how does the debate go in humans??? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| Just Bring It - 2014-04-30 11:26 AM Frenchie - 2014-04-30 11:14 AM Horse-racin - 2014-04-30 11:02 AM Just to be clear --- should we stay home from local jackpots that ARE NOT overnight stalled races -races that we just haul in, run and leave? I completely understand about hauling and stalling for several days but want to be clear on the local jackpots. Talk to YOUR vet or a state vet. Don't take social media advice on things of this magnitude. I posted a link to the UC Davis webinar last night and it had some very, very good information that was backed by strong scientific data. Don't assume someone on FB or BHW knows better.
I am all for bio security and we have made some choices including staying home from BRF and the R4R. I am not pointing fingers at those who went, its their choice and for the VAST majority it seems a safe choice.
This is beside the topics of the above paragraphs and I won't be a poplular statement but there certainly wasn't his outrage before the BRF. The virus was just as prevalent then, the timeline if anything was more suspect at that point. Now fewer people have less money on the line and there is a massive outcry to cancel or not go. Lets be fair here, everything stayed civil at that time. Like it or not we ALL have a dog in the fight with all these events and what could come of them. Just because your entry check isn't sitting at RHR don't think others aren't invested financially, emotionally in this deal. Again, not pointing at any certain post and I've pulled horses from both events, just a little frustrated that a huge event earlier didn't get near this level heat and now that its a smaller crowd involved in the current debated event the convo has gotten so hot. Do I agree that maybe postponement would be best ? YOU BET I DO. But I don't agree with people who were ok with hauling when the case suited them later going public against those who are looking at doing exactly the same thing. Just asking everyone to remember these decisions aren't easy, info, even from vets is conflicting and their are a million different viewpoints.
You put that better than I was able to. I'm up near the hotzone so have kept good track. There was concerns and questions prior to the BRF, its just frustrating to see the way they are being asked and the attitude with them at this point regarding a different event that most weren't entered in.
Possibly its just being touchy on it after so much frustration. Just asking everyone to look at the big picture, be careful and keep in mind everyone is invested in different things in different areas so please, voice opinions in a way that doesn't add to this stress.
Basically just asking people to keep in mind that not being entered in an event (this weekends or others) makes it much easier to say cancel, don't go, postpone but there are those who DO have to make that choice and it will be a difficult one so keep that in mind. | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | lol...yes...i did nit pick it......and not arguing about ways to stop spread.....but......do those with b-days during flu or rsv season not have b-day parties, to limit exposure????? seems to me i haven't seen someone do that??? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| dhdqhllc - 2014-04-30 11:33 AM
lol...yes...i did nit pick it......and not arguing about ways to stop spread.....but......do those with b-days during flu or rsv season not have b-day parties, to limit exposure????? seems to me i haven't seen someone do that???
Last I checked this was about he EQUINE virus not to squabble over something that is related to humans. Come on if you guys are going to nit pick over something that is not equine related in this thread and is about not traveling to birthday parties. please either start another thread or pm each other. | |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Frenchie - 2014-04-30 11:32 AM Just Bring It - 2014-04-30 11:26 AM Frenchie - 2014-04-30 11:14 AM Horse-racin - 2014-04-30 11:02 AM Just to be clear --- should we stay home from local jackpots that ARE NOT overnight stalled races -races that we just haul in, run and leave? I completely understand about hauling and stalling for several days but want to be clear on the local jackpots. Talk to YOUR vet or a state vet. Don't take social media advice on things of this magnitude. I posted a link to the UC Davis webinar last night and it had some very, very good information that was backed by strong scientific data. Don't assume someone on FB or BHW knows better.
I am all for bio security and we have made some choices including staying home from BRF and the R4R. I am not pointing fingers at those who went, its their choice and for the VAST majority it seems a safe choice.
This is beside the topics of the above paragraphs and I won't be a poplular statement but there certainly wasn't his outrage before the BRF. The virus was just as prevalent then, the timeline if anything was more suspect at that point. Now fewer people have less money on the line and there is a massive outcry to cancel or not go. Lets be fair here, everything stayed civil at that time. Like it or not we ALL have a dog in the fight with all these events and what could come of them. Just because your entry check isn't sitting at RHR don't think others aren't invested financially, emotionally in this deal. Again, not pointing at any certain post and I've pulled horses from both events, just a little frustrated that a huge event earlier didn't get near this level heat and now that its a smaller crowd involved in the current debated event the convo has gotten so hot. Do I agree that maybe postponement would be best ? YOU BET I DO. But I don't agree with people who were ok with hauling when the case suited them later going public against those who are looking at doing exactly the same thing. Just asking everyone to remember these decisions aren't easy, info, even from vets is conflicting and their are a million different viewpoints.
Possibly its just being touchy on it after so much frustration. Just asking everyone to look at the big picture, be careful and keep in mind everyone is invested in different things in different areas so please, voice opinions in a way that doesn't add to this stress.
Basically just asking people to keep in mind that not being entered in an event (this weekends or others) makes it much easier to say cancel, don't go, postpone but there are those who DO have to make that choice and it will be a difficult one so keep that in mind.
Oh I agree! I feel for everyone that has a hard choice to make whether it be someone who has $70 to $600 in entry fees or a producer that has $10k invested plus many other things. This is just a horrible situation for everyone. I have said over and over I will not judge those that do decide to go because they have entry fees they will not get back. I cannot judge because I made the choice long ago to not pre-enter so I don't have any $$$ invested so of course my choice is easy. I cannot say for sure what I would do if I had hundreds of dollars in entry fees involved. I do however think that R4R and RHR could work together to get another date worked out and they could make the run even bigger and better. I think that would be respectful to all barrel racers that have concerns. | |
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