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 Jr. Detective
    
Location: Beggs, OK | rachellyn80 - 2015-02-05 3:12 PM Just so that no one is fooled into thinking that trace amounts are not toxic I want to make sure that you understand what you may be reading.
LD50 means this is the Lethal Dose that will kill 50% of the species that will consume this product.
The LD50 for Monensin in Horses is 2-3 mg/kg or 2-3ppm or 2-3 grams/ton depending on how this amount is expressed.
That is a very TINY amount. So when they say things like "Negative at the detection limits for the test" and decide to exclude the results that show that trace amounts of Monensin were present...Make sure you are educated and are able to protect your horses from being part of that other 50% that might not survive exposure.
My calculations are a bit off. The article I read didn't state that the LD50 is 2-3mg/kg of BODY WEIGHT. This is still a very significant issue. I just got a bit scared when I saw the numbers. I need to process the math and figure up what that would be for a 1000# horse. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| That is the I am leaning, too SG. | |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| Well I decided to go the Blue Bonnet route. Picked some up today. It's just as nice and clean as I remember. I can feel confident feeding now. | |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | rachellyn80 - 2015-02-05 4:27 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-02-05 3:12 PM Just so that no one is fooled into thinking that trace amounts are not toxic I want to make sure that you understand what you may be reading.
LD50 means this is the Lethal Dose that will kill 50% of the species that will consume this product.
The LD50 for Monensin in Horses is 2-3 mg/kg or 2-3ppm or 2-3 grams/ton depending on how this amount is expressed.
That is a very TINY amount. So when they say things like "Negative at the detection limits for the test" and decide to exclude the results that show that trace amounts of Monensin were present...Make sure you are educated and are able to protect your horses from being part of that other 50% that might not survive exposure. My calculations are a bit off. The article I read didn't state that the LD50 is 2-3mg/kg of BODY WEIGHT. This is still a very significant issue. I just got a bit scared when I saw the numbers. I need to process the math and figure up what that would be for a 1000# horse.
It is almost like they want us to be confused by numbers when Zero is the easiest math
Edited by SG. 2015-02-05 10:27 PM
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 Saint Stacey
| The reply I got from Cargill/Nutrena/Triple Crown:Hello Stacey, Thank you for contacting us. The majority of Nutrena horse feed manufacturing locations do not handle monesin/rumensin. However, our mill in Sterling, CO that would most likely service your area does have rumensin. Please know that in addition to following the FDA approved Good Manufacturing practices to eliminate the risk, we also utilize HACCP, which is for managing risks associated with the production of our animal foods. HACCP stands for “Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point,” a systematic, preventive approach to food safety that addresses physical, chemical and biological hazards. HACCP is not actually required in the animal feed industry, but it is mandated in four areas of food for human consumption (fish and seafood, juice processing, poultry, and meat), so is an additional set of processes that we utilize to manage all of the areas of risk involved in producing horse feeds, beyond just the monensin, as there are many factors at play in manufacturing safe, quality feeds. Our manufacturing locations and employees are fully dedicated to providing a safe product. If you have any further questions, please let us know! Thank you! | |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| SKM - 2015-02-06 7:20 AM
The reply I got from Cargill/Nutrena/Triple Crown:Hello Stacey, Thank you for contacting us. The majority of Nutrena horse feed manufacturing locations do not handle monesin/rumensin. However, our mill in Sterling, CO that would most likely service your area does have rumensin. Please know that in addition to following the FDA approved Good Manufacturing practices to eliminate the risk, we also utilize HACCP, which is for managing risks associated with the production of our animal foods. HACCP stands for “Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point,” a systematic, preventive approach to food safety that addresses physical, chemical and biological hazards. HACCP is not actually required in the animal feed industry, but it is mandated in four areas of food for human consumption (fish and seafood, juice processing, poultry, and meat), so is an additional set of processes that we utilize to manage all of the areas of risk involved in producing horse feeds, beyond just the monensin, as there are many factors at play in manufacturing safe, quality feeds. Our manufacturing locations and employees are fully dedicated to providing a safe product. If you have any further questions, please let us know! Thank you!
Does that put your mind at ease? | |
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 Go go girl
| I have been lurking on this topic, I normally feed Woody's Senior feed but our local store ran out so we bought Hubbard. I had some Woody's left, so was slowly switching over to the Hubbard on my two that get grain. The one mare started stretching before feedings...She only ever does this when she is having tummy trouble. Then a couple days later my other mare acted colicy, she has never acted that way before, thank God the episode was short lived. Then I came on here and found this topic. I stopped the Hubbard right away and started just giving them steamed rolled oats. They are acting normal again, thankfully. I emailed Hubbard and they replied that they do make medicated cattle feeds and to call them so they can further explain it. I didn't call, just emailed back telling them I was switching to rolled oats as a precaution. I don't know why they couldn't have explained in the email  | |
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Saint Stacey
| want2chase3 - 2015-02-06 6:25 AM
SKM - 2015-02-06 7:20 AM
The reply I got from Cargill/Nutrena/Triple Crown:Hello Stacey, Thank you for contacting us. The majority of Nutrena horse feed manufacturing locations do not handle monesin/rumensin. However, our mill in Sterling, CO that would most likely service your area does have rumensin. Please know that in addition to following the FDA approved Good Manufacturing practices to eliminate the risk, we also utilize HACCP, which is for managing risks associated with the production of our animal foods. HACCP stands for “Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point,” a systematic, preventive approach to food safety that addresses physical, chemical and biological hazards. HACCP is not actually required in the animal feed industry, but it is mandated in four areas of food for human consumption (fish and seafood, juice processing, poultry, and meat), so is an additional set of processes that we utilize to manage all of the areas of risk involved in producing horse feeds, beyond just the monensin, as there are many factors at play in manufacturing safe, quality feeds. Our manufacturing locations and employees are fully dedicated to providing a safe product. If you have any further questions, please let us know! Thank you!
Does that put your mind at ease?
Yeah...I feel SOOO much better now. Said in my most sarcastic voice. | |
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Saint Stacey
| MrsHound - 2015-02-06 6:35 AM
I have been lurking on this topic, I normally feed Woody's Senior feed but our local store ran out so we bought Hubbard. I had some Woody's left, so was slowly switching over to the Hubbard on my two that get grain. The one mare started stretching before feedings...She only ever does this when she is having tummy trouble. Then a couple days later my other mare acted colicy, she has never acted that way before, thank God the episode was short lived. Then I came on here and found this topic. I stopped the Hubbard right away and started just giving them steamed rolled oats. They are acting normal again, thankfully. I emailed Hubbard and they replied that they do make medicated cattle feeds and to call them so they can further explain it. I didn't call, just emailed back telling them I was switching to rolled oats as a precaution. I don't know why they couldn't have explained in the email
You might want to look into sending a sample off to be tested. | |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I imagine these feed companies have been flooded with phone calls and emails lately regarding this. | |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| SKM - 2015-02-06 7:41 AM
want2chase3 - 2015-02-06 6:25 AM
SKM - 2015-02-06 7:20 AM
The reply I got from Cargill/Nutrena/Triple Crown:Hello Stacey, Thank you for contacting us. The majority of Nutrena horse feed manufacturing locations do not handle monesin/rumensin. However, our mill in Sterling, CO that would most likely service your area does have rumensin. Please know that in addition to following the FDA approved Good Manufacturing practices to eliminate the risk, we also utilize HACCP, which is for managing risks associated with the production of our animal foods. HACCP stands for “Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point,” a systematic, preventive approach to food safety that addresses physical, chemical and biological hazards. HACCP is not actually required in the animal feed industry, but it is mandated in four areas of food for human consumption (fish and seafood, juice processing, poultry, and meat), so is an additional set of processes that we utilize to manage all of the areas of risk involved in producing horse feeds, beyond just the monensin, as there are many factors at play in manufacturing safe, quality feeds. Our manufacturing locations and employees are fully dedicated to providing a safe product. If you have any further questions, please let us know! Thank you!
Does that put your mind at ease? Yeah...I feel SOOO much better now. Said in my most sarcastic voice.
Lol! The only way to "eliminate " the risk is to not have a RISK at all. | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | http://www.woodysfeed.com/articles.html
Mixin' Molasses right here at Woody's To understand one of the issues that the horse feed industry faces, consumers should know that there are about 30 molasses mixing plants currently supplying molasses for horse feed products. These 30 plants have one important and potentially dangerous thing in common... they also mix molasses used in liquid feeds for feedlot cattle. Many of the beef cattle liquid feeds contain ionophores (like Bovatec and Rumensin). Ionophores are lethal to horses at doses as low as 6 parts per million (ppm). The potential for a disastrous, accidental release of ionophores lurks at each of these 30 plants, which is a quality control issue that Woody's (nor any other horse feed plant) can not tolerate. | |
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Go go girl
| SG. - 2015-02-06 8:35 AM http://www.woodysfeed.com/articles.html
Mixin' Molasses right here at Woody's
To understand one of the issues that the horse feed industry faces, consumers should know that there are about 30 molasses mixing plants currently supplying molasses for horse feed products. These 30 plants have one important and potentially dangerous thing in common... they also mix molasses used in liquid feeds for feedlot cattle. Many of the beef cattle liquid feeds contain ionophores (like Bovatec and Rumensin). Ionophores are lethal to horses at doses as low as 6 parts per million (ppm). The potential for a disastrous, accidental release of ionophores lurks at each of these 30 plants, which is a quality control issue that Woody's (nor any other horse feed plant) can not tolerate.
Wouldn't hesitate one bit at feeding Woodys. Have always been happy with their feed. Just wish it was more available in my local store :-( NEVER had a problem with Woody's!  | |
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 Regular
Posts: 63
| New lurker here too. We had HACCP in a facility where I worked and it was nothing more than a waiver to lower our insurance rates. It is only as good as the practices that are truly followed. With low wages usually brings low quality of work. Someone who makes $7 hour and doesn't own an animal might not care about skipping a step or telling his boss he made an error. And if a white collar high paid guy doesn't go inspect what is actually being done, they don't know. The safest thing is to find a facility that is horse feed only.
Unfortunately there are way more cattle to be fed and that is where the money is vs horse feed. Which again drives the high prices by lack of competition and loss of not being able to make medicated feeds. | |
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Saint Stacey
| Zebra racer - 2015-02-06 9:18 AM
New lurker here too. We had HACCP in a facility where I worked and it was nothing more than a waiver to lower our insurance rates. It is only as good as the practices that are truly followed. With low wages usually brings low quality of work. Someone who makes $7 hour and doesn't own an animal might not care about skipping a step or telling his boss he made an error. And if a white collar high paid guy doesn't go inspect what is actually being done, they don't know. The safest thing is to find a facility that is horse feed only.
Unfortunately there are way more cattle to be fed and that is where the money is vs horse feed. Which again drives the high prices by lack of competition and loss of not being able to make medicated feeds.
THANK YOU!!! This is exactly the point that many are missing. The best protocols in the world can't make up for human errors. | |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Zebra racer - 2015-02-06 10:18 AM New lurker here too. We had HACCP in a facility where I worked and it was nothing more than a waiver to lower our insurance rates. It is only as good as the practices that are truly followed. With low wages usually brings low quality of work. Someone who makes $7 hour and doesn't own an animal might not care about skipping a step or telling his boss he made an error. And if a white collar high paid guy doesn't go inspect what is actually being done, they don't know. The safest thing is to find a facility that is horse feed only. Unfortunately there are way more cattle to be fed and that is where the money is vs horse feed. Which again drives the high prices by lack of competition and loss of not being able to make medicated feeds.
Exactly.
The fact that they cannot guarantee that there is NO cross contamination when mixing feed in the same facility should be enough to discontinue this process. Horse owners will have to push for new regulations as well as only purchasing horse feeds from IONOPHORE FREE mills. | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | rachellyn80 - 2015-02-06 11:26 AM Zebra racer - 2015-02-06 10:18 AM New lurker here too. We had HACCP in a facility where I worked and it was nothing more than a waiver to lower our insurance rates. It is only as good as the practices that are truly followed. With low wages usually brings low quality of work. Someone who makes $7 hour and doesn't own an animal might not care about skipping a step or telling his boss he made an error. And if a white collar high paid guy doesn't go inspect what is actually being done, they don't know. The safest thing is to find a facility that is horse feed only. Unfortunately there are way more cattle to be fed and that is where the money is vs horse feed. Which again drives the high prices by lack of competition and loss of not being able to make medicated feeds. Exactly.
The fact that they cannot guarantee that there is NO cross contamination when mixing feed in the same facility should be enough to discontinue this process. Horse owners will have to push for new regulations as well as only purchasing horse feeds from IONOPHORE FREE mills.
Until it makes a dent in the mills who use monensin, they will not stop cross-producing.
Horse people - quit buying it. The only way to stop it. And, see if we can get the laws changed.
I have. And, hopefully, it will be all right in the long run. | |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| Jazz's Girl - 2015-02-05 9:45 AM I switched from Nutrena SC to Producers Co-op feed about 6 months ago due to price and ease of buying. I drive right by the feedstore that sells it twice a day while going to my local tsc was 25 mls out of the way. I emailed them and this was their reply.... Yes we do use ionophore additives in the same facility as we manufacture horse feeds. We take great care to ensure that there is no cross-contamination. Within our computerized batching system, we have safeguards built in that prevent horse feeds from being made right before or right after. These safeguards are used from the mixer to the bagger or bulk truck. We also double check the records every day to make sure there was not a glitch or mistake. If there is ever any doubt, all feed from that batch is quarantined until we can dig deeper. All medications are inventoried through a computerized system. Barcodes must be scanned on drugs being weighed out of inventory to ensure the proper additive is being used and scanned again going into the mixer to prevent contaminating the wrong batch. Thank you for the question and feel free to contact us if you have further questions. Robert Barrett, PAS Nutritionist Producers Cooperative Association 979-778-6000 I took my barrel horse off all processed feeds and started her on Chaffhay because of ulcers. It has helped her 100%. But can they eat just Alfalfa? I give her a high fat supplement as well for added fat and other nutrients. Ive been told oats and alfalfa is ok. Would that be enough? I will not feed producers again. This scares me and Im not willing to gamble on my horses health.
I would have to ask for more details just for fun. Exactly what are the safeguards? Running a batch thru just to clean the lines is not cleaning the lines. Ask to see the SOP? Or an example of the records they are saying they double check.
And computerized also leads back to human error. The input is only as good as the output. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | I just hung up from my local Purina rep. Our Purina comes out of KC and the cattle products out of Sioux City. She reassured me that anything coming out of a Purina bag (equine) is safe. I hope so. I was feeding my gelding Nutrena but after seeing SKM's post that's making me a little nervous. | |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | CYA Ranch - 2015-02-06 8:45 AM
I just hung up from my local Purina rep. Our Purina comes out of KC and the cattle products out of Sioux City. She reassured me that anything coming out of a Purina bag (equine) is safe. I hope so. I was feeding my gelding Nutrena but after seeing SKM's post that's making me a little nervous.
I hope they are correct and not telling us what we want to hear......After reading about needing to be worried about the trucks who haul the grain, I am leaning towards zero grain. This is NUTS!
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