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 Vodka for Lunch
  
Location: Lala Land | Love, Love, Love!!! Mine has such a huge heart! Very "know it all" mentality, show him once and he thinks he's an NFR horse. lol Very kind, athletic, and can fly! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 724
| I had a chance to buy a big grey race mare that was off the track, she was a beduino granddaughter, she had a lump on her knee so I decided not too but she was wicked fast, and built huge. She won races all over the nw and canada. Sometimes I think I maybe should have gave it a chance but I'm not much of a mare person either. She was also extremely hot. And that was with 3 years off and having a foal. |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | jbhoot - 2013-11-24 11:25 AM roxieannie - 2013-11-24 10:22 AM kwanatha - 2013-11-24 10:02 AM annemarea - 2013-11-24 7:01 AM I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation. are you saying that beduino is susupect carrier for type 2 pssm? I find the above statements highly speculative. First beduino was a TB and pssm is rare in TB's. Second pssm traces back over 1200 years and effects over 20 breeds of horses. Third the highest occurrence of pssm in QH is in the halter blood lines not racing. The Quarter Horse Ass. is currently funding gene testing on pssm and has no results as of yet.
I agree that the above statements are highly speculative. I have no "proof" and am simply going off of multiple peoples outspoken opinions on the line, including trainers who deal with these horses on a daily basis for a living. I could be totally wrong, and hopefully soon they will identify the Type 2 gene. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that Type 2 is not rare and much more common that most think. Most will not spend the time and money to muscle biopsy their horses in order to find out. I did. I have 2 out of 3 horses that are positive for Type 2 PSSM, but negative for Type 1. Both have alot of TB in them and are more running bred and were bred specifically for barrel racing. Before I tested my CB gelding, PSSM forums were guessing he'd test positive for Type 1 due to his sire's line and proven Type 1 positive horses coming from those bloodlines. He didn't.
I was unable to find anything that stated PSSM Type 2 is rare in TB's? Can you lead me to such research? I was able to find to following statement from U of M on both PSSM Type 1 and 2.
"There are two different types of PSSM found in horses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 is found in over 20 breeds and commonly affects Quarter Horses, Quarter Horse-related breeds, Morgans, some Draft breeds and some warmbloods. Type 2 PSSM is found in Quarter Horses, Arabians, Thoroughbreds and potentially other light breeds." |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| annemarea - 2013-11-24 2:41 PM
jbhoot - 2013-11-24 11:25 AM roxieannie - 2013-11-24 10:22 AM kwanatha - 2013-11-24 10:02 AM annemarea - 2013-11-24 7:01 AM I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation. are you saying that beduino is susupect carrier for type 2 pssm? I find the above statements highly speculative. First beduino was a TB and pssm is rare in TB's. Second pssm traces back over 1200 years and effects over 20 breeds of horses. Third the highest occurrence of pssm in QH is in the halter blood lines not racing. The Quarter Horse Ass. is currently funding gene testing on pssm and has no results as of yet.
I was unable to find anything that stated PSSM Type 2 is rare in TB's? Can you lead me to such research? I was able to find to following statement from U of M on both PSSM Type 1 and 2.
"There are two different types of PSSM found in horses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 is found in over 20 breeds and commonly affects Quarter Horses, Quarter Horse-related breeds, Morgans, some Draft breeds and some warmbloods. Type 2 PSSM is found in Quarter Horses, Arabians, Thoroughbreds and potentially other light breeds."
I refer you to Dr. Stephanie Valberg DVM. Minn. college of Vet.Med. Stated at the 2011 TEVA conference. That Type1 pssm is from a gene mutation. Type 2 pssm cause unknown at this date. She further states "Type 1 pssm in Arabins and Thoroughbreds is vary low". She goes on to say That Quarter Horses type 1pssm shows up in 28% of halterbred--6to10% in the general population with racing QH being the lowest. Don't ask me for a link I don't know how to do it. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | jbhoot - 2013-11-24 3:40 PM annemarea - 2013-11-24 2:41 PM jbhoot - 2013-11-24 11:25 AM roxieannie - 2013-11-24 10:22 AM kwanatha - 2013-11-24 10:02 AM annemarea - 2013-11-24 7:01 AM I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation. are you saying that beduino is susupect carrier for type 2 pssm? I find the above statements highly speculative. First beduino was a TB and pssm is rare in TB's. Second pssm traces back over 1200 years and effects over 20 breeds of horses. Third the highest occurrence of pssm in QH is in the halter blood lines not racing. The Quarter Horse Ass. is currently funding gene testing on pssm and has no results as of yet.
I was unable to find anything that stated PSSM Type 2 is rare in TB's? Can you lead me to such research? I was able to find to following statement from U of M on both PSSM Type 1 and 2.
"There are two different types of PSSM found in horses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 is found in over 20 breeds and commonly affects Quarter Horses, Quarter Horse-related breeds, Morgans, some Draft breeds and some warmbloods. Type 2 PSSM is found in Quarter Horses, Arabians, Thoroughbreds and potentially other light breeds." I refer you to Dr. Stephanie Valberg DVM. Minn. college of Vet.Med. Stated at the 2011 TEVA conference. That Type1 pssm is from a gene mutation. Type 2 pssm cause unknown at this date. She further states "Type 1 pssm in Arabins and Thoroughbreds is vary low". She goes on to say That Quarter Horses type 1pssm shows up in 28% of halterbred--6to10% in the general population with racing QH being the lowest. Don't ask me for a link I don't know how to do it.
Right, but my Chicks Beduino is NOT Type 1.....he is Type 2 and they are currently researching the gene for Type 2. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | If you go to the FB PSSM forum, a highly educated lady just told me that both PSSM Type 2 and RER are the two most common muscle disorders in Thoroughbreds. I'm asking her to send me info on research to support that for you. I understand that people get sensitive when certain lines are named as suspect, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....generally speaking that's because it's A DUCK.
As far as Type 2 not having been PROVEN to be genetic... I know alot of people like to use that statement to say it's OK to breed as long as they are Type 1 negative, however, if the U of M did not feel it was genetic they would not be spending thousands in research. Here is a link which includes a letter asking for money for research for Type 2. Common sense tells me that Type 2 is genetic and also more than likely a dominant gene, just like Type 1 is.
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=437470&start=1
Edited by annemarea 2013-11-24 4:38 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas | I have only owned 1 Beduino bred gelding several years ago. 1) Extremely fast, I believe the fastest horse I have ever ridden. 2) He was goofy and did NOT want to be a barrel horse.
Tried everything to make him want to be a barrel horse...he would not have anything to do with them. Eventually sold him to a hunter jumper and he took to that like water on a ducks back.
So IMO I dont think I would own one for a barrel prospect...but you just never know..lol!
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| annemarea - 2013-11-24 3:44 PM
jbhoot - 2013-11-24 3:40 PM annemarea - 2013-11-24 2:41 PM jbhoot - 2013-11-24 11:25 AM roxieannie - 2013-11-24 10:22 AM kwanatha - 2013-11-24 10:02 AM annemarea - 2013-11-24 7:01 AM I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation. are you saying that beduino is susupect carrier for type 2 pssm? I find the above statements highly speculative. First beduino was a TB and pssm is rare in TB's. Second pssm traces back over 1200 years and effects over 20 breeds of horses. Third the highest occurrence of pssm in QH is in the halter blood lines not racing. The Quarter Horse Ass. is currently funding gene testing on pssm and has no results as of yet.
I was unable to find anything that stated PSSM Type 2 is rare in TB's? Can you lead me to such research? I was able to find to following statement from U of M on both PSSM Type 1 and 2.
"There are two different types of PSSM found in horses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 is found in over 20 breeds and commonly affects Quarter Horses, Quarter Horse-related breeds, Morgans, some Draft breeds and some warmbloods. Type 2 PSSM is found in Quarter Horses, Arabians, Thoroughbreds and potentially other light breeds." I refer you to Dr. Stephanie Valberg DVM. Minn. college of Vet.Med. Stated at the 2011 TEVA conference. That Type1 pssm is from a gene mutation. Type 2 pssm cause unknown at this date. She further states "Type 1 pssm in Arabins and Thoroughbreds is vary low". She goes on to say That Quarter Horses type 1pssm shows up in 28% of halterbred--6to10% in the general population with racing QH being the lowest. Don't ask me for a link I don't know how to do it.
You in your first statement made the inference that this comes from Beduino TB. I think the odds of that are really low. If chicks Bedunio carrys type 2 I would look at his bottom side for a genetic marker Because the odds that it comes from the TB side is low. Besides at this point they are not sure type 2 is genetic they only suspect. In your previous Statements you seem to blame the TB side of your horses for the pssm I think the odds of this are slim. In every thing that I have read on this it traces back middle Europe and their draft breeds having the highest markers. Since Arabians and Thoroughbreds have had a closed stud book for hundred's of years it is no surprise that it is rare in these breeds. If type 2 does prove to be genetic I would look at the foundation side of the Quarter Horse. In the early days of the QH reg. They let a lot of horses in on TYPE only with unknown parents. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| If it doesn't have beduino I don't want it. And I would bet most of the bad beduino horses had/have bad trainers. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | it would not surprise me to find out that chicks beduino's dam was a carrier I see suspect there. it might even explain why i have heard hit and miss on chicks beduino offspring. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Directly from U of M website:
Type 2 PSSM is found in Quarter Horses, Arabians, Thoroughbreds and potentially other light breeds.
Yes there is a DNA test to determine if a horse has the genetic mutation that causes PSSM type 1. Until we know more about the basic cellular mechanism involved in PSSM type 2 we will have difficulty identifying the gene with its mutation. Genetic research into PSSM type 2 is on going and we welcome working with breeding farms with several related PSSM and healthy horses that would allow us to study their herd. We would welcome contact from such breeders. Please contact Dr. Stephanie Valberg at the University of Minnesota ([email protected]) |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | jbhoot - 2013-11-24 4:43 PM
annemarea - 2013-11-24 3:44 PM
jbhoot - 2013-11-24 3:40 PM annemarea - 2013-11-24 2:41 PM jbhoot - 2013-11-24 11:25 AM roxieannie - 2013-11-24 10:22 AM kwanatha - 2013-11-24 10:02 AM annemarea - 2013-11-24 7:01 AM I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation. are you saying that beduino is susupect carrier for type 2 pssm? I find the above statements highly speculative. First beduino was a TB and pssm is rare in TB's. Second pssm traces back over 1200 years and effects over 20 breeds of horses. Third the highest occurrence of pssm in QH is in the halter blood lines not racing. The Quarter Horse Ass. is currently funding gene testing on pssm and has no results as of yet.
I was unable to find anything that stated PSSM Type 2 is rare in TB's? Can you lead me to such research? I was able to find to following statement from U of M on both PSSM Type 1 and 2.
"There are two different types of PSSM found in horses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 is found in over 20 breeds and commonly affects Quarter Horses, Quarter Horse-related breeds, Morgans, some Draft breeds and some warmbloods. Type 2 PSSM is found in Quarter Horses, Arabians, Thoroughbreds and potentially other light breeds." I refer you to Dr. Stephanie Valberg DVM. Minn. college of Vet.Med. Stated at the 2011 TEVA conference. That Type1 pssm is from a gene mutation. Type 2 pssm cause unknown at this date. She further states "Type 1 pssm in Arabins and Thoroughbreds is vary low". She goes on to say That Quarter Horses type 1pssm shows up in 28% of halterbred--6to10% in the general population with racing QH being the lowest. Don't ask me for a link I don't know how to do it.
You in your first statement made the inference that this comes from Beduino TB. I think the odds of that are really low. If chicks Bedunio carrys type 2 I would look at his bottom side for a genetic marker Because the odds that it comes from the TB side is low. Besides at this point they are not sure type 2 is genetic they only suspect. In your previous Statements you seem to blame the TB side of your horses for the pssm I think the odds of this are slim. In every thing that I have read on this it traces back middle Europe and their draft breeds having the highest markers. Since Arabians and Thoroughbreds have had a closed stud book for hundred's of years it is no surprise that it is rare in these breeds. If type 2 does prove to be genetic I would look at the foundation side of the Quarter Horse. In the early days of the QH reg. They let a lot of horses in on TYPE only with unknown parents.
Beduino or Chicks Beduino... If either is mentioned to a trainer, I generally get the whole "cold-backed, difficult" response. I have no idea if it's only one or the other. Please see above statements from U of M stating PSSM Type 2 is, in fact, found in both TB and Arabian lines and that it, too, is believed to be genetic. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I know people dont like chicks beduino but that is because of the chicks deck not the beduino. |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24139
Location: Carpenter, WY | So far so good on ours She is very, very smart and athletic. Is takin to the colt starting process very easily. If anything she wants to push off her rear and go everywhere fast but is riding out overall just fine.
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | annemarea - 2013-11-24 9:01 AM
I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation.Â
what's the reg name of your other PSSM horse? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | casualdust07 - 2013-11-24 5:40 PM
annemarea - 2013-11-24 9:01 AM
I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation.Â
what's the reg name of your other PSSM horse?
She is APHA registered Ima Mighty Patriot. I was able to contact her sire's owner, but not her dam's owner. As soon as they both came back with Type 2 results, I did let both breeders know. I also submitted blood samples to Dr Stephanie so they would have their DNA on file to help with PSSM TYPE 2 research. The mare is a total hot crazy crackhead to the 24th power when she's hurting. Love her to death, though! |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | annemarea - 2013-11-24 6:12 PM
casualdust07 - 2013-11-24 5:40 PM
annemarea - 2013-11-24 9:01 AM
I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation.Â
what's the reg name of your other PSSM horse?
She is APHA registered Ima Mighty Patriot. I was able to contact her sire's owner, but not her dam's owner. As soon as they both came back with Type 2 results, I did let both breeders know. I also submitted blood samples to Dr Stephanie so they would have their DNA on file to help with PSSM TYPE 2 research. The mare is a total hot crazy crackhead to the 24th power when she's hurting. Love her to death, though!
she's not chicks beduino at all right? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I just checked the files on the PSSM Forum and another horse has been added to the Type 2 Positive list. Currently there are 3 AQHA, 1 APHA, and one TB. I'm not sure it's legal for me to share those lines, but if you join the FB forum you can take a look at them. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | casualdust07 - 2013-11-24 6:18 PM
annemarea - 2013-11-24 6:12 PM
casualdust07 - 2013-11-24 5:40 PM
annemarea - 2013-11-24 9:01 AM
I honestly believe they got the bad rap from PSSM. Mine is a grandson of Chicks Beduino and he got a bad rap at the trainer....trainer blamed the Beduino, too. He ended up testing positive for PSSM Type 2. Makes total sense to me now. It is a genetic disorder, so it just keeps getting passed down to the next generation.Â
what's the reg name of your other PSSM horse?
She is APHA registered Ima Mighty Patriot. I was able to contact her sire's owner, but not her dam's owner. As soon as they both came back with Type 2 results, I did let both breeders know. I also submitted blood samples to Dr Stephanie so they would have their DNA on file to help with PSSM TYPE 2 research. The mare is a total hot crazy crackhead to the 24th power when she's hurting. Love her to death, though!
she's not chicks beduino at all right?
No. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I pulled them up on all breed and did a hypo mating just to have both of their pedigrees back to back to see if there were any common ancestors. all breed didn't pick up any similar heritage at all between them. So, if it is genetic and I agree it most likely is, I think there's a lot more that needs to be done before we speculate specific horses as carriers.
I definitely agree that they will find a genetic link with PSSM type 2. I just don't think there's enough evidence yet to pin point a specific animal as a source of it. Who's to say the 3YO didn't get it from the Flit to Kill side?
ETA- it very well may also be an environmental deal. What if nutrition has to do with them developing the condition? or something in utero? who knows. There's many conditions that we can create, or trigger…
Edited by casualdust07 2013-11-24 6:43 PM
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