|
|
 Expert
Posts: 2135
  
Location: Somewhere else | All of mine get a gallon a day except for the old mare and she gets 2 gallons a day. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 632
Location: Missouri | hlynn - 2013-11-25 11:57 AM
Horses will have a "hay belly" for one or both of two big reasons (there are others, but these are common):
1. Lack of protein. If the horse isn't getting enough protein, their bellies will look bloated, but you can still see ribs. Make sure you're feeding the MINIMUM recommended amount each day of the feed you're feeding. If she's not in work, & usually an easy keeper, try a ration balancer. I DO NOT recommend the Purina version, as it is complete junk. But if you can get your hands on Triple Crown 30% or Buckeye Gro N Win, they are both awesome choices. You only feed 1-3lbs a day of it & that's all they need. You can add fat to it if you like whether you use the Healthy Coat oil for that or add in a rice bran supplement. Sounds like a ration balancer would be the best bet for your situation. It is NOT a good idea to feed more than 3-4lbs at a time to a horse. And if you can't feed the full 6-10lbs more feeds require, you're just wasting feed.
2. Junky hay. Really stringy hay or dry/not so lovely hay takes a long time to digest, so it stays in the gut longer, causing a horse to have a hay belly. Most round bales are grass hay, & not always kept nicely after being in the field, so that's usually what does it. Junky hay is fine, as long as you're not trying to win a beauty pageant. And most horses lose it when they're in good work. Exercise aids in digestion.
ETA: A ration balancer has a minimal amount of fat, so it's not good for harder keepers. A higher fat feed, like Triple Crown Senior, will give a good amount of fat without all the extra starches & other things. But again, you NEED to feed the minimum if you're going to see any difference.
I used to feed 1-2lbs of the 30% ration balancer along with about 2lbs of the Triple Crown Senior to my easier keepers who needed a little extra fat. The 30% is about $30 a bag, but you're only feeding 1-3lbs a DAY. Same with the Senior. So it ends up being pretty cheap in the long run.
She is 7 and is a harder keeper.
I have found a dealer that carries triple crown feeds. Which do you recommend for a feed? |
|
| |
|
  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Rdcreations - 2013-11-25 1:20 PM
hlynn - 2013-11-25 11:57 AM
Horses will have a "hay belly" for one or both of two big reasons (there are others, but these are common):
1. Lack of protein. If the horse isn't getting enough protein, their bellies will look bloated, but you can still see ribs. Make sure you're feeding the MINIMUM recommended amount each day of the feed you're feeding. If she's not in work, & usually an easy keeper, try a ration balancer. I DO NOT recommend the Purina version, as it is complete junk. But if you can get your hands on Triple Crown 30% or Buckeye Gro N Win, they are both awesome choices. You only feed 1-3lbs a day of it & that's all they need. You can add fat to it if you like whether you use the Healthy Coat oil for that or add in a rice bran supplement. Sounds like a ration balancer would be the best bet for your situation. It is NOT a good idea to feed more than 3-4lbs at a time to a horse. And if you can't feed the full 6-10lbs more feeds require, you're just wasting feed.
2. Junky hay. Really stringy hay or dry/not so lovely hay takes a long time to digest, so it stays in the gut longer, causing a horse to have a hay belly. Most round bales are grass hay, & not always kept nicely after being in the field, so that's usually what does it. Junky hay is fine, as long as you're not trying to win a beauty pageant. And most horses lose it when they're in good work. Exercise aids in digestion.
ETA: A ration balancer has a minimal amount of fat, so it's not good for harder keepers. A higher fat feed, like Triple Crown Senior, will give a good amount of fat without all the extra starches & other things. But again, you NEED to feed the minimum if you're going to see any difference.
I used to feed 1-2lbs of the 30% ration balancer along with about 2lbs of the Triple Crown Senior to my easier keepers who needed a little extra fat. The 30% is about $30 a bag, but you're only feeding 1-3lbs a DAY. Same with the Senior. So it ends up being pretty cheap in the long run.
She is 7 and is a harder keeper.
I have found a dealer that carries triple crown feeds. Which do you recommend for a feed?
I love the Senior for a hard keeper. And it's really low starch, so it's safe to feed to horses prone to ulcers. It's 10% fat. I've had really great luck with it, but I also feed at least 6lbs a day split into two feedings.
You could try the 30% with some rice bran added to it. The Empower Boost is a rice bran based supplement, along with the Omega Fields products. But I'm not sure if it would keep/put the fat on her that she would need if she's a harder keeper.
It can get pricey though, adding so many fatty things to it. I tried it with the hard keeper I had, then switched to the Senior bc it ended up being cheaper & a whole lot easier,
|
|
| |
|
 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | kakbarrelracer - 2013-11-25 11:30 AM Maybe she needs to be wormed? The ribs showing with a big belly can be a sign of worms.
I agree with this, you haven't mentioned your deworming schedule or if this horse is new. If you've dewormed her and she is still like this, I like to use a "modified" power pack. Instead of giving safeguard everyday for a week like the typical powerpack I will give a safeguard a week apart, has almost everytime helped with the ribs and topline. You may want to add some alfalfa for protein, easy enough to give a little more bang for your buck, but they can get hot. I feed minimal grain just to get the supplements into my guys. The get about 2 pounds of cob a cup of flax and a cup of woodys bloom n groom (pelleted mineral supplement) they seem to do well. Higher protein feeds generally are made for colts, so you might have luck with "futurity blend" or "jr" feeds, you might be able to add a little more protein with less bulk for her to eat. Sounds like you have enough fat......I would start with the deworming though and then make sure you are weighing you feed. |
|
| |
|
 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Mine are all on a round bale at home (hay bags or square bale flakes tossed on the ground at Matt's when we spend weekends there) and I grain them twice a day just like normal. My grain is about 11 percent protein and Joker had gotten a little thin this summer so about a month, month & a half ago, I started adding black oil sunflower seeds (maybe a handful per feeding) to his grain. He has really put on the weight and in fact, last weekend I had to let the cinch out a notch on him. Pretty good for a 20 year old who's not getting any special senior feed or supplements. The sunflower seeds cost about $15 for a 25 pound bag and one bag lasts my 3 horses close to a month. I was shocked at the results on him & Clifford (who was looking a little ribby late in the summer) and honestly all 3 of mine have put on some weight with the seeds.
Do you drive out to feed that one time a day? And if so, how long are you out there? Would it be possible to feed 3/4 your normal grain when you first get there, do other stuff for an hour and then feed her that same amount again?
As far as supplements go, I tried THE's Muscle Mass and didn't see any changes on Joker a few years ago. I'm guessing he just needed the extra fat (sunflower seeds) more than additional muscle. Matt has fed beet pulp and rice bran pellets to his Joker with great results. He actually has pulled the beet pulp because his Joker is bulkier and fatter now than I've ever seen him. He says rice bran pellets are pretty pricey but they've gotten him results. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I feed off a round bale 2xs a day and just put a round out when bad weather heads our way. I use EquiLix tubs and give alfalfa pellets as the "grain". When one needs more calories i'll add whole oats or beet pulp. They only get "grain" once a day. |
|
| |
|
 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-25 11:28 AM I use round bales free choice and there's quite a lot of alfalfa mixed in. If I'm not really working them very hard I don't grain them until it gets into the cold winter months like January-March. Then I grain them all once a day. In the warmer months, I only grain the ones I'm conditioning and competing on regularly.
This is what I do also. I have one pasture of horses that aren't ridden - they have round bales and get no grain. I throw out a lick tub. My other horses are being ridden, 1 is a growing yearling and the other is my broodmare. They all get grained once a day plus a lick tub. I don't feel they need grain twice a day. |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Here's how I look at most routine "maintenence programs" when it comes to horses. Simplest is best. I think sometimes there's a tendency to come up with complicated approaches to simple problems. When it comes to feeding horses, I sort of turn the channel or gloss over when people make it too complex, and too exact. I can see minerals and salt and after that I think what is important is a good hay and plenty of it. Concentrates are fine if you are really working and conditioning a horse, but I am starting to think even that has become needlessly complex and analytical.....mainly because people fall for it and end up buying something that hasn't been really proven significantly effective. Pelleted feeds I think are a good example. Just toss in whatever junk you have sitting at the bottom of some bin, and grind it up into these nice pellets. We really don't know what goes into these pellets. For all we know there's sawdust in some of them. If I am going to feed grain, then I buy grain and let them enjoy it, whether it's a mixture of grains or not. Personally, I like feeds like the old Scamper's Choice, but I don't think it's one bit better than a good mix of fresh grain from a local elevator. Toss in a tiny bit of blackstrap molasses, and that's more than enough.
I draw a similar analogy when I read someone's explanation of a training method. If it is too precise, too rigid, and complicated sounding, I get turned off and lose any confidence that this person is as good as he says he is. |
|
| |
|
 Pokey's Honor Guard
Posts: 3041
Location: North Texas | I have three horses age 9, 14, and 24. They are all out 24/7 on pasture until I need to put out a round bale. They get fed 1/2 scoop each in the mornings and 1/2 scoop at night and I feed their supplements at night and only one gets Exceed 6Way and Bleed Block and the rest nothing. I feed an extruded feed from Muenster Milling called Xtreme 10/10. http://www.muenstermilling.com/content.php?page=Horse%20Feed%20-%20Extreme%2010 Its also high in Omega 3 and 6. My horses (even my older horse) all look great on this program. Out of the 3 horses only one is worked regularly and used for competition and I don't have to change anything on my feeding unless on the road and I up her 1/2 scoop to full scoop and increase her hay, but once back home its back to normal.
Edited by doc o lena bar 2013-11-25 4:28 PM
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 323
| Sounds like your hay isn't the best. I feed round grass bales the year round and the horses are out to pasture part of the time as well. We put up our own so have more control over the quality of the hay. I adjust my feed program to the quality of the hay. Try not to over feed grain. I think a lot of problem start with too much grain. The one thing I have found that helps is keeping mineral in front of them. There are several brands that are good, everybody has their favorite, but that is an important part of a horses diet to me. The same with feeds, everybody has an opinion. You just have to try a few and see what works for you. Don't hear much about it, but I have had good luck with Patriot, by ADM. The horses do well on it and it doesn't make them hot.
|
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 563
Location: Small Town Iowa | How good of quality is your hay. I grain my two once per day. And it's a plastic scoop of whole oats, and a half of scoop of 14% pellets and 2 oz of trace mineral in thier feed. And then I scrape off of my round bale, I hay twice per day. The only reason I feed the mineral because I had 14 round bales given to me but it is of poor quality, not moldy just not great hay. My two are very very round. And also another thought, what does your horses teeth look like? They may need floated, I had a gelding that had a great bottom line and a very poor top line. Got his teeth floated he filled out on the top line withing a few months, and I've always kept mine outside 24/7. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | HotbearLVR - 2013-11-25 11:28 AM I use round bales free choice and there's quite a lot of alfalfa mixed in. If I'm not really working them very hard I don't grain them until it gets into the cold winter months like January-March. Then I grain them all once a day. In the warmer months, I only grain the ones I'm conditioning and competing on regularly.
Do you have problems with horses performing and breathing issues feeding off your round bales? |
|
| |
|
 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Depends on the horses and how the round bales are fed.
I have those slow feed nets that go on my round bales.
I have a big bale in my weanling pen (4 babies) and still grain them 2X a day.
I've got the 3 year olds that I'm riding in with a round bale. I only grain them once a day, after I ride them. That is mainly to get their supplements. (They are all easy keepers, and kept UTD on teeth and deworming).
Then I've got a pen of other horses that are on a round bale and don't need any grain at all. I just keep a salt block and loose mineral out for them.
Our grass and our grass hay is really good where I live so we usually don't have to feed much grain at all.
In fact our yearlings and our broodmares are all still out on pasture and all of them are almost obese even though the grass is now dead. I won't feed them any hay until the grass gets snowed under. |
|
| |
|
Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | uno-dos-tres! - 2013-11-26 8:15 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-11-25 11:28 AM I use round bales free choice and there's quite a lot of alfalfa mixed in. If I'm not really working them very hard I don't grain them until it gets into the cold winter months like January-March. Then I grain them all once a day. In the warmer months, I only grain the ones I'm conditioning and competing on regularly. Do you have problems with horses performing and breathing issues feeding off your round bales?
The nets we use on them keep them from burying their heads into the bale too....I'm sure that helps.
Edited by rockinas 2013-11-26 8:45 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | rockinas - 2013-11-26 8:44 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2013-11-26 8:15 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-11-25 11:28 AM I use round bales free choice and there's quite a lot of alfalfa mixed in. If I'm not really working them very hard I don't grain them until it gets into the cold winter months like January-March. Then I grain them all once a day. In the warmer months, I only grain the ones I'm conditioning and competing on regularly. Do you have problems with horses performing and breathing issues feeding off your round bales?
The nets we use on them keep them from burying their heads into the bale too....I'm sure that helps.
Thanks Amy, I was actually wondering yesterday if I should try to a net on the colts bale to see if it would help with "dust management". I hate putting the net on by myself any tips? I LOVE the net for my broodies. |
|
| |
|
 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
Location: West Tennessee | I think that the one thing missed frequently on these threads is to:
Check the weight on your food if you haven't already
Grain is fed at recommended lbs per lbs/activity level of the horse -- a scoop of one kind of grain may not equal the same scoop of another kind of grain by weight.
Think of it this way if you fill the same scoop with pebbles it will weigh more than if you fill it with popcorn.
PS: I'm not fussing, because it sure took literal experimenting for me to get it through my thick head that a scoop isn't necessarily X lbs. We had a standard so scoop (3 qt, I think?) so 96 oz or 6 lbs right? One full scoop was only appx 1 lb of our SR feed and appx 2 lbs of moorglo.
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 631
Location: Oologah, Oklahoma | My 5 easy keepers are on a round bale 24/7. They each get a pound of ADM Alliance StayStrong Metabolic pellets once a day and they are shiny, round, and happy. |
|
| |
|
 Left Out
Posts: 6795
Location: Silex Missouri | Every horse on our property with exceptions being the stallions who are in stalls, have access to round bales 24/7 regardless of the fact that they also have pasture. But here in the winter time the pasture has no real nutritional value. Our weanlings and one hard keeping mare is on Alfalfa round bales and our mares within 60 days of foaling are on Alfalfa round bales. The rest are on grass round bales. However, all of our horses recieve grain two times a day. A corn/oat soybean oil mixture. All of our horses are fat with creases down their backs. |
|
| |
|
Left Out
Posts: 6795
Location: Silex Missouri | uno-dos-tres! - 2013-11-26 9:15 AM rockinas - 2013-11-26 8:44 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2013-11-26 8:15 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-11-25 11:28 AM I use round bales free choice and there's quite a lot of alfalfa mixed in. If I'm not really working them very hard I don't grain them until it gets into the cold winter months like January-March. Then I grain them all once a day. In the warmer months, I only grain the ones I'm conditioning and competing on regularly. Do you have problems with horses performing and breathing issues feeding off your round bales?
The nets we use on them keep them from burying their heads into the bale too....I'm sure that helps.
I do not notice any breathing issues from the round bales. We don't have nets on ours and they can all bury their heads in the bale. They like to eat the center of the bale first ;-) But our bales are also put up dry. We don't feed any round bales that were not put up dry. Our bales are all under roof until they are put out to be fed. I think that is a big thing with ours. They aren't dusty from getting wet and dry and don't have the mold spores from getting soaked. |
|
| |
|
 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Mine are fed 2x a day off a round bale. I do not grain most of my horses & they all look fine. No ribs, nice toplines & good muscle. The only ones that are grained are my 2 old broodmares, the old retired gelding & the yearling. |
|
| |
Folks on-line