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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
   
| SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM
In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt.
Yes, an unstarted colt is going to need groundwork, and I consider that a "ride". But I tell the owner up front that 30 rides on an unstarted colt will likely be 5-10 days of ground work and 20-25 rides. And when it comes to starting colts, I know that some can be quite broncy, and well I'm not a bronc-stomper! So if I get to going with the horse and realize that I'm not going to be able to do the horse justice, I will have them get in contact with the cowboy that we send broncy colts to. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Jenbabe - 2013-12-05 10:00 AM SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt. Yes, an unstarted colt is going to need groundwork, and I consider that a "ride". But I tell the owner up front that 30 rides on an unstarted colt will likely be 5-10 days of ground work and 20-25 rides. And when it comes to starting colts, I know that some can be quite broncy, and well I'm not a bronc-stomper! So if I get to going with the horse and realize that I'm not going to be able to do the horse justice, I will have them get in contact with the cowboy that we send broncy colts to.
Same here! :) I have gotten away from most of the colt starting but the few I do take for that part the owners know up front that if the horse is a bucker that it's going to have to go elsewhere. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Jenbabe - 2013-12-05 11:00 AM SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt. Yes, an unstarted colt is going to need groundwork, and I consider that a "ride". But I tell the owner up front that 30 rides on an unstarted colt will likely be 5-10 days of ground work and 20-25 rides. And when it comes to starting colts, I know that some can be quite broncy, and well I'm not a bronc-stomper! So if I get to going with the horse and realize that I'm not going to be able to do the horse justice, I will have them get in contact with the cowboy that we send broncy colts to.
I think this is the key part. Setting the expectations from the get go. The OP should have never gotten there a month later and been surprised by how little the trainer had accomplished under saddle. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | Jenbabe - 2013-12-05 11:00 AM
SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM
In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt.
Yes, an unstarted colt is going to need groundwork, and I consider that a "ride". But I tell the owner up front that 30 rides on an unstarted colt will likely be 5-10 days of ground work and 20-25 rides. And when it comes to starting colts, I know that some can be quite broncy, and well I'm not a bronc-stomper! So if I get to going with the horse and realize that I'm not going to be able to do the horse justice, I will have them get in contact with the cowboy that we send broncy colts to.
So far he's not broncy, otherwise I wouldn't even be messing with him. There are enough horses out there that don't buck to mess with one that prefers it. Apparently his issue is going backwards--that's his solution for any type of pressure, according to her. But, my concern is that going backwards will manifest into going over backwards, which I also want no part of. So if taking it slow prevents that issue from developing, I'm fine with it. |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | SoonerLawyer - 2013-12-05 9:39 AM SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt. Thank you, that helps set some parameters, and that seems to be in line with what I'm getting from her thus far.
Biggest thing is just keep the communication open between you & the trainer. If they value their reputation they will make sure things turn out for you & your horse.
I had one horse this fall who due to the weather I gave up on & sent home 2 weeks early. We where getting so much rain that I was lucky to get 1-2 rides on her a week so it just wasn't worth it to me to keep feeding her when I couldn't even be somewhat consistent in rides. I sent her home (even though the customer had paid up front) with the understanding that she gets to come back in the spring for me to finish my rides on at no extra charge. Works out great for the customer as not only does she get the last 2 weeks of riding done but she gets a spring tune up at the same time! |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | SaraJean - 2013-12-05 11:14 AM
SoonerLawyer - 2013-12-05 9:39 AM SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt. Thank you, that helps set some parameters, and that seems to be in line with what I'm getting from her thus far.
I had one horse this fall who due to the weather I gave up on & sent home 2 weeks early. We where getting so much rain that I was lucky to get 1-2 rides on her a week so it just wasn't worth it to me to keep feeding her when I couldn't even be somewhat consistent in rides. I sent her home (even though the customer had paid up front) with the understanding that she gets to come back in the spring for me to finish my rides on at no extra charge. Works out great for the customer as not only does she get the last 2 weeks of riding done but she gets a spring tune up at the same time!Â
I just talked to her and she said he's made steady progress this week. So hopefully things will smooth out and he'll come along quickly now. I think he's a nice prospect even if he has turned into more of a project than I first anticipated. |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | I took my colt in earlier this year to be broke out as a 2.5yr old. He had been saddled, but is quirky. Guy was riding him on the 3rd day, then he was ridden 5 days a week for a month, as specified before I brought him there. His daughter rodeos so he would switch days, etc. $500, now $550 I think for 30days (22ish rides). He has an indoor so weather isn't an issue. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Unless you know someone real well, I think it can be a bit of a gamble when selecting a trainer. All you can go by is word of mouth. You really have no way of knowing for sure that a trainer has done what he says he's done. That bugs the heck out of me, but I just have to rely on reputation and my gut feeling. If you send a colt away for 2-3 months and you can't really feel that much difference when you ride them again, something doesn't click. For the most part, I've been lucky and I haven't had to use trainers all that much, but I have had mixed results. One thing that I think is reassuring is getting an update. I don't think expecting an update once a week is asking too much. It only takes a few minutes. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 855
Location: Ok | JRC - 2013-12-05 9:39 AM 30 days, 6 days on 1 day off and I am covering all the feed. At the end of the month we'll sit down and discuss if the horse needs more time or is ready to be taken home. Every horse progresses differently. Anytime within the 30 days I encourage the owner to come watch and participate.
We do the same. If we lose time because of the weather we are honest and make it up to the client. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Another thing to consider when taking your horse to the trainer....... The trainer may tell you the horse will be ridden 6 days a week but is that the trainer riding 6 days a week or their interns? I know a Reining/Cutting trainer that will ride a horse 3 days a week and her intern will ride the other 3 days a week. I dont think thats fair because you pay for the trainer's experience. The barrel horse trainer I take my horses to is awesome. I asked her what her interns do for her and she said they get the horses out, warm them up, and then the trainer will jump on the horse for an hour to train. Then her interns will cool down the horse and put them away...... I think thats a legitmate way to use interns. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I will admit that my husband was on the higher end of prices when starting a horse. Those who saw the value in the experience and results- offered to pay more for him to continue riding. It honestly is not worth the little money people want to pay. He always attended clinics at least once a year to master his skills. He not only could train- he could win. Others could win on the horses he trained and they didnt have to be a pro to do so. All that being said- here is how in my mind we charged:
Quality hay, feed, bedding and turn out- with our time to inspect every detail of how much they pooped, how much they ate, bright eyes, soreness then add insurance and electric and water- ect....we valued that at $300 a month just for board ($10/day)
Then the riding or groudwork @ $500 or - $25 hour which was an hour per day- for 5 working days- two days off. That was our guideline. So that equaled the $800 he charged. Sometimes that was 20-30 rides, sometimes it was only 10- and often it was harder to start horses that had been handled improperly. Not all human contact is positive and it can take three times as long to gain their confidence to the point that he could succeed with them. Our customers understood that. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| TurnLane - 2013-12-05 3:16 PM I will admit that my husband was on the higher end of prices when starting a horse. Those who saw the value in the experience and results- offered to pay more for him to continue riding. It honestly is not worth the little money people want to pay. He always attended clinics at least once a year to master his skills. He not only could train- he could win. Others could win on the horses he trained and they didnt have to be a pro to do so. All that being said- here is how in my mind we charged:
Quality hay, feed, bedding and turn out- with our time to inspect every detail of how much they pooped, how much they ate, bright eyes, soreness then add insurance and electric and water- ect....we valued that at $300 a month just for board ($10/day)
Then the riding or groudwork @ $500 or - $25 hour which was an hour per day- for 5 working days- two days off. That was our guideline. So that equaled the $800 he charged. Sometimes that was 20-30 rides, sometimes it was only 10- and often it was harder to start horses that had been handled improperly. Not all human contact is positive and it can take three times as long to gain their confidence to the point that he could succeed with them. Our customers understood that.
I think thats one of the biggest factors! But... it's our job as a trainer to keep the owner informed of progress or in some cases the lack of progress. |
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Location: Down South Mississippi | In my barn I chg on a per month basis. In other words in a four week period a horse will get 22-23 rides on them. They are ridden 5 days a wk with 2 days off. With unbroke colts I consider any initial ground work, ground driving, etc. as "rides." Sometimes we get on them the first day, sometimes not. If the weather or personal reasons get in the way I will hold the horses untill they get their fare 22-23 rides. If that takes 6 wks then thats what we do. Its not all that shocking to me that your colt has only 10 rides in 5 wks if it really needed to be started from scratch, perhaps it was way further behind than you were led to believe, and weather has gotten in the way. Your trainer will prbably make it up at the end. I do know of trainers that will chg per month regardless of how much time is spent in the saddle and I think that is very unfair! |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | Thank you all for your insight. I tend to panic and doubt my decisions when my expectations aren't immediately in line with reality. But I think it will turn out fine. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | From your description of him, I would not be worried about the 10 rides especially if the weather has been off. If the ground is a bit wet and we would still ride older broke horses, a lot of the time you are better safe than sorry keeping a young one unridden. One slip is all it takes to turn a great one into something not so great.
We had one gelding last year that was halter broke, rugged handled since birth etc. The owners said he is so quiet he will only need a couple of weeks. WRONG. That horse had the worst personalty. He just could not cope with being broken in. Hubby ended up taking about 8 or 9 weeks on him he was that mentally fragile even though he did not seem like it prior to breaking him in. We only charged for the ridding and said they could pay us in hay rather than pay extra board. (We are still waiting for that hay mind you.)
The extra time was just what he needed and 3 months later he was quiet and relaxed enough for them to put their 9 yo daughter on as his permanent rider. (Not that I agreed with it at the time but not my horse/kid.)
Moral of the story (lol) so far from what you have said the trainer sounds spot on. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Around here I was lucky to be getting $375/month because i'm a "nobody". I charged per month but constantly kept horses longer at no extra charge if i wasn't hapy with their progress. Most people around here expected dead broke horses at the end of 30-45 days. When they picked up a green horse some were less then impressed. Most colts left doing w/t/l, whoa, back up, trail riding, giving to the bit, and such. just needed more miles and didnt neck rein. I quit training. After having my name bashed around beccause they didnt have a dead broke horse in 20-30 rides i decided until i move its not worth the head ache. I also have a lot of very happy customers. One in partiicular brought me a never touched 15hh 2yr old filly. She went home halter broke with 8 rides on her.
I would DEFINITELY not be happy with 10 rides in 5 weeks if she didnt have to do tons of ground work. |
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![](<a href="http://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z470/alicat0909/?action=view¤t=yellaandcalf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1191.photobu) Heeler Hater
Posts: 3014
Location: Texas | I charge by the week $200-$300 a week depending on what the horse is in for. All horses are guarenteed 6 rides a week. We have an indoor arena so there is never an excusr for not riding one. My clients have all been happy with this system. If they are syort on cash one week I just charge $50 for boarding. They pay for what they can affordand their horses are well taken csre of in the mean time. |
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Regular
Posts: 57
Location: Wishing I was riding | When I took my boy in for a tuneup on his foundation, I paid $300 a montht for the trainer, and $235 for boarding at their facility. He spent 2 months there, but she only charged for a month and a half because she wasn't able to put all 60 rides on him in hat time. I told her exactly what I wanted for him, and she told me about how long it would take, and she was right on the money. She did lots of extra stuff with him. Around here, $400/$500 is about the going rate for a trainer with references. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 685
Location: Arkansas | It irritates the crap out of me when you are paying for 30 days of riding, and you don't even get close to that. I knew a guy who charged people like 700 and month for "30 days of riding" and he wouldn't touch the horse for like a week at a time! He even rode one of my own for a discounted price. The guy was scared of the horse and hardly rode him. We definitely didn't get our monies worth! TERRIBLE!
When I trained colts, I was on the "30 day" schedule, and would guarantee at least 5 days a week of riding/training. I kept up with the weather and rode when I could. I kept logs of the horses progress and called/emailed the owners to give them updates! I always had happy customers, even though the pay was super low!
Now, I probably wouldn't do it again. I hated the risk of getting bucked off everyday (and I was a couple times!) I would much rather have my own and train them from the ground up. Or take in horses already broke, ride and pattern them and sell. But good luck!! I know how you feel, I really want to get into a horse business. But, it takes money to make money... and that I don't have! lol |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Serious question : If you send a horse off with the intent of getting back a horse who is soft, confident, responsive and displays no nonsense and that is what you get, does it really matter if it was produced in 30 rides, or 3? |
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