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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | rodeowithjoker - 2013-12-09 2:01 PM Stingray is really hunting the barrels this week. Sherry is riding her butt off to stay clean. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but she hasn't been having to check Stingray heading to the first barrel.....that little mare is DIALED IN on the 1st barrel.
Christy & Movin are starting to find their groove I think. She was smart to start off somewhat conservatively and make a solid run the first night rather than swinging for the fences in round 1 and risking a confidence-wrecking run. Same type of thing with Shada and her horse....their first couple runs were not so good but the last couple nights they've located the 1st barrel and gotten on track.
Babyflo and Worm are getting settier and settier. Those girls are going to have to their work cut out for them staying clean but if they can get past the barrels they are probably going to win quite a bit of money because both horses are really firing.
I agree with you Andy about Sydni & her horse change. Not sure why but she & Clancy aren't really nailing the 1st barrel which is causing problems the rest of the way. If I were her and thought I could safely run Twisted Sister again, I'd be back on the mare at least a night or two. However, having ridden a horse with a serious gate issue, I won't second guess her decision too much. No one knows the horse better than the rider so I'm sure she has good reasons to be staying on Clancy and they'll get the 1st figured out soon.
I thought Brittany did a great job riding Tommy the 1st night, just some bad luck with trying to set the barrel up the next night. Can't say as I blame her for getting on Teddy though. They looked really good last night. She seems to be quite the jockey.
Hopefully Jean can get in the money....Zan looks like a neat horse - just super super solid - and she is riding him very well. It would make me very nervous to go to the NFR with only one horse so my fingers are crossed that nothing happens to him during the week.
Did anyone else notice Twisted Sister in the alley I think it was Saturday night? They led her up saddled and bridled behind Clancy. So I'm not wondering if she had both horses ready and was going to attempt to run Sister again but she acted up so she jumped back on Clancy??? That was just an observation I had and was wondering if that was possibly what happened. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
        Location: MD | Just Bring It - 2013-12-09 2:10 PM
rodeowithjoker - 2013-12-09 2:01 PM Stingray is really hunting the barrels this week. Sherry is riding her butt off to stay clean. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but she hasn't been having to check Stingray heading to the first barrel.....that little mare is DIALED IN on the 1st barrel.
Christy & Movin are starting to find their groove I think. She was smart to start off somewhat conservatively and make a solid run the first night rather than swinging for the fences in round 1 and risking a confidence-wrecking run. Same type of thing with Shada and her horse....their first couple runs were not so good but the last couple nights they've located the 1st barrel and gotten on track.
Babyflo and Worm are getting settier and settier. Those girls are going to have to their work cut out for them staying clean but if they can get past the barrels they are probably going to win quite a bit of money because both horses are really firing.
I agree with you Andy about Sydni & her horse change. Not sure why but she & Clancy aren't really nailing the 1st barrel which is causing problems the rest of the way. If I were her and thought I could safely run Twisted Sister again, I'd be back on the mare at least a night or two. However, having ridden a horse with a serious gate issue, I won't second guess her decision too much. No one knows the horse better than the rider so I'm sure she has good reasons to be staying on Clancy and they'll get the 1st figured out soon.
I thought Brittany did a great job riding Tommy the 1st night, just some bad luck with trying to set the barrel up the next night. Β Can't say as I blame her for getting on Teddy though. They looked really good last night. She seems to be quite the jockey.
Hopefully Jean can get in the money....Zan looks like a neat horse - just super super solid - and she is riding him very well. It would make me very nervous to go to the NFR with only one horse so my fingers are crossed that nothing happens to him during the week.
Did anyone else notice Twisted Sister in the alley I think it was Saturday night? They led her up saddled and bridled behind Clancy. So I'm not wondering if she had both horses ready and was going to attempt to run Sister again but she acted up so she jumped back on Clancy??? That was just an observation I had and was wondering if that was possibly what happened.Β
I was actually thinking that maybe they were doing some alley schooling, in hopes of having her settled enough to use in later rounds. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
      Location: North Dakota | Just Bring It - 2013-12-09 2:10 PM rodeowithjoker - 2013-12-09 2:01 PM Stingray is really hunting the barrels this week. Sherry is riding her butt off to stay clean. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but she hasn't been having to check Stingray heading to the first barrel.....that little mare is DIALED IN on the 1st barrel.
Christy & Movin are starting to find their groove I think. She was smart to start off somewhat conservatively and make a solid run the first night rather than swinging for the fences in round 1 and risking a confidence-wrecking run. Same type of thing with Shada and her horse....their first couple runs were not so good but the last couple nights they've located the 1st barrel and gotten on track.
Babyflo and Worm are getting settier and settier. Those girls are going to have to their work cut out for them staying clean but if they can get past the barrels they are probably going to win quite a bit of money because both horses are really firing.
I agree with you Andy about Sydni & her horse change. Not sure why but she & Clancy aren't really nailing the 1st barrel which is causing problems the rest of the way. If I were her and thought I could safely run Twisted Sister again, I'd be back on the mare at least a night or two. However, having ridden a horse with a serious gate issue, I won't second guess her decision too much. No one knows the horse better than the rider so I'm sure she has good reasons to be staying on Clancy and they'll get the 1st figured out soon.
I thought Brittany did a great job riding Tommy the 1st night, just some bad luck with trying to set the barrel up the next night. Can't say as I blame her for getting on Teddy though. They looked really good last night. She seems to be quite the jockey.
Hopefully Jean can get in the money....Zan looks like a neat horse - just super super solid - and she is riding him very well. It would make me very nervous to go to the NFR with only one horse so my fingers are crossed that nothing happens to him during the week. Did anyone else notice Twisted Sister in the alley I think it was Saturday night? They led her up saddled and bridled behind Clancy. So I'm not wondering if she had both horses ready and was going to attempt to run Sister again but she acted up so she jumped back on Clancy??? That was just an observation I had and was wondering if that was possibly what happened.
I saw that too!! Wondered the same thing.
I've been slow mo'ing the runs and did anyone notice that ever so slight pull on the backside with Sherry Cervi and how quick her horse is to snap back? Talk about impeccable timing!!
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Cat Collector
Posts: 1430
     
| WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2013-12-09 1:16 PM
Just Bring It - 2013-12-09 2:10 PM rodeowithjoker - 2013-12-09 2:01 PM Stingray is really hunting the barrels this week. Sherry is riding her butt off to stay clean. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but she hasn't been having to check Stingray heading to the first barrel.....that little mare is DIALED IN on the 1st barrel.
Christy & Movin are starting to find their groove I think. She was smart to start off somewhat conservatively and make a solid run the first night rather than swinging for the fences in round 1 and risking a confidence-wrecking run. Same type of thing with Shada and her horse....their first couple runs were not so good but the last couple nights they've located the 1st barrel and gotten on track.
Babyflo and Worm are getting settier and settier. Those girls are going to have to their work cut out for them staying clean but if they can get past the barrels they are probably going to win quite a bit of money because both horses are really firing.
I agree with you Andy about Sydni & her horse change. Not sure why but she & Clancy aren't really nailing the 1st barrel which is causing problems the rest of the way. If I were her and thought I could safely run Twisted Sister again, I'd be back on the mare at least a night or two. However, having ridden a horse with a serious gate issue, I won't second guess her decision too much. No one knows the horse better than the rider so I'm sure she has good reasons to be staying on Clancy and they'll get the 1st figured out soon.
I thought Brittany did a great job riding Tommy the 1st night, just some bad luck with trying to set the barrel up the next night. Β Can't say as I blame her for getting on Teddy though. They looked really good last night. She seems to be quite the jockey.
Hopefully Jean can get in the money....Zan looks like a neat horse - just super super solid - and she is riding him very well. It would make me very nervous to go to the NFR with only one horse so my fingers are crossed that nothing happens to him during the week. Did anyone else notice Twisted Sister in the alley I think it was Saturday night? They led her up saddled and bridled behind Clancy. So I'm not wondering if she had both horses ready and was going to attempt to run Sister again but she acted up so she jumped back on Clancy??? That was just an observation I had and was wondering if that was possibly what happened.Β
Β I saw that too!! Wondered the same thing.
I've been slow mo'ing the runs and did anyone notice that ever so slight pull on the backside with Sherry Cervi and how quick her horse is to snap back? Talk about impeccable timing!!
Β
I noticed that as well, I have to say Taylors horse just calmly walks up that ally,,, love Bo! |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Did Latte get stuck in the dirt at the 3rd last night that threw Mary up on his neck? I couldn't tell what happened there when they tipped but that's what it looked like from the view I had? I think it was Christy that said the ground was a little sticky in spots so wondered if that's what happened. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
   Location: Kansas and loving it | BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-09 1:42 PM
hlynn - 2013-12-09 1:30 PM
I've seen still frames of Fallon's runs where she's knocked the third. Last night, she was holding her off with all of her might, & Flo still dropped that shoulder.
Do you think it's a bad habit she's picked up? Or more of a rider not doing EVERYTHING they can to keep her up (driving up, using two hands, using more leg, etc)? Do you think she would be having the same issue with a shanked bit?
These are questions I've been having about what's going on. I know she's switching to Nefertiti tonight.
BabyFlo is so much fun to watch too. I hate that she keeps having issues with that third. Her first barrel keeps getting better & better.
I am nowhere near as accomplished as Andy or have his eye, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have been thinking all week on how he explained it that Fallon doesn't have much of a handle to work with.
Fallon has mentioned over and over that BabyFlo is her prodigy, that within one year of breaking her she finished 16th in the world, now a year later she is at the NFR. She moved BabyFlo's training along at warp speed, and I see potential for holes in her fundamentals. Fallon may be holding her with all her might, picking her up, using leg, but BabyFlo just isn't as soft and responsive as others running in the T&M.
I believe that during her initial training of babyflo is when Fallon had her near paralysis accident. I think she broke her neck about the same way as Christopher Reeve. I think she also suffered some facial trauma. Maybe 4 yrs ago? |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
 
| if i rember right she is lucky to be alive and ok i think she broke c1 c2
chris reeve broke c1 c2 about 14 15 yrs ago die a few yrs back
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
   
| CYA Ranch - 2013-12-09 12:19 PM
Did Latte get stuck in the dirt at the 3rd last night that threw Mary up on his neck?Β I couldn't tell what happened there when they tipped but that's what it looked like from the view I had? I think it was Christy that said the ground was a little sticky in spots so wondered if that's what happened. Β Β
It looked like he just flat cheated her. Did you notice she had two hands on the reins when he went to turn? Looks like she tried to ride him up in there farther and he just faded. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
    Location: Deep South | rockette - 2013-12-09 2:22 PM
BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-09 1:42 PM
hlynn - 2013-12-09 1:30 PM
I've seen still frames of Fallon's runs where she's knocked the third. Last night, she was holding her off with all of her might, & Flo still dropped that shoulder.
Do you think it's a bad habit she's picked up? Or more of a rider not doing EVERYTHING they can to keep her up (driving up, using two hands, using more leg, etc)? Do you think she would be having the same issue with a shanked bit?
These are questions I've been having about what's going on. I know she's switching to Nefertiti tonight.
BabyFlo is so much fun to watch too. I hate that she keeps having issues with that third. Her first barrel keeps getting better & better.
I am nowhere near as accomplished as Andy or have his eye, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have been thinking all week on how he explained it that Fallon doesn't have much of a handle to work with.
Fallon has mentioned over and over that BabyFlo is her prodigy, that within one year of breaking her she finished 16th in the world, now a year later she is at the NFR. She moved BabyFlo's training along at warp speed, and I see potential for holes in her fundamentals. Fallon may be holding her with all her might, picking her up, using leg, but BabyFlo just isn't as soft and responsive as others running in the T&M.
I believe that during her initial training of babyflo is when Fallon had her near paralysis accident. I think she broke her neck about the same way as Christopher Reeve. I think she also suffered some facial trauma. Maybe 4 yrs ago?
Fallon broke her neck in 09, and I agree that she's blessed to even be alive, much less competing at this level. She didn't start BabyFlo until 2011. http://lasvegasnfr.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/the-return-of-fallon-ta... |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
   Location: North Dakota | WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2013-12-09 2:16 PM Just Bring It - 2013-12-09 2:10 PM rodeowithjoker - 2013-12-09 2:01 PM Stingray is really hunting the barrels this week. Sherry is riding her butt off to stay clean. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but she hasn't been having to check Stingray heading to the first barrel.....that little mare is DIALED IN on the 1st barrel.
Christy & Movin are starting to find their groove I think. She was smart to start off somewhat conservatively and make a solid run the first night rather than swinging for the fences in round 1 and risking a confidence-wrecking run. Same type of thing with Shada and her horse....their first couple runs were not so good but the last couple nights they've located the 1st barrel and gotten on track.
Babyflo and Worm are getting settier and settier. Those girls are going to have to their work cut out for them staying clean but if they can get past the barrels they are probably going to win quite a bit of money because both horses are really firing.
I agree with you Andy about Sydni & her horse change. Not sure why but she & Clancy aren't really nailing the 1st barrel which is causing problems the rest of the way. If I were her and thought I could safely run Twisted Sister again, I'd be back on the mare at least a night or two. However, having ridden a horse with a serious gate issue, I won't second guess her decision too much. No one knows the horse better than the rider so I'm sure she has good reasons to be staying on Clancy and they'll get the 1st figured out soon.
I thought Brittany did a great job riding Tommy the 1st night, just some bad luck with trying to set the barrel up the next night. Can't say as I blame her for getting on Teddy though. They looked really good last night. She seems to be quite the jockey.
Hopefully Jean can get in the money....Zan looks like a neat horse - just super super solid - and she is riding him very well. It would make me very nervous to go to the NFR with only one horse so my fingers are crossed that nothing happens to him during the week. Did anyone else notice Twisted Sister in the alley I think it was Saturday night? They led her up saddled and bridled behind Clancy. So I'm not wondering if she had both horses ready and was going to attempt to run Sister again but she acted up so she jumped back on Clancy??? That was just an observation I had and was wondering if that was possibly what happened. I saw that too!! Wondered the same thing.
I've been slow mo'ing the runs and did anyone notice that ever so slight pull on the backside with Sherry Cervi and how quick her horse is to snap back? Talk about impeccable timing!!
Agreed, almost like Sherry has a magical rubber band that she pulls! Amazing!
I've wondered all week if Mary is feeling OK, just seems a little less "firery" (is that a word?? LOL) than last year.
Great post, thanks I love it when people that appear to be "in the know" come on and chat, or clear things up! |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
           Location: Kansas | I really enjoyed reading this thread!!!   |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | 3 To Go - 2013-12-09 2:30 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-09 12:19 PM Did Latte get stuck in the dirt at the 3rd last night that threw Mary up on his neck? I couldn't tell what happened there when they tipped but that's what it looked like from the view I had? I think it was Christy that said the ground was a little sticky in spots so wondered if that's what happened. It looked like he just flat cheated her. Did you notice she had two hands on the reins when he went to turn? Looks like she tried to ride him up in there farther and he just faded.
My daughter and I thought she was 2 handed also. Your probably right and he was cheating the turn. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
       Location: South Central Florida | Oh My Gosh, I LOVE THIS THREAD. Yes I noticed all that about Stingray. I do not know how Sherry got by the 1st on what I think was the 2nd night. Stingray lookedlike she set a step early and I have no idea how Sherry pushed her one more stride with her but in the ground. It was beautiful.
I also think Kaley and Cowboy are going to keep coming on. The first run did not even look like him, but gitters may have gotten to either one of them. He got hung up on the third, but he has looked like his normal self every run since.
So do the fop 4 ever start safety up? I know last year several hit barrels on the 8th and 9th runs.....UGH, I'm guessing you go with your game plan and make your run but love other opinions. |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
       Location: Kansas | I did notice Twisted Sister in the alley the one night - made me wonder if Sydni saddled both of them and planned on riding Twisted Sister if she was acting decent then stayed on Clancy when the mare wasn't behaving as well as she wanted. Or it could be just walking her through there another night to get her relaxed for later in the NFR. That mare can sure shut the clock off even with mistakes. I'd sure want to be able to run her more than just once out there IF I could do it without getting hurt or hurting someone else in the alley. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
       Location: South Central Florida | WrapSnap - 2013-12-09 2:13 PM Okay y'all! Let's do this the right way. This might actually be beneficial to a few of us. Starting at the top and working my way down the list, I'll give my observations, input, etc... Sherry- Obviously, Sherry is always super correct. I'll bet we've all noted that she's having to be more aggressive and stay two handed longer than normal in order to keep Stingray square coming into the pockets. Boy, she sure is doing a great job! Mary- It has seemed to me that while Mary has a wonderful style, the couple of barrels that have come down for her seem to have happened as a result of Mary trying to ride "away" from the barrel, rather than hustle through the turn and continuing to go passed them. Michelle- Michelle, as a first time qualifier and on a horse who is relatively young and unseasoned made a very wise decision in the first go and made a super smooth, correct run that allowed both she and Slick a ton of confidence, which they have been building on run by run. Kaley- I was a bit concerned after the First round for Kaley. Things seem to have righted themselves in the left turns however. The one thing that I'm concerned about is that lean at the 2nd barrel that she's been displaying this week. Thankfully, it hasn't caught with her.... yet. Taylor- What a fun and exciting team this is! I think the couple of simple mistakes that caught her in the first two rounds can be attributed to "jitters" more than anything. She seems to be riding aggressively, sitting square and keeping her focus now. Christy- I feel for Christy. I think we all expected Movin' to maybe take more of a shine to this pen than she has. Although, I'm not really sure why. I fell in love with this mare watching her dominate on BIG patterns and this is anything but. I feel like Christy has made some very wise decisions and is setting herself and Movin up for some great runs to be had in the T&M over the years to come. Fallon- BabyFlo is a super tricky mare to run. She also doesn't have a whole lot of handle to work with. I'd love to see Fallon get two handed leaving the 2nd barrel and really drive for a spot deeper down the pen, like maybe the heeling box! Sabrina- I feel like Sabrina has been dealing with it all rather well. If she could get a finish on the first barrel, thus a better approach/entry to the 2nd, she'd be super solid in the rounds. Brittany- I was super glad to see Britt get on Teddy. I think from here on out, we'll see the sorts of runs that we did from this team last night. Lisa- Louie seemed to me to be lacking his trademark fluidity through his body in the turns in the first couple of rounds. He seems to be softening up now. As always, Lisa has given him a great ride. This team almost always nail their patterns and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Sydni- I don't blame Syd for switching to Clancy, but I'd for sure like to see her get back on the mare. Not sure when, or why Clancy was switched to the left, but it appears to me as though he keeps wanting to fade back over to the left barrel after turning his second, which is really eroding his times. Jane- I like the pairing of Jane and Blackie. They seem to have sorted out the resistance they were fighting at the third barrel in the first couple of rounds. I think they've been laying down consistent runs and foresee them doing well in the average. Trula- I feel like Worm just keeps planting that inside hind harder and harder with each go. Trula's going to need to do some work at free-ing that sucker up if she plans to get back into the game. Shada- Dial It seems to be finding his groove inside the T&M. Now that he knows where the first barrel is, I think we'll continue to see runs like they had last night. He's never been the most shapey, or round sort and his stiffer style might be causing him to bounce out of the ground a bit, thus slowing their times, but I applaud the steady progress that they have been making. Jean- Zan is working well, but his straighter approach to the barrels makes maneuvering through the pattern at the T&M even more difficult. I think Jean has done a commendable job of trying to make the best of it.
Holy Cow, I think I love you :) |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
     Location: North Dakota | I love watching Sherry and Stingray in her turns! If you watch her hands she is constantly asking for little moves and Stingray is always right on! It is like Sherry knows exactly where and when to ask for just maybe one more move, little push, step, etc. and Stingray is right on cue and doesn't argue. It is amazing how fast she can think and react to every little step Stingray takes and how sensitive Stingray is to those little cues. You can really tell she is working hard to keep all 3 up this year! |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
        Location: MD | CYA Ranch - 2013-12-09 3:00 PM
3 To Go - 2013-12-09 2:30 PM CYA Ranch - 2013-12-09 12:19 PM Did Latte get stuck in the dirt at the 3rd last night that threw Mary up on his neck?Β I couldn't tell what happened there when they tipped but that's what it looked like from the view I had? I think it was Christy that said the ground was a little sticky in spots so wondered if that's what happened. Β Β It looked like he just flat cheated her. Did you notice she had two hands on the reins when he went to turn? Looks like she tried to ride him up in there farther and he just faded.
My daughter and I thought she was 2 handed also.Β Your probably right and he was cheating the turn. Β
This is where I felt like she kind of tried to "get by" rather than really drive from the backside of the 2nd all the way through the backside of the third. It's super easy to start "picking one off" and fumbling your hands a bit when they're cutting you off and that's exactly what I saw happen. She had 2 hands, he just dropped right out from under her and turned a stride too soon. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
    Location: Deep South | Just Bring It - 2013-12-09 3:07 PM
I love watching Sherry and Stingray in her turns! If you watch her hands she is constantly asking for little moves and Stingray is always right on! It is like Sherry knows exactly where and when to ask for just maybe one more move, little push, step, etc. and Stingray is right on cue and doesn't argue. It is amazing how fast she can think and react to every little step Stingray takes and how sensitive Stingray is to those little cues. You can really tell she is working hard to keep all 3 up this year!
This is why I love sherry! Her horses are so amazingly responsive and her hands are just astonishing. Each cue is DEAD on. |
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 Vodka for Lunch
     Location: Lala Land | Just Bring It - 2013-12-09 2:10 PM rodeowithjoker - 2013-12-09 2:01 PM Stingray is really hunting the barrels this week. Sherry is riding her butt off to stay clean. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but she hasn't been having to check Stingray heading to the first barrel.....that little mare is DIALED IN on the 1st barrel.
Christy & Movin are starting to find their groove I think. She was smart to start off somewhat conservatively and make a solid run the first night rather than swinging for the fences in round 1 and risking a confidence-wrecking run. Same type of thing with Shada and her horse....their first couple runs were not so good but the last couple nights they've located the 1st barrel and gotten on track.
Babyflo and Worm are getting settier and settier. Those girls are going to have to their work cut out for them staying clean but if they can get past the barrels they are probably going to win quite a bit of money because both horses are really firing.
I agree with you Andy about Sydni & her horse change. Not sure why but she & Clancy aren't really nailing the 1st barrel which is causing problems the rest of the way. If I were her and thought I could safely run Twisted Sister again, I'd be back on the mare at least a night or two. However, having ridden a horse with a serious gate issue, I won't second guess her decision too much. No one knows the horse better than the rider so I'm sure she has good reasons to be staying on Clancy and they'll get the 1st figured out soon.
I thought Brittany did a great job riding Tommy the 1st night, just some bad luck with trying to set the barrel up the next night. Can't say as I blame her for getting on Teddy though. They looked really good last night. She seems to be quite the jockey.
Hopefully Jean can get in the money....Zan looks like a neat horse - just super super solid - and she is riding him very well. It would make me very nervous to go to the NFR with only one horse so my fingers are crossed that nothing happens to him during the week. Did anyone else notice Twisted Sister in the alley I think it was Saturday night? They led her up saddled and bridled behind Clancy. So I'm not wondering if she had both horses ready and was going to attempt to run Sister again but she acted up so she jumped back on Clancy??? That was just an observation I had and was wondering if that was possibly what happened.
I saw that too....and thought how annoyed I would have been to be standing behind that circus and having to wait for someone to get her out of the way so I could make my run. It didn't seem to phase Shada, so maybe it wasn't that bad in reality and I'm definetly cranky from loss of sleep. lol |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
          Location: 31 lengths farms | Sorry, quoted the wrong reply...
Edited by run n rate 2013-12-09 3:28 PM
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