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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
 
Location: The South | Thank you Annemarea! I think it's so crazy that a farrier can't tell if a horse is growing heel. I want to send a letter to the school they went to, they need to re-work their curriculum!
I remember your thread about your horse and all of the work you put into bringing him along. I didn't really know what I was looking at so I got overwhelmed, but I was happy for you!
Thank you for giving me the name of his book, I realized that I'm a dork and they showed a bunch of 'similar' books when I searched, and I didn't realize they weren't from that author. I'm recovering from a brain injury and I have frequent brain farts like this, it's so frustrating!
Thank you for helping me guys!  |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
 
Location: Iowa, LA | Lindsay-
Here is a great example. Top photo shows how long and low my horse's heel was when shod with first farrier. Bottom photo shows his trim a month ago. Notice the vertical line I drew that shows how far forward his heel was and just where it aligned with his bones! Then I put a line showing how LONG his heel was. His heel has now pulled BACK and therefore SHORTENED. And of course his toe has, as well. One thing to remember, the heel follows the toe.... that's an easy way to remember that if you have a long toe that heel will be long, too, because it can only grow the direction the whole foot is going- forward. I hope I broke that down so that you can understand. So, never mistake a low heel as being short just because it is low to the ground. If you picked that foot up and looked at it from the bottom, you would see the end of the heel and where it actually ends.
Farrier lady can probably explain it better than I can since she's got the years of experience. I hope I didn't say anything incorrectly! LOL
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Oh. My. Gosh. What a difference! Thank you so much for sharing those pictures, that is absolutely amazing!!! You give me hope that I can get this all straightened out  |
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  Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | annamarea you explained it very well and the photos are a great bonus! |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I do want to add that we are NOT done working on his feet! We still have to back up that toe/heel some more, so his bottom photo is not where we want him, even though it is a huge improvement. The important thing is that he is SOUND and no longer limping ! |
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 The Rose of Rodeo...
Posts: 2560
Location: Where we still run to look when the siren goes by. | annemarea - 2013-12-16 5:29 PM I do want to add that we are NOT done working on his feet! We still have to back up that toe/heel some more, so his bottom photo is not where we want him, even though it is a huge improvement. The important thing is that he is SOUND and no longer limping !
Wow! How long did it take you to get this far? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Rodeo Rose - 2013-12-16 6:55 PM annemarea - 2013-12-16 5:29 PM I do want to add that we are NOT done working on his feet! We still have to back up that toe/heel some more, so his bottom photo is not where we want him, even though it is a huge improvement. The important thing is that he is SOUND and no longer limping !
I had a second farrier work on him for another year after that photo was taken. Initially, his feet improved, yet he was still on/off lame. After 1 1/2 years his feet were almost back to how the previous farrier had them. He's been barefoot for just over a year. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward.
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Barnmom - 2013-12-17 8:43 AM Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward.
Great example! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: Some where between there and here. | Just my 2 cents. There are some issues with the feet but its nothing that can't be corrected. I have certainly seen worse feet. One question that should be asked( hope I did not miss this information) is how long has it been since the shoes were reset. Also, we can look at the pictures of other horses feet for comparison all day long but ultimately each horse is different . I also agree that it's better to have a complete look at the feet ( bottom, sides and without shoes) before we judge harshly.
** I do not reply to post much but in this case I thought I would stir the pot a little. How many of you who have made comments about these feet have ever nailed a shoe on. I am not defending the work because there are issues that could be improved ( shoe placement/fit, nail placement overall hoof angle and toe length), I am just stating the fact that most people who have no experiance other than reading a book are usually the first people to throw a stone. ** As a farrier of 22 + years I believe in good, positive critique . I just want the critique I receive to come from someone I can learn from by the example they set/show through their own work. All farriers need continuing education and even though it is not par for the course, all farriers should be willing to entertain questions from their clients. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| puzzle - 2013-12-17 10:16 AM
Just my 2 cents. There are some issues with the feet but its nothing that can't be corrected. I have certainly seen worse feet. One question that should be asked( hope I did not miss this information) is how long has it been since the shoes were reset. Also, we can look at the pictures of other horses feet for comparison all day long but ultimately each horse is different . I also agree that it's better to have a complete look at the feet ( bottom, sides and without shoes) before we judge harshly.
** I do not reply to post much but in this case I thought I would stir the pot a little. How many of you who have made comments about these feet have ever nailed a shoe on. I am not defending the work because there are issues that could be improved ( shoe placement/fit, nail placement overall hoof angle and toe length), I am just stating the fact that most people who have no experiance other than reading a book are usually the first people to throw a stone. ** As a farrier of 22 + years I believe in good, positive critique . I just want the critique I receive to come from someone I can learn from by the example they set/show through their own work. All farriers need continuing education and even though it is not par for the course, all farriers should be willing to entertain questions from their clients.
I haven't posted on this picture, but I do find second comment a bit rude. I have never nailed a shoe on, probably could, but I pay someone else to do that.
I have never went to farrier school, but someone can call themselves a farrier after a 2 day course.
Just because someone has years of experience does not make them any more superior then the owner who has spent countless hours and money with a vet and experienced farrier to fix a horse's feet that a farrier with over 40 years wrecked.
I find your comment condescending that since I have not nailed a shoe on, my experience is invalid |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | puzzle - 2013-12-17 9:16 AM Just my 2 cents. There are some issues with the feet but its nothing that can't be corrected. I have certainly seen worse feet. One question that should be asked( hope I did not miss this information) is how long has it been since the shoes were reset. Also, we can look at the pictures of other horses feet for comparison all day long but ultimately each horse is different . I also agree that it's better to have a complete look at the feet ( bottom, sides and without shoes) before we judge harshly. ** I do not reply to post much but in this case I thought I would stir the pot a little. How many of you who have made comments about these feet have ever nailed a shoe on. I am not defending the work because there are issues that could be improved ( shoe placement/fit, nail placement overall hoof angle and toe length), I am just stating the fact that most people who have no experiance other than reading a book are usually the first people to throw a stone. ** As a farrier of 22 + years I believe in good, positive critique . I just want the critique I receive to come from someone I can learn from by the example they set/show through their own work. All farriers need continuing education and even though it is not par for the course, all farriers should be willing to entertain questions from their clients.
In the first post it says the shoes had just been put on, as in a couple day old shoe job.
I'll also admit that on a LOT of the trimming/shoeing threads I cringe at the advice given by a lot of people. I can only speak for myself but I've been trimming for over 10 years. There's 14 in my own barn & quite a few others that I trim for customers (I know that's not a lot compared to someone who makes a living at it) but everybody is sound, walking on correct, balanced & healthy feet. I can nail a shoe on if I have to but prefer not to. Have a great vet who is also a farrier who I use in the case of needing shoes on one. |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | Yes, there is a lot of factor that play with why the hoof get in this poor condition. It all depends on the horse. I would also consider the hoof conformation. This is what was inherited and you will need to find what is needed to help. I would diffenitly work the the toe and heel back under the leg. I would also do bar wedge pads that would relief the tendons too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: Some where between there and here. | As I said, STIR THE POT. I was not pointing fingers at any one person but only making a valid point so please unruffle your feathers. I for one am the first to admit there are way to many poorly qualified individuals who call themselves a farrier. By far there are more bad apples in the barrel than good. Very seldom do farriers receive any praise. Usually if we get feed back it is negative. I agree that is is very important that each horse owner be educated . Through education, poorly qualified farriers can be held accountable. As far as the horse's feet, give your farrier the courtesy of discussing your concerns with him first. He may suprise you and listen no matter how long he has been shoeing or how old he is. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | Barnmom - 2013-12-17 8:43 AM Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward.
Thank you Barnmom! The pictures help SO much. I never knew the heel could grow forward like that. I bet Farrierlady is right and that's probably what my horse's heels look like when he's due for a shoeing. This is all so informative, thank you all. I can't wait for my books and DVDs to get here so I can start educating myself. I hope I can turn out to be a success story like Annemarea! For my horse's sake I hope I can grasp all of the information. |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | LindsayJordan84 - 2013-12-17 12:54 PM Barnmom - 2013-12-17 8:43 AM Here is a pic from the side and also from the bottom of the foot so you can see how long this horses heels are even though it looks like he has no heel when his foot is on the ground. Just wanted to add this is not how I keep my horses feet, he came this way and we are working on him. You can also see how the heel follows the toe and the whole foot pushes forward. Thank you Barnmom! The pictures help SO much. I never knew the heel could grow forward like that. I bet Farrierlady is right and that's probably what my horse's heels look like when he's due for a shoeing. This is all so informative, thank you all. I can't wait for my books and DVDs to get here so I can start educating myself. I hope I can turn out to be a success story like Annemarea! For my horse's sake I hope I can grasp all of the information.
If you ever have any questions while trying to learn and understand terms, etc. please don't hesitate to ask me. I am happy to help anyone that asks. I even accept x-rays and photos to my email to look at for you. |
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Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | Sarajean...since I have no idea how to use the tools like you do....can you please mark up that photo barnmom put up to show where the heels should be and all the dead sole, etc. it is a GREAT example of what most feet look like and people think their horse has no heal, when in reality it grows forward. Show the skinny frog, bars, etc.
Thanks for posting the photos barnmom! |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Farrierlady - 2013-12-17 12:14 PM Sarajean...since I have no idea how to use the tools like you do....can you please mark up that photo barnmom put up to show where the heels should be and all the dead sole, etc. it is a GREAT example of what most feet look like and people think their horse has no heal, when in reality it grows forward. Show the skinny frog, bars, etc.
Thanks for posting the photos barnmom! You're so right, they show exactly what is "normal" to a lot of people. No laughing at my photoshop drawing abilities! On the side view I drew in lines roughly where I would eventually want to see the feet on this horse. On the sole view I did a white line where the heels should be brought back to, red is the crushed heel & bars that need to be trimmed back, and blue is where I'd trim the toe back to & bevel it. Added pics of healthy feet for easy comparing.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | That is amazing. I can't believe some farriers are telling us that our horses aren't growing heel when in reality their heels are too long.
I have been frustrated with this whole process for a while, but I just recently got the 'push' I needed to motivate me to learn about this on my own. How are we supposed to make sure our horse's feet are right if we don't know the fundamentals ourselves?
Thank you all for helping. Y'all are so awesome, I am so grateful!  |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| There are a lot of variables, my gelding who was having rear end lamness when i carried him to a lamness vet the first thing out of his mouth that i have a good farrier and when we did a thermo scan we found that we had some heel pain due to the fact that the inside of his feet have a different angle than out side so he has to be set up a couple of degrees higher a 55 or 56 degrees he does grow good heel so at the end of six weeks he is still 55 or 56. i have had people ask me why he is so high. But he is confortable there, also his feet where not taken care of when her was a baby. |
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