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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
     
Location: Broxton, Ga | Here is a article I found with some details to what happened..............
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525201/Girl-13-declared-brain-dead-having-tonsils-removed-taken-life-support.html |
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Location: OK | Opening a big can of worms here. WHO is paying the bills here??? Parents or Welfare. |
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Veteran
Posts: 297
| Yes miracles do happen because happen with my cousin.. 5 dr said he was brain dead with no blood flow and 2months later woke up... They do happen.. But after being a hospice aide for awhile I don't see harm in leaving the girl on life support for a month or two if it helps the family deal with it.. They are in denial and maybe that month or two they will realize there is no hope.. I have not read the story to hear how long she has already been on life support but you have to remember what if this was your loved one.. And for the bills.. I'm guessing hospital since she was in surgery. They will probably be giving that family a good bit of money.. |
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 Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | I can't say how I feel one way or another. All I can say is as a mom reading that this sweet little girl said something bad was going to happen to her just puts a huge knot in my stomach. I cannot fathom what her parents are going through. I heard of a similar case of a young boy back a few months ago. It just makes my paranoid self even more of a whack job. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Once you are declared brain dead, using accepted criteria, by qualified personnel, you are dead....period. One problem is that people don't understand the difference between coma, a vegatative state, versus brain dead. Every time this subject comes up in a variety of settings/cirlces, invariably someone comes up with a personal experience where they ran in a triathalon or danced or dined with someone who was once "declared" brain dead. I always ask, "Who said he was brain dead?" Sometimes it's a loose term used by a sloppy doctor, or nurse, or someone else. It's like a rumor. Sometimes it's a misinterpretation or miscommunication where the words "coma" and "brain dead" are loosely interchanged. They aren't the same. Some people in a coma can partially recover with just enough brainstem function to be able to breathe on their own. Brain dead people cannot survive without artificial support...ie a respirator.
Those who do partially recover are said to be in a vegatative state, and after a few months are declared to be in a "persistent vegatative state" which is different than coma. Brain death, however, is none of these. Once strict critera are met and two independent examiners have declared brain death, the patient is dead....legally. Brain dead people cannot be kept on life support indefinitely. No brain dead person can live without a respirator. Eventually sepsis or something else intevenes and the heart stops beating anyway, usually within no more than a few weeks.
This is a sad case of miscommunication and a lack of understanding.
I hope the family has been approached about the potential of organ donation, so this little girl's final act is one in which she can save the lives of others. That can be an invaluable source of consolation and comfort to the grieving family.....in a certain sense, part of her is still living on, and her spirit can look down with pride while she is with her Lord and Savior. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | Yes, miracles do happen... But they are few and far between. As a respiratory therapist I have had to participate in taking people office support more times than I care to. There are multiple test that are done to determine if a person is brain dead. The bottom line is if the person can survive without life support or not. It is a horrible thing that has happened to this girl, but the fact is that she can not live without mechanical support. I understand the parents must be going through hell but they need to let her go. It is not doing them nor the little girl any good keeping her alive this way. There is never a good time to lose a loved one, but they need to accept that she is gone and if the good Lord chooses to perform a miracle then After they withdraw support she will somehow survive, if not it is Gods will.
Personally the saddest case I ever was involved with was a 13 yr old girl who had a horse wreck. She was declared brain dead and her parents did a noble thing and made her an organ donor. She went on the save many many lives. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do when I was having to perform some of the tests on her to determine brain death. Her parents had pictures of her and her horse up all over the ICU. It was hard stayin professional knowing this could have been me after some of the horse wrecks I have had. After my rounds were done I went to a quiet area and cried and cried. Anyway I completely digressed from the sitution at hand... Sorry |
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Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-06 7:28 PM
Once you are declared brain dead, using accepted criteria, by qualified personnel, you are dead....period. Â One problem is that people don't understand the difference between coma, a vegatative state, versus brain dead. Â Every time this subject comes up in a variety of settings/cirlces, invariably someone comes up with a personal experience where they ran in a triathalon or danced or dined with someone who was once "declared" brain dead. Â I always ask, "Who said he was brain dead?" Â Sometimes it's a loose term used by a sloppy doctor, or nurse, or someone else. Â It's like a rumor. Â Sometimes it's a misinterpretation or miscommunication where the words "coma" and "brain dead" are loosely interchanged. Â They aren't the same. Â Some people in a coma can partially recover with just enough brainstem function to be able to breathe on their own. Â Brain dead people cannot survive without artificial support...ie a respirator.
Those who do partially recover are said to be in a vegatative state, and after a few months are declared to be in a "persistent vegatative state" which is different than coma. Â Brain death, however, is none of these. Â Once strict critera are met and two independent examiners have declared brain death, the patient is dead....legally. Â Brain dead people cannot be kept on life support indefinitely. Â No brain dead person can live without a respirator. Â Eventually sepsis or something else intevenes and the heart stops beating anyway, usually within no more than a few weeks. Â
This is a sad case of miscommunication and a lack of understanding. Â
I hope the family has been approached about the potential of organ donation, so this little girl's final act is one in which she can save the lives of others. Â That can be an invaluable source of consolation and comfort to the grieving family.....in a certain sense, part of her is still living on, and her spirit can look down with pride while she is with her Lord and Savior.
We must have been typing at the exact same time. You explained this very nicely. I was trying to explain but got off track in a big way. Always great to hear you explanations!
Very tragic situation! |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I love this poem, which speaks to the issue of organ donation:
To Remember Me - I Will Live Forever
by Robert Noel Test, American Poet (1926-1994) The day will come when my body will lie upon a white sheet neatly tucked under four corners of a mattress located in a hospital; busily occupied with the living and the dying. At a certain moment a doctor will determine that my brain has ceased to function and that, for all intents and purposes, my life has stopped.
When that happens, do not attempt to instill artificial life into my body by the use of a machine. And don’t call this my deathbed. Let it be called the bed of life, and let my body be taken from it to help others lead fuller lives. - Give my sight to the man who has never seen a sunrise, a baby’s face or love in the eyes of a woman.
- Give my heart to a person whose own heart has caused nothing but endless days of pain.
- Give my blood to the teenager who was pulled from the wreckage of his car, so that he might live to see his grandchildren play.
- Give my kidneys to the one who depends on a machine to exist from week to week.
- Take my bones, every muscle, every fiber and nerve in my body and find a way to make a crippled child walk. Explore every corner of my brain.
- Take my cells, if necessary, and let them grow so that, someday a speechless boy will shout at the crack of a bat and a deaf girl will hear the sound of rain agianst her window.
- Burn what is left of me and scatter the ashes to the winds to help the flowers grow.
- If you must bury something, let it be my faults, my weakness and all prejudice against my fellow man.
- Give my sins to the devil.
- Give my soul to God.
If, by chance, you wish to remember me, do it with a kind deed or word to someone who needs you. If you do all I have asked, I will live forever. |
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | So sad. I hope the parents can find some peace and let her go.
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I Wanna Go Fast!!
Posts: 12556
| geronabean - 2014-01-06 3:57 PM Not so sure I would trust the same hospital that put them into this situation in the first place.
I would love to know the hospitals story, but I know at this time they are bound by hippa laws. It has been reported that the family fed her a hamburger and encouraged her to talk when the medical staff Saks NO food and NO talking. |
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Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-05 8:28 PM Once you are declared brain dead, using accepted criteria, by qualified personnel, you are dead....period. One problem is that people don't understand the difference between coma, a vegatative state, versus brain dead. Every time this subject comes up in a variety of settings/cirlces, invariably someone comes up with a personal experience where they ran in a triathalon or danced or dined with someone who was once "declared" brain dead. I always ask, "Who said he was brain dead?" Sometimes it's a loose term used by a sloppy doctor, or nurse, or someone else. It's like a rumor. Sometimes it's a misinterpretation or miscommunication where the words "coma" and "brain dead" are loosely interchanged. They aren't the same. Some people in a coma can partially recover with just enough brainstem function to be able to breathe on their own. Brain dead people cannot survive without artificial support...ie a respirator.
Those who do partially recover are said to be in a vegatative state, and after a few months are declared to be in a "persistent vegatative state" which is different than coma. Brain death, however, is none of these. Once strict critera are met and two independent examiners have declared brain death, the patient is dead....legally. Brain dead people cannot be kept on life support indefinitely. No brain dead person can live without a respirator. Eventually sepsis or something else intevenes and the heart stops beating anyway, usually within no more than a few weeks.
This is a sad case of miscommunication and a lack of understanding.
I hope the family has been approached about the potential of organ donation, so this little girl's final act is one in which she can save the lives of others. That can be an invaluable source of consolation and comfort to the grieving family.....in a certain sense, part of her is still living on, and her spirit can look down with pride while she is with her Lord and Savior.
Thank you for the information.................very informative. |
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I Wanna Go Fast!!
Posts: 12556
| Scott, I have a question for you. I read somewhere that since they are basically just keeping her heart beating but her brain is dead that her body will start to slowly decompose and that the involuntary movements they have seen are stages of rigor mortis setting in. Is this true? |
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Ms. Dr. Phil
Location: My happy place | StillRiding - 2014-01-06 7:48 PM Opening a big can of worms here. WHO is paying the bills here??? Parents or Welfare.
Since her mother is a surgical nurse, I would imagine she has insurance. |
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I Wanna Go Fast!!
Posts: 12556
| Palopony - 2014-01-06 7:02 PM StillRiding - 2014-01-06 7:48 PM Opening a big can of worms here. WHO is paying the bills here??? Parents or Welfare. Since her mother is a surgical nurse, I would imagine she has insurance.
Ijust ts read where Jahis grandmother is a surgical urse at another hospital.
Edited by Whiskey_Girl 2014-01-06 9:28 PM
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Ms. Dr. Phil
Location: My happy place | Whiskey_Girl - 2014-01-06 10:13 PM Palopony - 2014-01-06 7:02 PM StillRiding - 2014-01-06 7:48 PM Opening a big can of worms here. WHO is paying the bills here??? Parents or Welfare. Since her mother is a surgical nurse, I would imagine she has insurance. That's the first I've heard that. Where did you see that? That doesn't make sense to me, if she's a nurse why would she go against the medical orders for jaci not to eat or talk? And how would she know that some of the things that were happening were not normal? She questioned the staff if certain things were normal. Ijust ts read where Jahis grandmother is a surgical urse at another hospital.
ETA: You are correct grandma was nurse, sorry read too fast.
'My daughter had actual clots sliding out of her mouth and they gave me a cup and said, "Here, catch them with the cup so we can measure them,"' Winkfield told ABC 7. Chatman, herself a surgical nurse, said nursing staff did not react until she began screaming for help. 'I was the last one to see Jahi,' said Chatman. 'I said, "Somebody help my baby please!" And they came in and starting working on her. The next thing I know, the doctor said, "Oh no, she doesn't have a heart rate anymore."'
Edited by Palopony 2014-01-06 9:58 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Whiskey_Girl - 2014-01-06 8:53 PM Scott, I have a question for you. I read somewhere that since they are basically just keeping her heart beating but her brain is dead that her body will start to slowly decompose and that the involuntary movements they have seen are stages of rigor mortis setting in. Is this true?
No that's not true. As long as her heart is beating, she won't decompose or go into rigor mortis.
Brain dead people eventually suffer circulatory collapse or die from septic shock, unless they are taken off life support. If the ventilator is turned off their hearts stop beating within minutes. They can't breathe on their own. This won't wind up like a Terri Schiavo case. Terri was in a permanent vegatative state, but she wasn't brain dead. She didn't need a vent. |
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Member
Posts: 9
| "Who is paying the bill parents or welfare?" Wow! Why was it necessary for welfare to be mentioned??? Her mother is a nurse, and as a nurse I can inform you that we have great health insurance for ourselves and our families. I would encourage you to read a full story before making a comment like that. |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
| Boxingqueenb - 2014-01-06 10:07 PM
"Who is paying the bill parents or welfare?" Wow! Why was it necessary for welfare to be mentioned??? Her mother is a nurse, and as a nurse I can inform you that we have great health insurance for ourselves and our families. I would encourage you to read a full story before making a comment like that.
Grand mother is a nurse, not the mother |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | why did she go into cardic arrest and what does a hamburger have to do with it ? after surgery they fed her when she shouldnt have solids yet..or before her surgery when she wasnt allowed to eat? do they know why she went into cardiac arrest?
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-06 10:15 PM
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Works Hard For The Money
Posts: 4469
Location: Memphis, TN | For discussion sake I'll flip the coin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/06/texas-pregnant-brain-d...
Saw this on the news this morning. I have a very strong opinion that until they can prove the baby is also brain dead that she should remain on life support. I understand she had said prior that she would not want to be on life support however I doubt she ever imagined that would ever happen with a baby involved. |
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