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Expert
Posts: 1561
  
| Are you guys the best jockeys for all horses?
Ive seen horses clock 2D-3D times with great riders but the same horses are in the 1Ds consistently with a different rider. Sometimes its jockey weight other times its riding style.
I do find a lot of these responses interesting. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
 
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think most decent, healthy, sound quarter horses have the POTENTIAL to be 2D horses, yes. The key words are "most" and "potential". You still have to have a good rider and decent training with sound fundamentals. Those are the big variables. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Are we talking ALL horses in general regardless of breed or bloodlines? Or are we talking more specifically horses bred to run barrels? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I guess when I read this thread as well as others, I am just real lucky and thankful that I have had some great teachers. I've sure learned the hard way. I think a lot of times the real fundamentals of horsemanship are glossed over, both with individual horses as well as the riders themselves. I have even seen a few so-called successful riders who are missing something as far as fundamentals are concerned. Thanks to my teaching, I have developed a pretty good eye....now if I could just translate that into my OWN riding, I'd be set! LOL |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I think it is more realistic to say they could all be 4D at large shows. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| SaraJean - 2014-01-08 1:36 PM
Are we talking ALL horses in general regardless of breed or bloodlines? Or are we talking more specifically horses bred to run barrels?
Im not concerned with bloodlines but im not talking about ponies and minnies either. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 392
Location: CA | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-08 11:34 AM
I think most decent, healthy, sound quarter horses have the POTENTIAL to be 2D horses, yes. The key words are "most" and "potential". You still have to have a good rider and decent training with sound fundamentals. Those are the big variables.Â
If we are talking healthy sound quarter horse type horses i think more horses have 2D potential than riders. But no i dont think the majority of horses have true 2D potential at bigger races. At a race where the fastest time is say a 17.0 on a standard the 2D would be a 17.5 that is still a fast time that takes a ton of skill on both the horse, trainer and jockeys part. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| HotbearLVR - 2014-01-08 1:34 PM
I think most decent, healthy, sound quarter horses have the POTENTIAL to be 2D horses, yes. The key words are "most" and "potential". You still have to have a good rider and decent training with sound fundamentals. Those are the big variables.Â
This was basically my point and opinion. Ive seen too many discarded pasture ornaments run really strong when trained and legged up properly. |
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| No, I don't think they ALL have 2D potential. However based on looking at bloodlines when buying a prospect I think to myself that they should certainly be able to get the job done in the arena. . . it just doesnt always work that way however.
I have a really cool gelding that we have had since he was 6 years old (now 17) and he will give 110% all day long but he just doesnt have the wheels to clock. Super nice 3D/4D horse that has a really really pretty pattern but the gas just isnt there. He is pretty priceless to us and I don't know if we will ever sell him, so we let some youth run him in the summer. I like giving people the chance to hop on a different horse than what they are already on so they can get a good variety of horses under their belt for experience.
I also have a gelding that I am just happy to hit the bottom of the 2D with. He is just TOO ratey and his turning style shuts him down too much to keep him fast against the clock. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I give another vote for NO.
When you consider western pleasure bred horses, draft horses, gaited horses, and ALL the healthy sound horses in the world who are in their prime, I do NOT believe that even half of them can make a solid 2D horse.
Breed was never specified in the semantics argument, so just bringing that up.
Still, if we consider only quarter horses, I still would say no.
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | If it was just that easy to pull almost any horse out of the pasture in it's prime, I think we'd see barrel trainers making tons of money off of selling these 2D potential horses. After all, if you have the right training and environment, it should be a breeze to factory make them, right? |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Red Raider - 2014-01-08 2:15 PM
If it was just that easy to pull almost any horse out of the pasture in it's prime, I think we'd see barrel trainers making tons of money off of selling these 2D potential horses. After all, if you have the right training and environment, it should be a breeze to factory make them, right? Â
I never said it would be easy.
Take a horse out of pasture in its prime put a strong foundation under him then train on barrels and season for however long that particular horse requires and I think paired with the right jockey they have a good shot at the 2D. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I have a gelding that COULD be a 1D all day long barrel horse if he wanted to be but he doesn't want to so he looks like he's out for a joy ride. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day.  |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Itsme - 2014-01-08 12:46 PM SaraJean - 2014-01-08 1:36 PM Are we talking ALL horses in general regardless of breed or bloodlines? Or are we talking more specifically horses bred to run barrels? Im not concerned with bloodlines but im not talking about ponies and minnies either.
So lets toss out all the draft horses, ponies & all the gaited horses for that matter. But then even just in the stock horse breeds you've got your halter horses, the true western pleasure horses & so many others that have been bred to extreme specialization for their specific discipline. While some of those horses would make it in the barrel pen most would not especially as 2D horses. There is a reason breeding for barrel racing & other disciplines has become so specialized, it's because those lines are proven again & again to excel and win. But even that isn't enough to get a top calliber horse, they don't all love what they're bred to do. Even if you take every horse that is specifically bred for barrels & give them the same caliber of feed, hoof care, training, well fitted tack & riders of equal caliber not all are going to make it to the top. |
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Expert
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| OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM
No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average.  If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day.
While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine.
Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding?
Interesting how this kinda comes full circle... |
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 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | I had a mare several years ago that had all the ability in the world. I was a decent rider in my prime and this horse could REALLY lay down a set of barrels when she WANTED to, the problem was she did NOT have the heart or desire for it. I put a LOT of work into her and a solid foundation but again she just did not have the heart for it. We switched her to English and she excelled and clearly loved it. I believe a horse can have all the potential in the world and have a great rider but if they do not have the heart for it, they are never going to make any "D" of a horse, at least not one that is fun to ride. So I think even if a horse has the physical ability, without the heart they "worthless" at the displine we try to fit them to. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average. If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
Edited by Murphy 2014-01-08 2:53 PM
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| horses are just like people you got smart ones dumd ones medicore ones.
that why i to say no and disagree most horse are 3 and 4 d |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Murphy - 2014-01-08 2:51 PM
Itsme - 2014-01-08 3:45 PM OregonBR - 2014-01-08 2:32 PM No. I've trained enough random bloodline quarter horses to know some have "it" and many do not. Now I concentrate only on bloodlines that have a history of being better than average.  If it were true that any horse could be a 1D horse, why would anyone buy an expensive prospect and send it to a big name trainer. Just buy a random horse and send it to them. The fact is, the best trainers recognise how much easier their job is when the horse has natural aptitude for barrels. Just like reining trainers, cutting trainers and certainly race horse trainers. That's why the best prospects demand good prices. That doesn't mean 100% of them will make the cut either. But 50% is better than 10% any day. While I do agree with a lot of what youre saying people buy big names because of the propaganda machine. Look at FG they push and push that line but the percentage of the offspring making it is SMALL. So is that percentage low because of the training and jockey or breeding? Interesting how this kinda comes full circle...
I do agree some lines have better potential than the average cow bred horse. I just believe the average horse has more potential than most people think and a lot of a horses abilities shine through with good training and the correct jockey. |
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