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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
  
Location: Canada | I have to agree that the deal was your son could ride the horse but if it was to ever leave your family it had to go back to the original owners. I think you need to honor that agreement and return the horse free of charge.
Your sister had no right to sell a horse that wasn't hers to sell (she had no legal ownership of the horse) and I'd say the owners could pursue a Stolen horse claim if you tried to sell it. Whether anything comes of the claim or not is another matter but why risk the hassle. Send the horse back and talk to your sister. If she can return the money great, if she can't maybe you can work out a deal where she works it off for you (doing chores or riding horses) or you can write it off as just a learning experience and be thankful you had a great horse for your son to ride and learn on.
If you're really stuck for money for another horse - Another option is, and it may be too late depending on how angry the original owners are, is to send them a nice email or call and say that you now are aware of the previous agreement and are very sorry for the confusion as you weren't aware of the deal your sister had made. Explain that you appreciate the use of the horse and thank them for allowing your son to learn to ride on him. Find out what they want the horse for. If he's going to just be a pet and they really have no use for him you can explain that you have put a lot of time and effort into schooling the horse and see if they'd be willing to allow you to sell the horse to an approved home where he will be used and you'd split the proceeds of the sale 50/50, 60/40 or whatever they see fit. They may tell you to stuff it or it may peak their interest if they aren't interested in feeding him right now.
The problem with first right of refusal is that it's never clarified if the horse is to be offered back at the original price or the adjusted price. If you own a horse, and provide the previous owners with first right of refusal, if the horse is injured and only pasture sound and you offer to sell it at a reduced price or give it away likely the previous owners don't want the horse back.
If you take that same horse (for arguments sake $1000 horse) and make is something spectacular and decide to sell many previous owners want that horse back at the original $1000 selling price. This isn't always true but it seems to be more true then not.
I hope the situation works out and I'm sorry you got caught in the cross-fire.
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | The deal was that you give the horse back not sell it. You made a choice to GIVE your sister money when she needed another horse because the same deal existed then. You are using a horse LOANED to you. It is not yours to sell! The money you gave your sister was a GIFT, not to purchase the horse from her.....it was not hers to sell. I had this nearly happen to me and I'm telling you that situations like this make good hearted people not want to help out anymore......because we get screwed! |
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Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | So, I just read the whole thread. If you pursue legal action, I'm thinking your sister will be the one to be in the hot seat when it comes to a court of law. Ask the ORIGINAL owner what they would like to do. I'll bet they are great people and just want what's best for the horse and the kids |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | While this has equine related questions in it, this issue is really about basic contract law in Texas. Per the original agreement, the horse was allowed to be in the care of your sister under certain conditions. When those conditions changed, the parties reworked the contract so-to-speak to allow for a modification. You are now wanting to change the terms from the original agreement and the other side is unwilling. If you continue on with your plans to sell this horse or not give it back to the original owners, you'd be in breach of the original contract and liable for any damages incurred (cost of getting the horse back, etc.).
As it stands, I do not believe that the original owners can file a theft charge on you just based upon the terms of the contract changing or wanting to be changed. It's more of a civil matter on how you guys will proceed. Now if you sell the horse knowning that ownership and your ability to do so is shaky, you could find yourself both liable under criminal and civil law for selling property that was not yours to sell.
My best advice would be to return the horse to the original owners as soon as you can. As posted above, you may be able to provide them with contact information on other families who might want to lease or purchase the horse. On a worst case scenerio, you don't want this horse in your possession if he ends up sick or hurt after this type of fighting has been going on. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 653
Location: Quinlan, TX | Thank you all so much for your input in this very ugly situation. I will be contacting the previous owners this evening to discuss all options. I don't want this to get any worse than it already has. Thats not the kind of person I am. I want to do whats right and I want my sister to learn from this as well. I will update to let you all know how this turns out. Thanks to those of you who gave me good solid advice without being mean and hateful as I was kinda caught in the middle of this unintentionally. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| It sounds like the agreement was that the horse was NOT to be sold, THAT was the agreement... they wanted the horse back at no charge if she was to be rehomed at all, for a fee or otherwise. It doesn't matter that you are asking money for the horse, they wanted the horse back when you are through with her they made that clear. The horse should go back to previous owners. this whole thing make me upset and I'm not even the original owner! bottom line is you now KNOW the situation.. do the right thing. ETA it sounds like you knew the deal if you knew your sister had to call and ASK PERMISSION to give your son the horse, so when you GOT the horse you KNEW it had to be returned.. idk .. seems fishy to me.
Edited by SwishMiss 2014-01-27 4:56 PM
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 Member
Posts: 37
| The big question is, who legally owns the horse? Do you have a brand inspection on said horse? If so the horse is yours pure and simple. Now is it right morally to sell the horse? Maybe, maybe not. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 600
Location: Oklahoma & Texas | It all comes down to who really owns the horse...sounds like those people do...she wasnt you sisters to sell and therefore isnt yours to sell...sounds more like an agreement to which in return for feeding and caring for the horse your sister and now you have been allowed to use the horse but if neither of you ever recieved a bill of sale or reg papers on the horse then you really dont own the horse...selling a horse you dont own could turn ugly in iteelf and bring about charges all its own...I'd give the horse back...sounds like the deal has gone south for all involved. |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | chrissyfouse - 2014-01-28 8:00 AM Ok let me re-phrase.....I was not aware that the horse was given to my sister with any conditions until this past weekend. I knew that the horse had been given to her after the death of her mare. Had I known that there where any conditions I would NOT have paid any money for this mare. Yes I am aware my sister should have let me know she was to be returned if she ever wanted to get rid of her......which is why she asked if my son could be her new owner. I do not want anyone thinking I do not follow through with conditiond I agree to......thats not the case. There has been a major lack of communication on my sisters part......
Then you need to take that up with your sister. SHE is the one who sold a horse that she had no right to sell.. That is called FRAUD. You should do the right thing and either use the horse (keep it) or give it back to the people. Get your money back from your sister, but don't try and make these folks pay for a horse they gave in good faith. |
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| zerotlperformancehor - 2014-01-27 5:03 PM
The big question is, who legally owns the horse? Do you have a brand inspection on said horse? If so the horse is yours pure and simple. Now is it right morally to sell the horse? Maybe, maybe not.
Not every state has or requires brand inspections. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| chrissyfouse - 2014-01-27 3:23 PM Thank you all so much for your input in this very ugly situation. I will be contacting the previous owners this evening to discuss all options. I don't want this to get any worse than it already has. Thats not the kind of person I am. I want to do whats right and I want my sister to learn from this as well. I will update to let you all know how this turns out. Thanks to those of you who gave me good solid advice without being mean and hateful as I was kinda caught in the middle of this unintentionally.
I guess I missed the part that leads you to think there are other options then returning the horse. I understand you bought a horse that was not for sale, have time invested in him but you also undestood the owner wanted to know where his horse was and have him returned to him when your sister or you no longer wanted him. I don't understand how you can justify wanting the owner to buy back a horse they never sold in the first place. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1969
Location: Texas | GIVE them their horse back and be frustrated at yourself and your sister. JMO |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 653
Location: Quinlan, TX | rodeomom3 - 2014-01-27 5:36 PM chrissyfouse - 2014-01-27 3:23 PM Thank you all so much for your input in this very ugly situation. I will be contacting the previous owners this evening to discuss all options. I don't want this to get any worse than it already has. Thats not the kind of person I am. I want to do whats right and I want my sister to learn from this as well. I will update to let you all know how this turns out. Thanks to those of you who gave me good solid advice without being mean and hateful as I was kinda caught in the middle of this unintentionally. I guess I missed the part that leads you to think there are other options then returning the horse. I understand you bought a horse that was not for sale, have time invested in him but you also undestood the owner wanted to know where his horse was and have him returned to him when your sister or you no longer wanted him. I don't understand how you can justify wanting the owner to buy back a horse they never sold in the first place.
When I said all options....I meant in getting the horse back to them if thats what they wanted. Right now I can't make the 8+ hr round trip to return the horse to them due to work. I did talk to the previos owners last night and we had a very nice respectful conversation. I am willing to keep the horse if they can't or don't want to come get her and NOT sell her if thats what they want. I can figure out another way to get my son another horse if needed. In the mean time he still loves her and he will keep riding her. And despite who thinks this sounds fishy or those of you who think that I KNEW the original conditions between them and my sister.....I DID NOT. Not until this past weekend and now that I have talked to both my sister and the original owners I know the entire story and I AM WILLING to give the horse back and take what money I spend on the horse up with my sister. I even offered to help with fuel for them to come pick her up if needed since this was no way their fault. Im trying to make things right the best way I can. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 653
Location: Quinlan, TX | SwishMiss - 2014-01-27 3:35 PM It sounds like the agreement was that the horse was NOT to be sold, THAT was the agreement... they wanted the horse back at no charge if she was to be rehomed at all, for a fee or otherwise. It doesn't matter that you are asking money for the horse, they wanted the horse back when you are through with her they made that clear. The horse should go back to previous owners. this whole thing make me upset and I'm not even the original owner! bottom line is you now KNOW the situation.. do the right thing. ETA it sounds like you knew the deal if you knew your sister had to call and ASK PERMISSION to give your son the horse, so when you GOT the horse you KNEW it had to be returned.. idk .. seems fishy to me.
I knew they wanted to know where the horse was.....NOT that my sister needed permission to give her to my son. And the only thing that they asked of me was to let them know if I ever decided to get rid of her. But regardless now I am resolving the issue and have talked with the previous owners and we are taking care of it. When I originally posted this I had not talked with the previous owners personally. As of last night I have and now have both sides of the story and Im trying to do what is right. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 653
Location: Quinlan, TX | Sooooooooo.......
Original owners came up on Sunday and picked the mare up. They were really excited to have her back since she was born and raised on their place. Also told my son that when he goes for the summer to his grandparents house he can come ride her anytime!! I feel horrible that it started out so bad, but we ended on a good note. And now my sister is having to pay me back the money I gave her for the mare. Lesson learned I hope!! Anyhow.....hope everyone has a fabulous week.....Its HUMP Day!! |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest |  |
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| That is very good news. The original owners have their mare back, they sound like very nice and generous people. You get to live with the knowledge that you did the right thing. Your son gets to know that he will get to see and ride the mare again. Everyone has learned a valuable lesson and all's well that ends well.
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Thanks for the update!! Glad everything got resolved! |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I'm glad it all worked out! |
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