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| When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
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Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-01-29 10:15 PM
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM
When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
********************************************************************
Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers.
Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period.
The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion.
Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not.
You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad.
There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period.
And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human.
Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous.
Edited by hlynn 2014-01-29 10:41 PM
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | I use high fat or added fat grains so i can reduce the amount of grain being fed therefore less digestive issues.. it also adds calories to a diet and helps horses maintain or add weight. triple crown or ADM are high quality .. if you have a easy keeper or obese Id not recommend high fat grains. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
     
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 8:43 PM
If your horse likes the high fat feed that is made from used French fry and fried catfish grease from restaurants ..... feed him all he can eat .... if you ever saw this crap in their grease traps ... you would apologize to your horse and never feed anything above 4% fat from natural plant sources ...
I have to grin when people feed this crap to their horses and then demand fat free foods when they go to a restaurant to eat ....
Look at your ingredients in your high priced feed you are feeding .. ... waste products and more waste products ... and then everyone wonders why old horse feels bad all the time ... lol ..
What do you buy for yourself to eat that has high fat content in it???
Just curious ...
Our digestive tracts are different, in a horse the hind gut breaks down the fat where the stomach processes the simple carbohydrates.
I know in Canada a list of the ingredients is posted/listed on each bag. Majority of our feeds alfalfa is the first ingredient.
What I give my skinny horses when I have them is what ever feed I am feeding all the others then I add half to a cup of whole flax seed I grind up immediately before giving. This will make your horse bloom I swear. If I think they are nutrient deprived (starved) horses I will gradually add red cell to their diet.
If your horse is not on free choice hay, I would suggest trying this as well | |
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| hlynn - 2014-01-29 10:38 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM
When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
********************************************************************
Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers.
Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period.
The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior ) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source ). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion.
Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not.
You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad.
There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period.
And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human.
Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous.
Lady you sound just like a democrat with your name calling and misinformation ...
half the diseases in horses are imagined by barrel racers with a new disease every 2 years ....... and they believe all of the marketing crap and pretty pictures on the high priced bags ...
The benchmark for all milled horse feeds is corn, oats, alfalfa and good quality hay... then for higher profits they find waste products to add to the volume so the bag will still weigh 50#'s to increase their profit margin at your expense .........
The most famous horses in the world lived their entire lives on products made by Mother Nature and not some marketing scheme like we see today to increase their profits ....
I haven't even mentioned all the heavy metals and alien chemicals used in the extruding process while creating the human food waste products you are feeding to your horses ... nor the affect they have on organs, brain or muscles in horses .... your horse feed producers are dang sure NOT going to mention any of these to you ... lol
And the only reason I wanted you to scan and show your feed tags was so you can't cherry pick the ingredients in the feed you are feeding like you did ..........
For those who care ... if you see alfalfa (16+% protein) or soybean meal (44% protein) listed .. these two are used to raise the protein level in the feed .... .... If you see 15-16%+ fiber in your feed you are paying dearly for ground up corn cobs or wheat stubble ...
Have a nice day ... I am going to go see what Obama and the NSA thinks about our feeding horses discussion .... ...
FAT IS FAT NO MATTER WHO IS EATING THE ICE CREAM CONE ... just ask Michelle Obama ...... lol
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Well I could care less about Obama , that's for sure. Clearly I've missed alot since I've been gone ! Lol anyways back on subject .. Lets just ignore the people's comments that clearly don't know much . If I didn't feed my horse fat , she'd be rail lol shes already on all the hay she can eat also .. I hear adm feeds are good .. But I'm not familiar with any of them at all. What's a good feed by them that might suit my horse ? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
     Location: Paradise , tx | 3rustycans - 2014-01-29 6:40 PM I would try triple crown complete. It's 12% fat 12% protein. There senior that your currently feeding is 10%fat 14%protein. But is it possible your horse has ulcers? Could be why she is finicky and not holding the weight.
I just started using theTriple Crown complete. I have a 25 year old, and a 10 year old My senior loves the Triple crown. Actually both do, but the 25 year old is attacking it! I started using it because my senior is looking old Anyway,after comparing it to their senior feed, I decided to go with the complete, as I like the ingredients, nutrition listed better. Not saying I won't switch to the senior later, but decide to go this route for now. Seems to working ok at this point but really hasn't been long enough to really judge. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | RodeoRider97 - 2014-01-29 8:51 PM Not to be mean or rude, BARRELHORSEUSA, but horses and humans are very much different. We don't order high-fat content food because if we did it'd put a toll on our horses being over-weight and trust me I know I'm 190 pounds. And losing weight and I can tell a BIG difference in my riding I'm muc more balanced and centered over my horse than I am flopping everywhere when I was 230. My horse's back isn't sore and she's willing to go out riding anytime without being sore. People aren't suppose to have that much fat like our athlete of barrel horses need. They need so much because they are TRULY athletes. They work anywhere from 3-6 days a week an hour or more a day so yea, they need a little more protein and fat in their diet to keep them looking good and that "fat" in the feed builds not only builds fat where they need it but that soon turns into solid muscle to help them run barrels. While I agree with most of what you're saying -- fat doesn't turn into muscle. Fat provides a steady source of fuel (energy) AND in the proper forms lubricates joints along with other benefits such as insulation, a healthy coat & skin, healthy hooves etc.. A lack of fat will cause the 'burn' of protien ( the building block of muscle) for energy.
Fat is needed in the human for brain function, joints & some other things. In addition, there's a growing segment that believes the steady elimination of fat from our diets is contributing expotentially to our overweight issues in this country. Fat keeps the digestion system going & insulates. A lack of the propert amounts of 'fat' consumption cause the body to store it & slows metabolism.
ie: it's a balancing act but all three feed sources are necessary for a healthy horse and more & more, the research is leaning toward higher fat diets than we've seen in the past. Our mare thrives on a higher fat / lower carb diet with a good dose of protien. Remove those fat calories and she starts looking like a waif through the rear & hips but maintains a belly.
eta: I loved everything about ADM Senior Glo & Moorglo combined. In the winter we were feeding 2lbs of the senior & 1 lb of moorglo with all around great results. However, I can't get the seniorglo anymore so I just switched to TC Lite with Purina Amplify added for fat content & I'm starting at a 2/1 ratio which if I did my calculations correctly will give her the same nutrient, protien, nsc & fat content as she was getting. I'm crossing my fingers we get the same results. I wanted a fixed formula feed, too
Edited by dme0324 2014-01-30 7:37 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| Hm .. You guys are making me lean towards the TC complete ! :) how high of an NSC is too high for most of you? I know. 20.6% is the TC complete .. I've had her on ultium before though & she seemed totally fine on it & it is 16% NSC & and has corn in it.. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | hlynn - 2014-01-29 8:16 PM Where are you located? Nutrena offers a feed that is a lot like TC Senior but it's only available in certain states and will probably have to be special ordered by your dealer.
The Pro Force isn't available in South Dakota. I feed the Nutrena Safe Choice Sr to one of my geldings as he needs a very low starch feed. It has 8% fat. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | I feed the tc complete with a bit of rice bran
It works well | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | hlynn - 2014-01-29 10:38 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers. Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period. The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior ) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source ). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion. Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not. You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad. There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period. And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human. Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous.
Corn & oats are over 40% starch. Not all horses can have that. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-30 12:03 AM hlynn - 2014-01-29 10:38 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 10:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Do you realize the negative health effects that corn can have on the horse's body? How about oats? Oats are ok in moderation, but in high amounts can cause A LOT of metabolic issues, including ulcers. Corn is HORRIBLE for horses. Period. The first three ingredients in the feed the OP is talking about (Triple Crown Senior ) is beet pulp, alfalfa meal, and what middlings (a protein & fiber source ). Ingredients also include rice bran, flax seed, soy oil, soybean meal, soybean hulls, and then the ingredients added to meet the needs of the horse in amino acids, minerals, and vitamins. And also some pre and pro biotics for digestion. Is it perfect? No. But it is FAR from being junk. I would rather feed TC Senior than ANY feed containing corn, organic or not. You're extremely close minded. Wake up and read up on EVERY kind of study, not just what's been done that says processed feeds are bad. There are junk feeds out there, but the Nutrena ProForce, Triple Crown Senior, and a few other choice feeds are NOT junk feeds. Period. And no one said fat turned into muscle. If you would READ FOR COMPREHENSION, I said that FAT MEANS ENERGY. Which is what a BARREL HORSE needs. Not a human. Stop comparing a high needs equine athlete to the regular woman on the street. We don't run/jog for miles a day. We don't sprint up to 40 miles an hour. We don't weigh 1200lbs. So stop. You're making yourself look extremely stupid and ridiculous. Lady you sound just like a democrat with your name calling and misinformation ... half the diseases in horses are imagined by barrel racers with a new disease every 2 years ....... and they believe all of the marketing crap and pretty pictures on the high priced bags ... The benchmark for all milled horse feeds is corn, oats, alfalfa and good quality hay... then for higher profits they find waste products to add to the volume so the bag will still weigh 50#'s to increase their profit margin at your expense ......... The most famous horses in the world lived their entire lives on products made by Mother Nature and not some marketing scheme like we see today to increase their profits .... I haven't even mentioned all the heavy metals and alien chemicals used in the extruding process while creating the human food waste products you are feeding to your horses ... nor the affect they have on organs, brain or muscles in horses .... your horse feed producers are dang sure NOT going to mention any of these to you ... lol And the only reason I wanted you to scan and show your feed tags was so you can't cherry pick the ingredients in the feed you are feeding like you did .......... For those who care ... if you see alfalfa (16+% protein ) or soybean meal (44% protein ) listed .. these two are used to raise the protein level in the feed .... .... If you see 15-16%+ fiber in your feed you are paying dearly for ground up corn cobs or wheat stubble ... Have a nice day ... I am going to go see what Obama and the NSA thinks about our feeding horses discussion .... ... FAT IS FAT NO MATTER WHO IS EATING THE ICE CREAM CONE ... just ask Michelle Obama ...... lol
Good grief -- you are both making some valid points. LOL, this is what my daughter is doing her science fair project on right now.
SO, quit argueing & being so combative because it's about sharing knowledge not brow beating each other.
The OP did say she is looking for a fixed formula feed -- they are out there, but few and far between these days & in some areas (like ours) -- you can't get much of anything because Nutrena & Purina have such a lock on the market so you do the best you can with what's available & what fits your pocketbook. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Ingredients of TC Complete: IngredientsShredded Beet Pulp, Cane Molasses, Whole Oats, Soybean Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Alfalfa Meal, Soybean Hulls, Distillers Dried Grains, Ground Limestone, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Defluorinated Phosphate, Salt, Magnesium Oxide, Yeast Culture, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Anise Seed, Fenugreek Seed, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Kelp Meal, Copper Proteinate, Lecithin, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Stabilized Rice Bran, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Flaxseed, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Sesquicarbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Brewers Dried Yeast, L-Lysine, Monosodium Phosphate, Lignin Sulfonate, DL-methionine, DL-methionine Hydroxy Analog, (Propionic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate (Preservatives)). (Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000) - See more at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/feeds/upgraded-horse-diet-h...
You are going to have fillers in any commercial grains... but not grease from a deep fryer... | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| I feed molasses free beet pulp, the amount according to the horses needs and feed Progressive Pro add ultimate for vitamins and minerals- 1 measuring cup am and pm. They have access to round bale, get a little alfalfa and have 75 acres to graze. Horses look and feel great, I get compliments on them all the time. Here is a great article about the glycemic index in feeds and how it effects the horse. The lower the glyccemic index the better the feed performs with a slow release of energy as opposed to sugar highs and lows. I have one that the seller said was hard to keep weight on in the heat of our summers but he does great with my feed program. Glycemic Index You’ve probably heard this terminology at some point or another: glycemic index. This “buzz phrase” has been circulating among informed horse owners for several years now, but what is glycemic index? Why is it important in equine nutrition? Glycemic index is a system used to rank carbohydrates based on their effect on blood glucose levels. Devised by Canadian scientists in the early 1980s, the system compares available carbohydrates gram for gram in individual feedstuffs, providing a numerical, evidence-based index of postprandial glycemia (the level of glucose in the blood after a meal). Though originally developed for humans, the system been modified and proven reliable for horses. Carbohydrates that break down quickly during digestion have the highest glycemic indices. On the opposite end of the spectrum, carbohydrates that break down slowly, releasing glucose gradually into the bloodstream, have the lowest glycemic indices. A lower glycemic index suggests a slower rate of diges- tion of sugars and starches in the foods. A lower glycemic response is believed to create a lower insulin demand, better long-term blood glucose control, and a reduction in blood lipids. “In human studies, the measurement of blood glucose and insulin response is known as a suitable tool for assessing the effects of food processing on starch digestion,” said Ingrid Vervuert and Manfred Coenen in a paper titled “The Glycemic and Insulinemic Index in Horses,” published in Advances in Equine Nutrition III (J.D. Pagan, editor). “In humans, starchy foods have been classified over the entire range from ‘restrained,’ or low glycemic and insulin response, to ‘rapid’ with respect to effects on blood glucose and insulin response after a meal. The resulting glycemic or insulinemic index utilized white bread as the standard source, and all foods were ranked accordingly.” A similar ranking has been established for horses based on research performed at Kentucky Equine Research (KER) (Table 1). Both cereal grains and forages are included in the table. The values shown in Table 1. Glycemic index (GI) of equine feeds and forages. Feed Glycemic Index Sweet feed..................................................................129 Whole oats..................................................................100 Beet pulp and molasses ..................................................94 Cracked corn .................................................................90 Re-Leve®1 .....................................................................81 Beet pulp (unrinsed)......................................................72 Orchard grass hay ..........................................................49 Rice bran ..................................................................... 47 Ryegrass hay .................................................................47 Alfalfa hay ....................................................................46 I.R. Pellet2 and orchard grass hay.....................................34 Beet pulp (rinsed)..........................................................34 Bluestem hay ................................................................23 1Re-Leve, KERx, Versailles, KY, 1-888-873-1988, www.kerx.com 2I.R. Pellet, KERx, Versailles, KY, 1-888-873-1988, www.kerx.com A publication of Kentucky Equine Research, Inc. • 3910 Delaney Ferry Road • Versailles, KY 40383 USA • 859-
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 7:35 AM Hm .. You guys are making me lean towards the TC complete ! :) how high of an NSC is too high for most of you? I know. 20.6% is the TC complete .. I've had her on ultium before though & she seemed totally fine on it & it is 16% NSC & and has corn in it..
I think the NSC content depends on what your horse can tolerate and if there are other health issues such as PSSM. The PSSM horse, I believe the recommendation is to keep the total NSC below 10%.
Give me a few minutes & I'll try to post a copy of my spreadsheet comparing the ADM Senior Glo / Moorglo combo and what I'm using now, TC Lite with Amplify added.
Again, I really, really loved the ADM products. Farted around for a month and half trying to wait for an ADM rep to pick me up some feed before I finally threw the towel in & decided I had to find something else. However, it is a soft pellet which I think you said your horse didn't particularly like. Also, don't rule out adding FORCO -- it's reasonable & the results are pretty amazing. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| From the Chronicle of the Horse: Fix It With Feed Part 7: High-Fat Diets Can Solve More Than One Problem Adding oil to your horse's diet is an excellent way to increase fat intake. Photo by Molly Sorge. This is the seventh article in the "Fix It With Feed" series. Check back every Wednesday for more articles on nutrition and how it affects performance. In the world of human nutrition, fat is usually a bad word. However, for horses, a high-fat diet can help solve a myriad of issues. Not only will additional fat aid with the obvious issue of weight gain, but it’s also a good source of “cool” energy, may improve skin and coat quality and can even help prevent tying up. “There are no real negatives to feeding a high-fat diet except the possibility of feeding too many calories,” said Olivia Martin of Performance Feeding. “Feeding a horse to be overweight can trigger other problems such as metabolic disorders and unneeded stress on joints and other structures. However, hard-to-keep horses and highly strung/excitable horses benefit from high fat diets. Horses suffering from conditions such as chronic tying up and Polysaccharide Storage Myophathy also benefit from a high-fat diet.” Why Feed Fat? One of the first questions people ask about a high-fat diet for horses is: Is it natural? The answer is no, but that’s no reason to avoid fat. In the wild, horses would get all the calories and nutrients they needed from grass and other forages. However, today’s sport horses have decreased access to forage and increased caloric demands due to exercise, so they need supplementation in the form of concentrates. “They aren’t designed to eat fat, but they can cope with it,” said Tania Cubitt, Ph.D., a nutritionist withPerformance Horse Nutrition LLC. “Horses don’t have a gall bladder, and in humans, the gall bladder stores bile, which breaks down fat. The liver in the horse can produce some bile to break down fat. We have determined through science that they can deal with fat in their diet, and it’s better than feeding high amounts of sugars and starches.” Fat contains 2.25 times more energy than cereal grains such as corn or barley, so when you increase fat in the diet, you can feed fewer pounds of feed. However, if you’re supplementing fat to your horse’s regular feed, be careful not to cut back too much on his concentrate ration. Commercially formulated feeds only provide your horse with the nutrients he needs if you follow the manufacturer’s recommendations at mealtime. The digestion of fats does not increase blood sugar, and horses digest fat very efficiently in the small intestine. Given two to three weeks to adjust, horses can digest up to 20 percent fat in their total diet, although it’s only practical to feed them that much in a research setting. (That’s why it’s OK for horses to eat high-fat diets and not humans—a high-fat diet for a human might consist of 60-70 percent of total calories from fat or more!) In the past, pre-formulated high-fat feeds weren’t as readily available, but today we have many more options. A concentrate ration with 3-4 percent fat may be perfectly appropriate for an easy keeper in light work, but many performance horses benefit from more fat in their diet. “Fat gives the horse physical energy without increasing mental energy. Feeding fat can also benefit a horse’s skin and coat condition,” said Martin. “The fat content of the ration does not affect the protein needed by the horse. Fat is an energy source only.” High-fat diets enable horses in intense situations, such as pregnant or lactating mares, or horses working at high levels, to safely and more efficiently meet their energy requirements. In the case of hard-working horses, a horse can use fats to help keep their muscles working during stressful situations. However, it’s important to remember that horses need time to adjust before they can digest fat easily. If you choose to switch your horse to a high-fat diet, do so slowly and well before a competition so his muscles can use the new source of energy efficiently. The Omegas Another benefit of feeding fat is the addition of omega fatty acids into the diet. Omega fatty acids have been shown to benefit humans and other animals in a variety of ways, and studies are just starting to come out that show the benefits for horses. Benefits may include: - Increased plasma and red blood cell levels
- Increased semen quality post freezing or chilling in breeding stallions
- Reduction in inflammatory response to exercise
- Improved vitamin E status in horses fed supplemental vitamin
- Reduction in inflammation caused by arthritis
Omega 3 and Omega 6 are essential fatty acids—nutrients that a horse must get from feed rather than producing internally. The horse needs a balance of Omega 3s to Omega 6s, but we don’t yet know what the best ratio is. “The natural diet of horses—primarily fresh and dried forages—contains more Omega 3 fatty acids than diets consisting of a mixture of forage and cereal grains,” said Martin. “Domesticated horses are often fed concentrated sources of energy in the form of grain meals. Grains possess more Omega 6 fatty acids than forage, creating a balance of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fatty acids that may be inappropriate, especially when diets are high in grain.” Omega 3s are thought to be anti-inflammatory in the body, and Omega 6s are thought to be pro-inflammatory, and both are necessary. So the idea is not to eliminate Omega 6s from the diet, but to look for ways to supplement Omega 3s, especially for horses with less access to good pasture. Percentage Of Omega 3s And Omega 6s In Common Fat Supplements Chart courtesy of Tania Cubitt, Ph.D. Ingredient | Omega 3 | Omega 6 | Rice Bran Oil | 1% | 39% | Corn Oil | 1% | 58% | Soybean Oil | 7% | 51% | Canola Oil | 11% | 21% | Flaxseed Oil | 53% | 16% | Fish oil is another excellent source of Omega 3s. Fat Sources 101 Most commercial feeds already have some amount of fat in them, but the level varies greatly depending on the product. Cereal grains, such as corn and oats, are high in carbohydrates but low in fat. Oils, on the other hand, are 99 percent fat. Therefore, adding oil to your horse’s diet is one of the easiest methods for increasing fat intake. Flax seed is another source of fat and may be fed as an oil or ground meal. There are, however, some drawbacks to flax. “Large amounts of flax aren’t palatable,” said Cubitt. “I recommend it a lot, but more for the Omega 3 fatty acids. For sheer weight gain, you need to feed two to three cups of oil a day on top of a high-fat ration, and for some reason they don’t like the taste of it. And it can be quite costly.” Another issue with flax is that the seeds must be ground for horses to get the benefit, as they can’t digest the seed coating. “As soon as you grind it, you expose the inside to oxidation and hence rancidity. That’s why you have to put it in the fridge,” said Cubitt. “If you’re going to buy it in bulk, keep the seed in a cool dry place and grind it as needed. Ground flax is not as potent as straight flax oil for calories because it’s got the fiber in there.” Rice bran is another option for additional fat, and it comes in pelleted or extruded versions. However, it only contains 20 percent fat. There are also numerous fat supplements on the market. However, it’s important to read the ingredients list. Fat can come from a vegetable or animal source, but animal fat is not as palatable to horses. Animal fat is only about 75 percent digestible, whereas vegetable fat is 95 percent. In small intakes of fat, the digestibility is insignificant, but when a horse consumes a large amount, such as when he is on a high-fat diet, the fat that isn’t digested can upset the balance of microbes in the hindgut. It’s fine to feed a small amount of fish oil in order to add Omega 3s to your horse’s diet, but look to the vegetable fats to add substantial amounts of fat. | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Hey, Rodeomom - thanks for the links & articles. LOL, we're doing more research this weekend & you unwittingly just really helped with the project my daughter's working on! :) | |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
      Location: West Tennessee | Well that didn't work so well -- let me know if you want me try again -- I can't figure out how to just copy & paste it..... The link breaks the columns into 2 pages so it's hard to read.
Edited by dme0324 2014-01-30 8:06 AM
Attachments ----------------
Lassie's Feed Analysis Share.pdf (91KB - 261 downloads)
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ********************************************************************
Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. | |
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