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 Expert
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| Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-25 1:24 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-02-25 12:26 PM What Brian and Tracy taught me about their saddle is to have the saddle sit behind the shoulder you need to have the riggin farthest forward so the cinch will be in the right spot, and by the picture you have the rigging in the centre. I would try to move the rigging forward and the saddle back an inch or two as it looks like it still could be on the shoulders. I would also take the pad off put the shims on then feel underneath the saddle and make sure the pressure is even
When you move the rigging all the way forward, then you have too much pressure pulling down on the very front, IMO. Mine is moved back, yet my saddle is still behind the shoulder standing still. I don't see how you can ride one far enough back for the shoulder blade to not come under the tree when they reach.
Well it doesn't really move the saddle that far back because the shoulder blade is designed to move down and back not straight back, if that makes any sense. I have found the farthest back is about 1.5inches behind the blade when the horse is standing square. By having the saddle behind the blade there is no weight on top of the blade causing stress, because in movement the blade is going back when the horse isn't bearing weight on it.(as the leg comes up the shoulder blade moves) By the time the leg is bearing weight the shoulder blade is out from underneath the front bars on the saddle. The bars on the saddle need to be curved to allow the scapula to move underneath them without interfering. I don't know if I am close to understanding saddle fit, but I have found that this seems to work well for me and this is about as much as I understand of it. If I'm wrong please correct me maybe I can better understand it. |
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Lickable I mean Likeable
Posts: 3965
Location: De Berry, Tx | When I was trying new saddles I knew immediately if it was going to work or not. When I went to lope if the saddle was to small in the withers my horse would lope really fast with his head up. When a saddle fit he would relax and stride out in the front end and put his head down. I was told to also walk my horse around about 50 steps before I tighten so the saddle will move into the natural position on his back instead of tightening it down and pinching him. Any one else do this? |
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 Expert
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| BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-25 2:00 PM Move the tugs of your breast collar down to the D rings of the saddle and get you a longer roper style mohair cinch 2 inches longer than the one she is wearing .. Your breast collar is pulling downwards on the swells the way she is tacked up right now. To place the saddle in your photos ... find the top of her shoulder blade and place your finger tips on the back side of it ... move your saddle so that the conchos are even with your finger tips and cinch her up. (the bars of the tree start right under the conchos) This will assure you of not restricting her shoulder blade movement and that the saddle is sitting in the 'sweet spot' right at the back side of her withers. Chasing dry spots is futile ... feel what you think is a dry spot for moisture and if hair is laying flat and not ruffed up and all you are seeing is a little more saddle pad wicking the moisture away .... a lot of times people forget their older saddle pads can become permanently compressed where the bars of the saddle are ... sometimes a good washing and rinsing will uncompact them or you need a new pad ... I would not be concerned unless the cantle of the saddle is raised up when cinching her up or flopping up and down when you are riding ... GOOD LUCK ...
What does it mean when the hair on the dry spot if ruffed up? I'm having that issue with one of my horses. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
| I called Double J and had a lenghty conversation with the main guy who fits saddles. We discussed the cervi saddles by Martin. He explained a lot of things that made sense on why their logic does not make sense. Also he said dry spots are not a horrible thing. IT DOES NOT MEAN A SADDLE DOESNT FIT. If the saddle was putting that much pressure on that spot they would be sore to the touch. The gentleman at Double J explained this very adimattly that if you can put a good amount of pressure all over your horses back and they are not sore then do not worry about the dry spots. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Canchaser1587 - 2014-02-25 8:10 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-25 2:00 PM Move the tugs of your breast collar down to the D rings of the saddle and get you a longer roper style mohair cinch 2 inches longer than the one she is wearing .. Your breast collar is pulling downwards on the swells the way she is tacked up right now. To place the saddle in your photos ... find the top of her shoulder blade and place your finger tips on the back side of it ... move your saddle so that the conchos are even with your finger tips and cinch her up. (the bars of the tree start right under the conchos) This will assure you of not restricting her shoulder blade movement and that the saddle is sitting in the 'sweet spot' right at the back side of her withers. Chasing dry spots is futile ... feel what you think is a dry spot for moisture and if hair is laying flat and not ruffed up and all you are seeing is a little more saddle pad wicking the moisture away .... a lot of times people forget their older saddle pads can become permanently compressed where the bars of the saddle are ... sometimes a good washing and rinsing will uncompact them or you need a new pad ... I would not be concerned unless the cantle of the saddle is raised up when cinching her up or flopping up and down when you are riding ... GOOD LUCK ...
What does it mean when the hair on the dry spot if ruffed up? I'm having that issue with one of my horses.
IMO to me the saddle is not making constant pressure causing the hair to be ruffled.
I have had this happen on a few horses who have very straight backs and Kelly kaminiski saddle and Lisa Lockhart saddle. I ordered a crown c with flat bars, my problem went away.
New horse is having problems with the 10inch gullet regular bar, but the 11 inch flat bar doesn't cause the effect.
I would say this is worse then dry patches |
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 Expert
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Location: on my horse | barrelracer4sure - 2014-02-25 3:41 PM
When I was trying new saddles I knew immediately if it was going to work or not. When I went to lope if the saddle was to small in the withers my horse would lope really fast with his head up. When a saddle fit he would relax and stride out in the front end and put his head down. I was told to also walk my horse around about 50 steps before I tighten so the saddle will move into the natural position on his back instead of tightening it down and pinching him. Any one else do this?
That's what I do too. When I put my saddle on, I grab the horn and give it a gentle shake and let it settle then walk at least a few steps before dropping my rigging and cinching. |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | SoonerLawyer - 2014-02-25 6:46 AM I took a pic last night of her without the shim, with the Relentless 3/4" pad. I haven't gotten one without the saddle yet (it was dark when I got done riding). I also threw one in of her without the saddle. It's not great, but it's as far to the side as I can find right now.
This saddle looks like it doesnt sit level. as in front it down and back is up which tells me the front is too wide |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-25 11:24 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-02-25 12:26 PM What Brian and Tracy taught me about their saddle is to have the saddle sit behind the shoulder you need to have the riggin farthest forward so the cinch will be in the right spot, and by the picture you have the rigging in the centre. I would try to move the rigging forward and the saddle back an inch or two as it looks like it still could be on the shoulders. I would also take the pad off put the shims on then feel underneath the saddle and make sure the pressure is even When you move the rigging all the way forward, then you have too much pressure pulling down on the very front, IMO. Mine is moved back, yet my saddle is still behind the shoulder standing still. I don't see how you can ride one far enough back for the shoulder blade to not come under the tree when they reach.
Same here. At one point or another, the shoulder will roll back underneath the saddle!! |
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3977
Location: Dearing, GA | What about treeless saddles? How should we interpret those sweat marks and dry spots? |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Just Let Me Run - 2014-02-26 9:02 AM What about treeless saddles? How should we interpret those sweat marks and dry spots? I have an even sweat pattern when I use a treeless. I don't particularly like riding it, but there's no doubt my horses are comfortable when I use it. A good pad makes a world of difference with those.
Edited by Three 4 Luck 2014-02-26 9:07 AM
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-26 9:06 AM
Just Let Me Run - 2014-02-26 9:02 AM What about treeless saddles? How should we interpret those sweat marks and dry spots? I have an even sweat pattern when I use a treeless. I don't particularly like riding it, but there's no doubt my horses are comfortable when I use it. A good pad makes a world of difference with those.
Ditto this. I have a gelding that the only saddle I could ride him in was a treeless, because at the time I didn't have money to drop on a Caldwell. I never had anything but even sweat marks: no dry spots, no rubs, no nothing. I used a cut-back impact gel pad to add wither clearance for himz |
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Independent Cuss
Posts: 3977
Location: Dearing, GA | svincent - 2014-02-26 1:44 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-26 9:06 AM
Just Let Me Run - 2014-02-26 9:02 AM What about treeless saddles? How should we interpret those sweat marks and dry spots? I have an even sweat pattern when I use a treeless. I don't particularly like riding it, but there's no doubt my horses are comfortable when I use it. A good pad makes a world of difference with those.
Ditto this. I have a gelding that the only saddle I could ride him in was a treeless, because at the time I didn't have money to drop on a Caldwell. I never had anything but even sweat marks: no dry spots, no rubs, no nothing. I used a cut-back impact gel pad to add wither clearance for himz
Ok i have inconsistent sweat and dry spots when I ride in my treeless. |
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Expert
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Location: The Great Northwest | r_beau - 2014-02-25 11:44 AM I've heard both.
I've heard that dry spots are no contact, and thus no sweat is formed because there's zero pressure.
But I have also heard that dry spots are pressure points. There is SO much contact that the skin can't sweat because it's pinched tight.
I have no idea which one is right. I've just always been told that dry spots are bad. I wouldn't think it would be good to have zero pressure on certain spots, nor is it good to have excessive pressure on certain spots.
Exactly! You should slide your hand under the area where the dry spots are under the saddle. I would want to feel if there seems to be extreme pressure or no pressure. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | cheryl makofka - 2014-02-25 8:25 PM Canchaser1587 - 2014-02-25 8:10 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-25 2:00 PM Move the tugs of your breast collar down to the D rings of the saddle and get you a longer roper style mohair cinch 2 inches longer than the one she is wearing .. Your breast collar is pulling downwards on the swells the way she is tacked up right now. To place the saddle in your photos ... find the top of her shoulder blade and place your finger tips on the back side of it ... move your saddle so that the conchos are even with your finger tips and cinch her up. (the bars of the tree start right under the conchos) This will assure you of not restricting her shoulder blade movement and that the saddle is sitting in the 'sweet spot' right at the back side of her withers. Chasing dry spots is futile ... feel what you think is a dry spot for moisture and if hair is laying flat and not ruffed up and all you are seeing is a little more saddle pad wicking the moisture away .... a lot of times people forget their older saddle pads can become permanently compressed where the bars of the saddle are ... sometimes a good washing and rinsing will uncompact them or you need a new pad ... I would not be concerned unless the cantle of the saddle is raised up when cinching her up or flopping up and down when you are riding ... GOOD LUCK ... What does it mean when the hair on the dry spot if ruffed up? I'm having that issue with one of my horses. IMO to me the saddle is not making constant pressure causing the hair to be ruffled. I have had this happen on a few horses who have very straight backs and Kelly kaminiski saddle and Lisa Lockhart saddle. I ordered a crown c with flat bars, my problem went away. New horse is having problems with the 10inch gullet regular bar, but the 11 inch flat bar doesn't cause the effect. I would say this is worse then dry patches
Ruffled hair is much worse than large dry areas. It means the saddle is twisting (probably too narrow) and will sore your horse up. |
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest | FlyingJT - 2014-02-26 10:56 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-25 1:24 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-02-25 12:26 PM What Brian and Tracy taught me about their saddle is to have the saddle sit behind the shoulder you need to have the riggin farthest forward so the cinch will be in the right spot, and by the picture you have the rigging in the centre. I would try to move the rigging forward and the saddle back an inch or two as it looks like it still could be on the shoulders. I would also take the pad off put the shims on then feel underneath the saddle and make sure the pressure is even When you move the rigging all the way forward, then you have too much pressure pulling down on the very front, IMO. Mine is moved back, yet my saddle is still behind the shoulder standing still. I don't see how you can ride one far enough back for the shoulder blade to not come under the tree when they reach. Well it doesn't really move the saddle that far back because the shoulder blade is designed to move down and back not straight back, if that makes any sense. I have found the farthest back is about 1.5inches behind the blade when the horse is standing square. By having the saddle behind the blade there is no weight on top of the blade causing stress, because in movement the blade is going back when the horse isn't bearing weight on it. (as the leg comes up the shoulder blade moves ) By the time the leg is bearing weight the shoulder blade is out from underneath the front bars on the saddle. The bars on the saddle need to be curved to allow the scapula to move underneath them without interfering. I don't know if I am close to understanding saddle fit, but I have found that this seems to work well for me and this is about as much as I understand of it. If I'm wrong please correct me maybe I can better understand it.
Agree! This is why saddle makers are now making trees with flare in the front part of the bars. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | SG. - 2014-02-25 10:47 PM SoonerLawyer - 2014-02-25 6:46 AM I took a pic last night of her without the shim, with the Relentless 3/4" pad. I haven't gotten one without the saddle yet (it was dark when I got done riding). I also threw one in of her without the saddle. It's not great, but it's as far to the side as I can find right now. This saddle looks like it doesnt sit level. as in front it down and back is up which tells me the front is too wide
I agree.
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| Canchaser1587 - 2014-02-25 8:10 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-25 2:00 PM Move the tugs of your breast collar down to the D rings of the saddle and get you a longer roper style mohair cinch 2 inches longer than the one she is wearing .. Your breast collar is pulling downwards on the swells the way she is tacked up right now. To place the saddle in your photos ... find the top of her shoulder blade and place your finger tips on the back side of it ... move your saddle so that the conchos are even with your finger tips and cinch her up. (the bars of the tree start right under the conchos) This will assure you of not restricting her shoulder blade movement and that the saddle is sitting in the 'sweet spot' right at the back side of her withers. Chasing dry spots is futile ... feel what you think is a dry spot for moisture and if hair is laying flat and not ruffed up and all you are seeing is a little more saddle pad wicking the moisture away .... a lot of times people forget their older saddle pads can become permanently compressed where the bars of the saddle are ... sometimes a good washing and rinsing will uncompact them or you need a new pad ... I would not be concerned unless the cantle of the saddle is raised up when cinching her up or flopping up and down when you are riding ... GOOD LUCK ...
What does it mean when the hair on the dry spot if ruffed up? I'm having that issue with one of my horses.
It means your saddle is moving and scrubbing that spot or could be a dirty and/or permanently depressed spot in your saddle pad doing it ... |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Does the Gullet width in front effect how wide the bars are in the back? |
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| MS2011 - 2014-02-26 2:00 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-02-25 8:25 PM Canchaser1587 - 2014-02-25 8:10 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-25 2:00 PM Move the tugs of your breast collar down to the D rings of the saddle and get you a longer roper style mohair cinch 2 inches longer than the one she is wearing .. Your breast collar is pulling downwards on the swells the way she is tacked up right now. To place the saddle in your photos ... find the top of her shoulder blade and place your finger tips on the back side of it ... move your saddle so that the conchos are even with your finger tips and cinch her up. (the bars of the tree start right under the conchos) This will assure you of not restricting her shoulder blade movement and that the saddle is sitting in the 'sweet spot' right at the back side of her withers. Chasing dry spots is futile ... feel what you think is a dry spot for moisture and if hair is laying flat and not ruffed up and all you are seeing is a little more saddle pad wicking the moisture away .... a lot of times people forget their older saddle pads can become permanently compressed where the bars of the saddle are ... sometimes a good washing and rinsing will uncompact them or you need a new pad ... I would not be concerned unless the cantle of the saddle is raised up when cinching her up or flopping up and down when you are riding ... GOOD LUCK ... What does it mean when the hair on the dry spot if ruffed up? I'm having that issue with one of my horses. IMO to me the saddle is not making constant pressure causing the hair to be ruffled. I have had this happen on a few horses who have very straight backs and Kelly kaminiski saddle and Lisa Lockhart saddle. I ordered a crown c with flat bars, my problem went away. New horse is having problems with the 10inch gullet regular bar, but the 11 inch flat bar doesn't cause the effect. I would say this is worse then dry patches
It means your saddle is moving and scrubbing that spot or could be a dirty and/or permanently depressed spot in your saddle pad doing it ... |
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 Cinnamon Honey One
Posts: 6549
Location: between here and there | FlyingJT - 2014-02-26 5:20 PM
Does the Gullet width in front effect how wide the bars are in the back?
Traditionally, the gullet is 1/2" wider in the back than the front. Now, that may not be true anymore. you should have about 4 fingers width on any gullet tho to bridge over the spine. |
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