|
|
 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
   
Location: Montana | The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too). |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | mtcanchazer - 2014-03-22 11:02 PM The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too).
Yep, that's exactly what Obama wants as well. He wants more people like you to want socialized medicine/single payer. This is his goal. |
|
| |
|
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-22 11:19 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-03-22 11:02 PM The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too). Yep, that's exactly what Obama wants as well. He wants more people like you to want socialized medicine/single payer. This is his goal.
I'm not ready for socialized medicine. I'm use to being able to go get the best healthcare available in the world. In Obama's world it's time for me to get a pain pill instead of being able to get something fixed. |
|
| |
|
| What the good Doctor is saying is true yesterday .... and is spot on with his carefully worded warnings ...
by all the inputs even the democrats are saying there are going to be sharp increases 2-3X over and beyond the original price releases. ... Not to mention the increase in drug costs and the HUGE DEDUCTIBLES that prevent you from using the insurance .... and we are not talking about $1200/year we are talking $300 to $1200/month.... everyone thinks getting insurance for a previous disease etc is great ..... have you seen the monthly cost for them ... like $6000 per month ... drugs not included ...
and expect the penalties and fines to be retroactive because the president cannot change a law without congress approval ... he never put anything in writing .... everyone just accepted whatever he said ....
It is a mess and poor Doc is sitting right in the crosshairs of anything and everything that comes crawling out of the 2700 pages no one has read yet .... everyone has just been reading the index and the mission statement on the front page of Obamacare ....
We still have city, county and state health departments that do nothing for your health ... they are now paper pushers. IMO wasted talent and money!!
Back in the 50's and 60's when I was a kid and before starting 1st grade .... the county nurse would come to my older brothers and sisters schools and line the kids up and give them shots ... even the 3 polio shots before pills were invented... ... all they had to do was put my name on the list and I rode the school bus to school with them and got all of the required shots for free .... even the dreaded smallpox shot with the little blue candy looking thing on the needle spot ... lol ... and yes ... I stayed at school all day following one of them around to their classes without a problem but was welcomed by all the teachers and principles at the schools ... it was a community type endeavor ... and your county tax money did something and had a purpose ...
I think anyone reading this thread feels like you are constantly being attacked by all of our taxing authorities in one way or another ... and now the big bad wolf attacks as AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE .... always fear when the government sez ... we have come to help you!!
*************************************************************
NEXT STEP EVERYONE MUST HAVE ...>>> ... Government taking over your home insurance because you live on a mountain top and do not have flood insurance and your car insurance since your tires and windshield wipers are not insured ....
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-03-23 3:33 AM
|
|
| |
|
  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Medicaid is not free. Neither is medicare. Nothing like jumping out of the fry pan into the fire. Obama health care has to go PERIOD that is the BEST solution. Nothing is for free. I had insurance but thanks to Obama care 600 employees were dropped the first few months I was hired on, I thought they were reorganizing but Obama Care forced them out of business so they were sold. They kept me on I was doing the job of 15 people to keep the lines running. I tore my back muscles ripped my shoulder muscle, have carpel tunnel in the same arm/ shoulder. I also had the same leg broke twice and currently have a screw backed out of my ankle in which the screw is rotating on every that it can touch. Yep in a very bad place. I so HATE that SOB and his plans. HITLER at best. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | cow pie - 2014-03-23 11:30 AM Medicaid is not free. Neither is medicare. Nothing like jumping out of the fry pan into the fire. Obama health care has to go PERIOD that is the BEST solution. Nothing is for free. I had insurance but thanks to Obama care 600 employees were dropped the first few months I was hired on, I thought they were reorganizing but Obama Care forced them out of business so they were sold. They kept me on I was doing the job of 15 people to keep the lines running. I tore my back muscles ripped my shoulder muscle, have carpel tunnel in the same arm/ shoulder. I also had the same leg broke twice and currently have a screw backed out of my ankle in which the screw is rotating on every that it can touch. Yep in a very bad place. I so HATE that SOB and his plans. HITLER at best.
Obamacare is fairly new - in that short time you tore your back muscles, ripped your shoulder muscle, have carpel tunnel in your shoulder, broke your leg twice, a screw is backed out of your ankle in which the screw is rotating on every..... I don't think this is the fault of Obamacare but a unsafe work environment... |
|
| |
|
Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-22 10:19 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-03-22 11:02 PM The unfortunate deal in our family (we have our own business/self-employed, never had health insurance) is the that the cost of the penalty (even at the 2.5% a year) will be less than the cost of Obamacare for us. And we can't afford other health insurance either. We've always paid medical bills...usually on the spot, but we also try hard to take good care of ourselves because we can't afford medical bills. From what I have heard, I think I want Canada's healthcare plan (and maybe government too). Yep, that's exactly what Obama wants as well. He wants more people like you to want socialized medicine/single payer. This is his goal.
Don't get me wrong, we would be just peachy if there was no penalty and there was no Obamacare...we'd prefer it that way. We just can't afford Obamacar...the penalty is less for us.
When saying I like Canada's healthcare system, it isn't the socialized part I care for so much as the affordability. We have relatives in Canada, and the way they are running their country (and medicine) up there must be working for them because they are a prosperous nation. I'm not saying that it is by any means perfect, and I'm sure I don't know or have all the particulars, but perhaps America should take notes on the good parts. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
Those naughty insurance companies sure have good lobbyists - don't they??
Don't know what the answer is and when I ask those who froth about evil Obamacare they don't seem to have a answer either. I just know as a taxpayer who has insurance I am tired of footing the bill for the uninsured who come to my local hospital. Some of the blame goes to local counties who don't want to pay reimburse my county for their residents.
I know of 3 people (real people not someone featured on the news) who have been paying out of pocket for insurance. They have signed up for the Affordable Health Care and got better coverage for less money. So for those people I hope this works and hope more uninsured will use it to get coverage. I also hope that Congress will get off their duff and try to fix any problems that need to be fixed. |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
Let's get some facts straight, my friend. Let's not take your word for it or mine. Listen to what Reagan said about socialism, liberalism, and socialized medicine back when he was a Democrat, over 50 years ago. Before anyone wants to draw conculsion on what Reagan said about socialized medicine, listen to this. Keep in mind this was when he was a Democrat. Once you have listened to his words, then I challenge anyone to tell us where he was wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrlDlrLDSQ
|
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | yipyap - 2014-03-23 1:54 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Those naughty insurance companies sure have good lobbyists - don't they??
Don't know what the answer is and when I ask those who froth about evil Obamacare they don't seem to have a answer either. I just know as a taxpayer who has insurance I am tired of footing the bill for the uninsured who come to my local hospital. Some of the blame goes to local counties who don't want to pay reimburse my county for their residents.
I know of 3 people (real people not someone featured on the news) who have been paying out of pocket for insurance. They have signed up for the Affordable Health Care and got better coverage for less money. So for those people I hope this works and hope more uninsured will use it to get coverage. I also hope that Congress will get off their duff and try to fix any problems that need to be fixed.
So, you use those 3 anecdotes to bolster your support of ObamaCare?
Try this on for size: 6.2 million people were booted off the insurance they wanted. They were kicked off because of ObamaCare. If you are honest when you say you are "tired of footing the bill", then what the heck do you call ObamaCare? If you are sincere when you say you are "tired of footing the bill for the uninsured", then what do you call socialism? Can you please clarify?
Oh, and I am one of those people who "froth about evil ObamaCare", but I do have answers. A LOT of alternatives have been laid out there but people like you just keep saying nobody comes up with an alternative idea to fix our healthcare system. Liberals keep saying there have been no alternative proposals, and they have been lying.
|
|
| |
|
 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM
If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
Ahhh....Did you forget the 500 million that Obumer and Nancy took from medicare to fund this C@^& Law. And your history is wrong the Insurance Industry wanted no part of this law. They only came on line when the Dem's bribed them with bail outs. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 111
Location: Austin, TX | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-23 2:25 PM yipyap - 2014-03-23 1:54 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Those naughty insurance companies sure have good lobbyists - don't they??
Don't know what the answer is and when I ask those who froth about evil Obamacare they don't seem to have a answer either. I just know as a taxpayer who has insurance I am tired of footing the bill for the uninsured who come to my local hospital. Some of the blame goes to local counties who don't want to pay reimburse my county for their residents.
I know of 3 people (real people not someone featured on the news) who have been paying out of pocket for insurance. They have signed up for the Affordable Health Care and got better coverage for less money. So for those people I hope this works and hope more uninsured will use it to get coverage. I also hope that Congress will get off their duff and try to fix any problems that need to be fixed.
Try this on for size: 6.2 million people were booted off the insurance they wanted. They were kicked off because of ObamaCare. If you are honest when you say you are "tired of footing the bill", then what the heck do you call ObamaCare? If you are sincere when you say you are "tired of footing the bill for the uninsured", then what do you call socialism? Can you please clarify?
Oh, and I am one of those people who "froth about evil ObamaCare", but I do have answers. A LOT of alternatives have been laid out there but people like you just keep saying nobody comes up with an alternative idea to fix our healthcare system. Liberals keep saying there have been no alternative proposals, and they have been lying.
I said I knew 3 people who had experience. That is all. If you know over 6 million who had a bad experience than you overwhelmingly have more personal knowledge. I guess I need to make more friends as I am 5,999,997 short.
I don't know why you are asking me about socialism. I restricted my conversation to my paying for the uninsured medical visits but did not expand on their total economic situation. And I realize that some individuals are not able to pay but am not comfortable with leaving them on the side of the road. I hope that clarifies my discussing ones ability to pay a hospital bill versus a total social and economic system (i.e. socialiam is one variation).
As far as the alternatives, be sure and write your Congressman with those suggestions and perhaps he/she can spearhead a effort in Congress to push that through. I said that individuals I discuss this with had no suggestions but I have never talked to "people like you". So be sure and contact your Congressperson with those alternatives. |
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Only 1 in 10 who have signed up for the ACA were previously without insurance, the rest are ones that had insurance and it was cancelled or they chose the ACA insurance. It's goal of getting the uninsured affordable insurance has failed. We are in the same boat of ER as the doc for the uninsured, everyone is just paying more for it. |
|
| |
|
 I Love My Mares!
Posts: 1613
Location: Moved to Montana | Something needs to be done about what a joke insurance is. We had a baby via c section this year so we should have actually made use of our policy. Nope it would have been cheaper to save the premium money and pay ourselves by about 5 grand. Madness especially when you add in my employer is paying part of the cost and we still spent more in coverage than we used |
|
| |
|
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The basic problem in our healthcare system is that it costs too damm much. That's really the problem. Americans want to fix what's wrong, while preserving what's good. So, in essence, we all want to provide the best possible quality (including accessibility) at the lowest possible price. Socialism doesn't accomplish this. Under socialism something is sacrificed. This is why we are seeing a growing movement toward privatization in Canada, Great Britain, and other European countries. If you look it up, that's what you will find. Everyone agrees that healthcare is too expensive. Logical, thoughful people can come up with a lot of solutions, but the problem is that, like so many other problems, it has become a political football. Socialized medicine the cause celebre of the liberal progressive movement and ObamaCare is the lynchpin. The vast majority of people in this country do not like it at all. Unlike other liberal causes, this is something that has hit virtually everyone, and for most in a very negative way. This is why Democrat incumbents have been veering away from Obama and ObamaCare like rats off a sinking ship. By design we are seeing employers drop healthcare benefits, and we are seeing other negative effects such as the trimming down of a full time work week from 40 hours to less than 30. If ObamaCare is left unchecked, all those "evil insurance companies" will slowly drift away, paving the way for the intended consequence of only one remaining option: pure socialized medicine. Obama himself outlined that this is his goal and his plan. There's no mystery here.
Any serious effort to fix the system would have to encorporate the best way possible to lower the cost: free markets. Until the people themselves are able to pick and choose their healthcare, we will never really have a market driven system. This is why I like HSA's where monthly, tax-deductible deposits can be made into HSA's, and people can choose where and how they spend their HSA money, when needed. Large, catastrophic healthcare costs can be covered with catastrophic insurance that can be purchased for a fraction of what people spend for insurance now. Money is a powerful motivator, and people will quickly realize they can leave their HSA money alone where it can grow, if they make healthy lifestyle choices.
If a 25 year old stays healthy he won't have to spend much money from his HSA and by the time he is 40 he has a pretty sizable chunk of money socked away, just like an IRA.
Add to that certain things like torte reform, etc....
That's just scratching the surface. We don't have to copy Canada or Great Britain. They are trying to copy us.
|
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| and the ACA does nothing to address the high cost of health care. |
|
| |
|
 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | jd&ez - 2014-03-23 11:00 AM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money.
The majority of recipients pay in their entire working life...for a pittance of what is invested...this includes social security. With that said, it's highly doubtful that these same people would have planned/saved for their retirement without government intervention...my only question is, "What part of personal responsibility do people not understand?" It's terrible that we find ourselves in this mess, but, what's worse are those who see an opportunity to manipulate it in their own favor ie. politics.
Follow the money...it's not just insurance companies...it's anyone with their hand out, including those who feel that "I pay it & so should everyone else...there outta be a law".
What is the alternative? Death, I guess. For many.
I want to point out that for many of those 'indigent' folks there are huge corporations that have trust funds set up (yup, it's a 'hated tax break') that cover most if not all of those costs. And whatever happened to the Shriners? You know, those 'rich' people who donate to helping children all free of charge. I'll tell ya...they can't compete with our gov't welfare. Sad but true.
The heart of America has been ripped out by hatred, jeolousy, envy and class warfare...capitalism works & what we're now trying to become has failed over & over...it will fail again. Capitalism built this nation, greed of the individual who thinks "I have a Right" is tearing her down.
The reason so many were opposed to medicare is now in our face.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | jbhoot - 2014-03-23 2:26 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Ahhh....Did you forget the 500 million that Obumer and Nancy took from medicare to fund this C@^& Law. And your history is wrong the Insurance Industry wanted no part of this law. They only came on line when the Dem's bribed them with bail outs.
I mdidn't forget about it because it didn't happen. That's insurance companies propaganda. The supposed "cuts" were funding restrictions to Medicare Advantage companies. They are already costing us 15% more than original medicare.
Yeah they are going to get less and they should get less. Isn't that your point as well? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-23 1:54 PM jd&ez - 2014-03-23 12:00 PM If we are going to have national healthcare it would work better as a single payor system.
Medicare was a single payor system until the MMA of 2003. Wanna guess who was President then? The Medicare Moderization Act brought private insurers into the medicare system. You can only get a part D Rx plan from a private insurer. They made part C, Medicare Advantage plans private as well.
The insurance companies sold congress a bill of goods on how they could provide medicare better and more cost effective since they were better run. Baloney!! They might be better run but once they take their profits the medicare advantage program now costs the taxpayers 15% more than original medicare. Obama has said they need to get down to at least the same cost as original medicare to continue the program and that's where you hear the insurance companies whining and crying about the "cuts" to medicare.
Medicare may be socialized medicine? But it works and you won't find seniors willing to give it up. In fact, you can give it up. You do not have to take part B nor pay the premium to part B if you don't want it. over 95% of eligibles take part B. About the only ones that don't are people with VA coverage and don't feel they need it.
Of course the naysayers were just as opposed to medicare when it was implemented as they are about so called Obamacare. Ronald Reagan was calling it socialism. That is until he was president. Then he vowed to protect it to the very end. Funny how things change.
When Clinton wanted to implement national healthcare he wanted single payor. The insurance companies ran a smear campaign and funneled millions and millions into defeating it. They won. The people lost. Now they included the insurance companies and that's how it got passed.
The insurance companies now are the ones running the scare campaign against single payor. Why? Same answer as everything, follow the money. Let's get some facts straight, my friend. Let's not take your word for it or mine. Listen to what Reagan said about socialism, liberalism, and socialized medicine back when he was a Democrat, over 50 years ago. Before anyone wants to draw conculsion on what Reagan said about socialized medicine, listen to this. Keep in mind this was when he was a Democrat. Once you have listened to his words, then I challenge anyone to tell us where he was wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrlDlrLDSQ
Reagan was against medicare in the 60"s. he changed his tune once he was president.
His differing takes on medicare were purely political. But he never had an original thought anyway. I always thought he would be the worst president of my lifetime. I was wrong. W made RR look much better. |
|
| |
Folks on-line