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Location: KS | For the last two years we didn't vaccinate all of our horses for west nile, only the "good" ones. Last fall a 3 year old healthy mare, not stressed for any reason and I don't think she'd been ridden for at least 2 months prior, come down with west nile. I WILL NEVER skip west nile vaccines on anything on our place again. We were lucky and caught it early, started treating before the test results came back positive. We were able to keep her up and I gave her all the shots at home, the vet only had to come out for 3-4 days and tube DMSO. Aside from the very healthy vet bill, watching her have so much trouble about killed us. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Amy is correct, Dr Depaulo (sp) has a wonderful article on over vaccinating. I encourage everyone to speak to their vet about this. I did. My vet also agrees that we are over vaccinating and he explained with horses there is more research showing regularly vaccinated horses are more prone to developing inflammatory airway disease.
The reason is the horse breathes in the spores, the memory cells in the trachea call the white blood cell troops to come and attack. All the white blood cells come to attack the spores causing inflammation in the airway.
Horses breathe in these spores all the time not and don't usually come down with the disease, but vaccinated horses everytime they breathe in these spores there is a full on attack which causes inflammation.
For people who do this to keep the disease off of their place, you can still bring in on through the dirt on your boots, horses feet, your clothes, etc.
I had horses 2 years ago that were vaccinated come down with rhino at a stable. All my equipment had to be removed and into quarinteen for 2 months, my horses were removed and placed in a segregated pasture with no horses within 10 miles they were there for 3 months. Vet said there are many different strains of rhino just like the flu, and the vaccine only covers the most prevalent when they developed the vaccine. The vaccine strain has never been updated.
The strangles vaccine there are more complications with the vaccine then with the disease. The vaccine can cause an autoimmune problem with multi organ failure. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I vaccinate every 3 years - this was the year. Two horses became lethargic, temps, and no appetite for 3 days after, I am now rethinking my decision to vaccinate. I have not done much research on it so I unfortunately don't know the in depth pros vs cons. If anyone has some articles(Cheryl approved-she's an articles worst nightmare) I would love to read up about it. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | My horses are vaccinated and none of them are sickly or compromised because of it.
I give vetera gold + rabies. I don't do strangles, but if there was an outbreak I would do it.
I wouldn't compare the immune systems of horses to dogs or cats or people. I wouldn't even compare dogs and cats. physiologically cats and dogs are very different.
I am a vet student, I am pro vaccinating- people, dogs, cats, horses, food animals, etc. There is more risk with vaccinating cats than horses, so if I were to choose to not vaccinate an animal, it would be a cat, because of injection site sarcomas.
I do have a feeling that vaccine protocols can and will change in the future. The more we get into drawing antibody titers, the more we can cater our vaccination needs individually to the animal. It makes sense to me, if the animal has adequate antibody levels, why vaccinate?
Also, each virus or disease we are vaccinating against has different durations of immunity. Some viruses in certain species provide immunity for YEARS. Others have a very short term immunity. you can't blanket vaccines and diseases and species of animals- they are all different. |
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | Cheryl thanks for posting that! I have seen more horses with airway/allergy problems over the years! The ones I have seen with the most difficulties and the vaccinated ones. The last time I vaccinated a puppy it had full blown allergy issues and was very sick!!! I have not vaccinated her since and she goes everywhere and has not been sick since. But like I said before if people just have to be old school and vaccinate then do boost the immune system and give probiotics it sure helps the horse out!!! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | amy laymon - 2014-04-02 10:31 AM Cheryl thanks for posting that! I have seen more horses with airway/allergy problems over the years! The ones I have seen with the most difficulties and the vaccinated ones. The last time I vaccinated a puppy it had full blown allergy issues and was very sick!!! I have not vaccinated her since and she goes everywhere and has not been sick since. But like I said before if people just have to be old school and vaccinate then do boost the immune system and give probiotics it sure helps the horse out!!!
Supplementing them appropriately around vaxing time makes a huge difference. I've seen this in my kids as well, using a product called Vaccishield, which contains immune supporting nutrients and a heavy dose of probiotics and digestive enzymes. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| We vaccinate every year. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I vaccinate every year. My isurance policies won't cover mortality caused by WNV if the horses were not vacinated. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | I do every year. It's going to be $43 this year plus rabies because the vet has to give rabies vaccs up here. I do not do strangles because of the issues with the vacc and I do not feel the benefit from the vacc makes up for the rest of it. To me it's cheap insurance. Yes, it adds up beings I have 5 horses to do but honestly it's a heck of a lot cheaper than treating one of these diseases or losing one/all of them. No it's not 100% effective but I would feel like crap if I didn't vaccinate and they got it. |
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Grammar Expert
| Nope, nothing. Saves money, healthier horses. Same with my kids and my dogs. Herd immunity is an unproven theory based on one herd of cattle and is very misunderstood. |
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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Everyone @ the boarding facility is required to vaccinate yearly as some are coming and going frequently and we try to keep the herd free of contaminants. If one gets it seems like they all do... I don't disagree that the rabies yearly is most likely over kill as they could titer them and see if its still @ the correct level.
On the topic of West Nile I will always vaccinate against it! We are surrounded by a river and have a pond in our pasture. A broodmare contracted it during her pregnancy and it was absolutely horrible to watch her suffer- She would literally be dripping with sweat and go down for hours @ any given time- Thankfully she delivered a completely healthy colt and has recovered, but I won't ever risk seeing that again. |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida | amy laymon - 2014-04-02 9:31 AM Nope never vaccinate. I have had more issues with vaccinated horses and a horse can fight illness as long as they are healthy and have a strong immunes system as well as you and your household pets. I haul all over the country and take pets all over and I had broodmares and foals and never worried about it. It is a healthy thing to get an illness and then you have a natural immunity. For instance West Nile. Most people if they had a horse tested would find it alreay had west nile at some point and now they have a natural immunity. Its like getting the flu in a healthy animal. The ones that die are the ones that are stressed, sickly, a weakened immune system. So if you vaccinate you are doing so needlessly and actually doing your horse more harm than good. I am an all natural guru and have listened and studied a ton on the ill effects of vaccines. Since I train and ride outside horses I sometimes have to vaccinate at a customers request. I guarentee you the ones vaccinated have the most problems and illnesses. They just seem to have a messed up system. I always say if you just don't believe this then at least learn about taking proper precautions when you do vaccinate. Always give probiotics ( the good kind with billions of CFU) and boost the immune system while you do so with some immune building herbs etc. Especially west nile. Last year I gave a mare the west nile for a customer that has insurance on the horse and it had problems for six weeks after. Swollen legs, body condition went down hill, she had allergy issues galore!!! I know that the Dr Deapolo (SP?) has info on vaccines to do if you think you have to and also www.headskaking.com tells a little about over vaccination. My 3 yr old I own has never had a vaccination and I was going to maybe do a tetanus ( I should that one) and if they are young and the skunks are about a rabies. But rabies only needs done about every 3 to 5 yrs and tetanus a booster if they get a bad cut. I have super healthy horses and I went to OKC and AZ and many horse around were sick all of mine are healthy!
Ditto above. I never vaccinate anything (for many, many years). Very healthy horses, strong immune systems, haul everywhere, stay overnight, etc.. My horses lived with chickens that all tested positive for West Nile for over a year. None of the 7 horses contracted it. A horse down the road from me nearly died from West Nile; he was vaccinated for everything.
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | FirstFirewater - 2014-04-02 6:43 PM I have a question. Are the horses that have come up EHV1 positive vaccinated yearly horses or are they unvaccinated?
That's something I asked on a thread a week ago and no one answered me. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-02 6:46 PM
FirstFirewater - 2014-04-02 6:43 PM I have a question. Are the horses that have come up EHV1 positive vaccinated yearly horses or are they unvaccinated?
That's something I asked on a thread a week ago and no one answered me.
well I deleted my post due to reading about it wAs it's a virus that from what I am aware herpes in humans can lay dormant for years and flare up at certain times. So I'm thinking horses are similar. I would truly love to know the answer to the question though if someone knows |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Nope, if you are in question pull a titer. |
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Location: Big Blue Skies | I talked to vet about it and this was his response. Drug companies are the ones that suggest the vaccine schedules. He said he had his rabies shot before vet school and many years later checked his titer levels and he still had plenty of antibodies. If you are on the fence I would suggest pull bloodwork to see their levels. I used to do vaccines every year and do not anymore. I still give shots but do not do it every year. And I give them weeks apart not all at once. I do not believe it is good to suppress their immune system that much. |
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Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | As one poster said a mare was in foal and got west nile and got over it. Most will. And if you do vaccinate you still have as much of a chance to get it as the unvaccinated ones because in my opinion they don't work its just what we have been programmed to do Vets are finally wising up, or at least the one that really study and are progressing, that more and more people are aware of the harmful effects of vaccines. The ones that give 5 way and 6 way shots I feel are out to make money there is to much evidence that is nothing but horrible on an immune system! The last 6 way that was given in my care the horse was literally falling over for two days it scared the crap out of me. She had a bad reaction the year before and the owner gave her another shot and the same horrible reaction. I could go on and on about vaccine problems from way back. That is why I quit doing this to my animals about 14 years ago now. It is much safer and smarter to just let them build their own immunity to disease. And I let my kids play in dirt up to their eyeballs.
Thought I would add if you are giving Rhino it sure makes that herpes that does lie dormant rear its ugly head. Make sure to supplement A LOT of lysine. They will be overly reactive to everything, skin crawls, and they act explosive and hot. You know the looney kind that like to pull back and act like a bronc. If you vaccinated keep that in mind. |
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 Dr. Ebay
Posts: 8507
Location: Land Of Oz | I do rabies and tetnus. That's it. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | I don't.. The last time I vaccinated anything was when the first "West Nile Craze" came around.
My horses are healthy. They have all been exposed to strangles at one point in their life, so built up a natual immunity to that. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| We don't vaccinate anything around here. Super healthy horses and dogs. No major sicknesses or near death experiences. I find most of the horses that do get vaccinated are more liable to get sick, and I have seen friend's horses that have had TERRIBLE reactions such as swelling, hives, and even a death from the strangles vaccine. |
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