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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
  
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | Sounds like stacking the deck and not very good sportsmanship. But...if there is no rule against the practice...well...not much can be said. But...I'd probably not go have a beer with that rider any time soon. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
 
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | clover girl - 2014-08-14 12:59 PM It honestly doesn't matter to me one bit. If a person thinks that bottom vs top of the ground will make that much difference at a barrel race (rodeos are different) then they are crazy. The only time top of the ground has an advantage is if you have a really little horse, or you run the opposite way as everyone else in the drag. I have a lefty and it does suck running after 4 or 9 right handed horses an you run against the tracks at 3.
If you have a list of horses, and they need to be ran in a certain order meds, buddy sour, warm up time, ect then a person should be allowed to each horse its best chance to make a good run. Some producers and random draws do not take that into consideration. 
Everyone is assuming that people do it to get better ground. I've done it myself but not for that reason--it was when I needed my horses to be in a certain order, but the random draw of a particular producer didn't allow for placing them in order. I haven't entered multiple horses in a decade, but it was common practice then, Equistat wasn't an issue, and no one thought anything of it. If there isn't a rule against it, it's not cheating. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | osu_barrelracer - 2014-08-14 12:34 PM r_beau - 2014-08-14 12:03 PM I thought that you had to enter each horse by its registered name (for EquiStat purposes) and then run that horse when that particular horse got put in the draw?
I don't see how they would even let you enter a horse named "Horse #1"??
At least around here at our local jackpots and NBHAs, every one enters a horse/rider combination and then that is what gets put in the draw.
You could bring it to the attention of the show committee. Then they could decide if there were any rules against what she is doing. Leave it in their hands.
Entering them with their registered names helps track their earnings. However, a lot of people run grade horses, so you're gonna get a lot of those, as well as some people who don't care about tracking their earnings on a horse and just enter it by their barn name.
But still, if you've got a grade horse named "Larry" you are going to write that down when you enter.
.... Not "Horse 1".
That's not a barn name.
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | r_beau - 2014-08-14 1:34 PM osu_barrelracer - 2014-08-14 12:34 PM r_beau - 2014-08-14 12:03 PM I thought that you had to enter each horse by its registered name (for EquiStat purposes) and then run that horse when that particular horse got put in the draw?
I don't see how they would even let you enter a horse named "Horse #1"??
At least around here at our local jackpots and NBHAs, every one enters a horse/rider combination and then that is what gets put in the draw.
You could bring it to the attention of the show committee. Then they could decide if there were any rules against what she is doing. Leave it in their hands.
Entering them with their registered names helps track their earnings. However, a lot of people run grade horses, so you're gonna get a lot of those, as well as some people who don't care about tracking their earnings on a horse and just enter it by their barn name.
.... Not "Horse 1".
That's not a barn name.
You don't run around with many ropers do you? LOL. With some of them, you're lucky if a horse has any name besides Bay, Sorrel, Gray, or Paint.
I do agree that you should be able to stipulate which horse runs first if you're running more than one, but I also think each horse should be entered by his or her name, be that a barn name or a registered name. They draw up where they draw up and you make the best of it. I've had rodeo secretaries tell me my draw position and act sorry about it if its 13, 14, 15 so bottom of the ground, but I tell them that I'm gonna run when they call my name and try to be as fast as I can. Worrying about my spot on the ground is pointless because I can't do anything about it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Being a devils advocate here ...
It is not cheating if there are no specific rules against it. Just because I know how to work the system to the best of my advantage, whatever the reason, doesn't mean I'm a cheater.
No, it is not particularly nice when people take advantage of it, but mount up and run. I came, I paid my fees, lets compete.
MHO. |
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  Veteran
Posts: 161
Location: Oklahoma or who knows maybe trucking ? | Yes that is cheating, but that is the only way some people can win. Lol. And still that can't win first. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 359
Location: MS | I have seen this done numerous times. There is one girl in particular who does it that sells horses for a living. I saw her run a certain horse at a barrel race then she put him up for sale. She used one of the other horses times to use as this horses time. She was advertising it as a 1/2d horse, but really its a 4d horse. It really stinks, because she ran one horse one day then swapped the next. Its not fair at all. |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | If its not in the rules, not cheating. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | amberturner4 - 2014-08-14 3:30 PM
I have seen this done numerous times. There is one girl in particular who does it that sells horses for a living. I saw her run a certain horse at a barrel race then she put him up for sale. She used one of the other horses times to use as this horses time. She was advertising it as a 1/2d horse, but really its a 4d horse. It really stinks, because she ran one horse one day then swapped the next. Its not fair at all.
That's WAY more dishonest/shady/wrong than doing it just to move horse order around. I don't really like the moving around horses either, but reordering is just playing to your advantage. Swapping times is just flat wrong. |
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Location: stumbling around BHW | It is also done when someone is training multiple horses and does not know which two or three they may be taking with them for one reason or another...horse hurt, horse coming along at home better than another....orders may need to be run in certain orders because of tack changes, warm ups, help getting horse in alley....its a multitude of things that could actually play into a decision to do that. It may very well be that a rider rides the push horse first and the free runner last for their comfort or vise versa...
edited to say: its no big deal to me, we all run on the same pattern and run against the same horse, does not matter where they run....I have seen horses win at jackpots and rodeos on the top and the bottom of the ground...The best horse that day is gonna win no matter where they run..just go make YOUR best run and HAVE FUN.
Edited by msrockinrhard 2014-08-14 3:44 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1114
Location: Mo. | It's only cheating if it's stated in the rules that you have to name the horse. Otherwise... I'd call it staking the odds in her favor.
I'd say something to the person running the race (if they have a comment box---comment---have your friends comment) In the meantime
you will have to be gracious with someone who knows how to work the system. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Frodo - 2014-08-14 10:35 AM It's cheating plain and simple. If you have one good horse only and draw the bottom of the ground, you had no opportunity to put your best horse on the top of the drag. People who pull the numbering horse BS are manipulating for the best ground for their 1D horse because it's highly unlikely they're all 1D horses. You don't need a college degree to figure this scam out and producers shouldn't let it happen.
Wholeheartedly agree. Well said. |
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Location: stumbling around BHW | svincent - 2014-08-14 3:37 PM
amberturner4 - 2014-08-14 3:30 PM
I have seen this done numerous times. There is one girl in particular who does it that sells horses for a living. I saw her run a certain horse at a barrel race then she put him up for sale. She used one of the other horses times to use as this horses time. She was advertising it as a 1/2d horse, but really its a 4d horse. It really stinks, because she ran one horse one day then swapped the next. Its not fair at all.
That's WAY more dishonest/shady/wrong than doing it just to move horse order around. I don't really like the moving around horses either, but reordering is just playing to your advantage. Swapping times is just flat wrong.
THIS GARBAGE IS TOTAL BULL, and should not happen, maybe when a person gets there they should have to add horse's name goes for horse 1 , horse 2 ect. That would resolve that part of the problem
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| roxieannie - 2014-08-14 3:34 PM If its not in the rules, not cheating.
If you dont get caught it isn't stealing either, right? |
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 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | CheckItOut - 2014-08-14 8:49 AM
A trainer around here enters all of her horses at barrel races as Horse 1, Horse 2, Horse 3, Horse 4... etc... and I notice her good horse is always coincidentally running at the top of the ground. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that she is not naming her horses on the entries in order to get the position in a drag that best suits each of her horses... not just at small town jackpots either, I'm talking at barrel bashes and big added money barrel races. I just think that is pretty lame, and why are there not rules to handle stuff like this? Especially at bigger barrel races? Surely she is not the first one to figure out how to work the system this way. Just curious if there are rules anywhere that outline this or if this is just something everyone brushes aside and is not worth making a big deal out of?
This kind of thing ticks me off! |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I don't find it to be cheating at all. If there isn't a rule then how is it cheating? Also I am there to do my best no matter who is there and on what horse or in what position of the draw they run. What someone else does at a jackpot does not effect my run.
I also know it is nice to know which horse you will be on first and by putting Horse 1, Horse 2, etc you get to decide who to run and when. That way tack changes, warm up plans, etc are much easier. I know around here most producers allow the riders to say which horse they want to draw up on first but some are not quite so nice about it. If I have 4 horses to run I want to know which ones need to be saddled and warmed up right away and sometimes the draw is not posted/announced enough in advance.
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Whiteboy - 2014-08-14 3:46 PM roxieannie - 2014-08-14 3:34 PM If its not in the rules, not cheating. If you dont get caught it isn't stealing either, right?
Ummm that doesn't even make sense. You are still taking something that is not yours and there are laws against that. Putting your horse's name as Horse 1 is not cheating if there is not a rule against it. It is just a way of making things simpler on the rider. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Its an OPEN barrel race. It is NOT cheating in my opinion. WHat if she enters 4 and all of them are at the bottom of a particular drag? She can't move them anywhere can she? |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | msrockinrhard - 2014-08-14 1:41 PM
It is also done when someone is training multiple horses and does not know which two or three they may be taking with them for one reason or another...horse hurt, horse coming along at home better than another....orders may need to be run in certain orders because of tack changes, warm ups, help getting horse in alley....its a multitude of things that could actually play into a decision to do that. It may very well be that a rider rides the push horse first and the free runner last for their comfort or vise versa...
edited to say: its no big deal to me, we all run on the same pattern and run against the same horse, does not matter where they run....I have seen horses win at jackpots and rodeos on the top and the bottom of the ground...The best horse that day is gonna win no matter where they run..just go make YOUR best run and HAVE FUN.
I'm fine with that as long as the switch is designated before the actual race starts. I've entered one and then had to switch before but at least I wrote a name down. |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | msrockinrhard - 2014-08-14 1:46 PM
svincent - 2014-08-14 3:37 PM
amberturner4 - 2014-08-14 3:30 PM
I have seen this done numerous times. There is one girl in particular who does it that sells horses for a living. I saw her run a certain horse at a barrel race then she put him up for sale. She used one of the other horses times to use as this horses time. She was advertising it as a 1/2d horse, but really its a 4d horse. It really stinks, because she ran one horse one day then swapped the next. Its not fair at all.
That's WAY more dishonest/shady/wrong than doing it just to move horse order around. I don't really like the moving around horses either, but reordering is just playing to your advantage. Swapping times is just flat wrong.
THIS GARBAGE IS TOTAL BULL, and should not happen, maybe when a person gets there they should have to add horse's name goes for horse 1 , horse 2 ect. That would resolve that part of the problem
I think they should get fined/DQ for that. This totally irks me! |
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