|
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM
And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere.
There are not many horses that buck for other reasons then soundness.
Generally it is a training problem then, or you do have one of the few that is a dirty buggar.
My opinion the dirty ones need to be canned, too many horses that are bred nicely, good conformation that don't buck.
From your first post you said he only did it in the arena, now you are saying he does it even on the trail. From the example you gave on the trail, he is being disrespectful, and I would say a training issue.
The only way to see if the horse will get over it is wet saddle blankets, but if this horse has had over 60 days of riding, he should have quit bucking | |
| | |
 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | y_do_i_do_this - 2014-08-25 11:39 AM be very careful........I have found even if I do get a horse past issues like you mention, i never trust them and it's hard to be confident when you know it's always a possibility.
As far as exercises......I would have him very tired before I ran barrels on him. Wear him out and maybe he will feel like working instead of goofing.
ditto, as in sweat dripping, tired....they buck on me once and they better be ready, because IF I survive, they might not think they are going to survive. It is one of the habits that I DO NOT tolerate from any horse, no matter how "great" they are. My extremely spoiled, super nice gelding will hog a little in the spring and he will have spur marks on him by the time we are done.....no patience for that type of attitude even if you can interpret it as "fun" | |
| | |
 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | I had one that was a little cold backed.. never knew when he was going to attempt anything. Until the day (seemed like to the day) he turned 6 he was this way, but then never again after that. Every time he tried me, I would just set his butt in the ground and make his feet move. Around in circles, backing up, reverse arcs, even sometimes just lighting him up with my over/under.. something to let him know he was in trouble. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| cheryl makofka - 2014-08-25 3:39 PM SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere. There are not many horses that buck for other reasons then soundness. Generally it is a training problem then, or you do have one of the few that is a dirty buggar. My opinion the dirty ones need to be canned, too many horses that are bred nicely, good conformation that don't buck. From your first post you said he only did it in the arena, now you are saying he does it even on the trail. From the example you gave on the trail, he is being disrespectful, and I would say a training issue. The only way to see if the horse will get over it is wet saddle blankets, but if this horse has had over 60 days of riding, he should have quit bucking
I realize it's a training issue or that he is a dirty bugger. That is why I am asking for exercises to see if I can get through the issue.
The trainer that he was at didn't ask for speed; the horse doesn't get excited just loping around on contact. He gets excited with the more forward lope/hand gallop/loose rein/exciting things. As the speed is coming along, and he feels more comfortable going faster, that is where he is getting excited and wants to be a turd.
So, that is why I am asking about exercises that I can do (TRAINING) to see if he improves with this TRAINING issue.
I understand wet saddle pads will definitely help. But I don't want to just ride him into the dirt before every competition either. I want to work productively on the issue. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| "My opinion the dirty ones need to be canned, too many horses that are bred nicely, good conformation that don't buck."
My horses are my horses for life, no matter. He won't be sold. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. | |
| | |
  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | This is a tough subject for sure. OP, I do understand and I do know what it's like to be willing to try anything. My colt will run in the pasture as hard as he can go and kick over his head at a dead run. We have nearly patented the phrase "buck, fart, side-kick" as that is all he does....I have owned him since he was a weanling. This colt has always run everywhere he goes and bucked and kicked while doing it. He's just a feel good kind of horse. He has never blatently bucked with me before, even when I first started riding him after we brought him home from the race track, and there are some days I gave him good reason to. As we progressed, he got really nice and broke really quickly and was working a pattern handily after about 60 days. I cruised him through at home once a week or so. Took him to his first exhibition and he was so happy to be there. Ears up, paying attention, excited to be there. Didn't spook at all, went in and worked, and did one little crow hop about a stride or two after the third barrel. I sat him down and got his attention and that was it. Next time going to exhibitions he was more fussy. Not high or watchy, but just anxious. Diarrhea, etc. I wanted him to ease through and he wanted to go on a little bit, but I didn't let him. I held him and no humping up at all. Gave him a day off and started back on Monday. Took him out back and warmed him up....WELL. Loped a half mile both directions and long trotted a half mile both directions. Put his boots on and went to make a run, and he worked perfectly, and then tried to get at about where the time line would be.....were I started to pull up.
So all that being said.....training, maybe, but I think my program is working fairly well. Pain.....maybe, but only if it was ulcers, which id definitely could have been. Back girth.....maybe, I did take it off because he's always a little sensitive through the flank. He hasn't bowed up and bucked like that before or since and may never do it again, but it did scare me. So i'm baby stepping it right now. I really think he has developed some ulcers and that was the biggest thing. But I admit that I now ride him with something I can get his head up with and something I have a tinge more control.
| |
| | |
Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I like the comment that even though you gave him a chance to buck, he didn't! From my experience, those horses that buck during the pattern tend to have a few things in common.
1. They are usually large personality types-some happy, some not!
2. They are fed too well-look like a million bucks and feel that way too
3. When they buck, they do not get reprimanded to within an inch of their life and as they progress their bucking gets harder and stronger
4. The riders are usually pretty dang quiet, don't get too excited or kick too hard, you might set off "precious"
5. There is usually an excuse for lameness being an issue (which,surpisingly you do not have that excuse-which is great)
6. There is a large sum of money involved when buying/training the horse and therefore the horse isn't going anywhere-will just make her into a broodmare (I ask with that crappy attitude-not me!)
All in all what I'm getting at is put A LOT of miles on YOUR horse, become the boss, not the tag a long!! Bucking is not right, show your horse, do not wimp out or laugh it off-this is a serious deal, in the right situation you could be watching the dirt coming up to your body at a high rate of speed. I would even say round pen work is in order-respect get it. I've said before when my "precious" gets too full of himself he gets his legs worked off-that's loping a ton of circles-if you don't like that-I don't know what to tell you-some horses need it! You know what-my horse is 11 this year and with minimal warm up he is a charm! They do mature, they do age, but if you don't fix this, your horse isn't going to mature!! And will probably get worse!
Edited by LMS 2014-08-25 3:42 PM
| |
| | |
 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| If you have a track that you can use... I'd have a friend pony me as fast as is safe to do so. He just may not know HOW to really run with weight on his back. When we first start the race horses that is what we will do. We put a rider on the new (young) horse and pony him around the track at a breezing type speed.
WHat some of seem to forget is running with weight on your back is way different than just walking or jogging. | |
| | |
Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| Or race him up a long sloping hill. I have yet have a horse that can buck hard running UP hill.
Don't get me wrong I know they can still buck and crow hop but my experience is not hard. | |
| | |
| I know you probably do not like LMS's answer, but I TOTALLY agree with her. I'm sorry. The truth hurts. And I have been there. It's hard to accept giving up on one and moving onto another.
Please do not get hurt. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | If he's getting crow-hoppy, whip his butt out of it. If he's breaking in 2, move on. I could never trust them. | |
| | |
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere. This is so very true. If you've ever watched grand prix show jumping you know horses don't always buck out of pain! Sorry, I don't have advice, I've just ridden a few that were, like your horse, buckers when they got excited. They just didn't do it very hard at all so it was easy to ride out.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2014-08-25 11:55 PM
| |
| | |
 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I guess for me... I try and identify why they are bucking. A friends horse bucks out of excitement and another friends horse bucks out of lazyness.
So I think their training approaches need to be different. The mare who bucks out of excitement needs to be sad down hard and have a little come to jeses moment and then made to WORK and WORK hard! Because shes bucking to run which pushing them through it just encourages it (I think). Wheras, a horse who bucks because their looking to get out of work, will benefit by being pushed through it because thats not what they want. Push through it and dont let them rest for awhile.
I dunno if that makes sense. | |
| | |
Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I have had several horses do,that when you start to get speed. make sure that they are not fresh. Most of,the time when they buck it is,usually when youmare teaching them to gather thenselves at the barrels. Once you get after then a couple of times they stop it. Sometimes i,would lope circles and lope big faster circles like reines do.
| |
| | |
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Mine would do it when he was fresh. He's the type that likes having job. If he gets time off and goes back to work, he will buck soem little ones, "like WOOHOO! I'm doing something, yay!"
He also does it when the weather first turns cold in the fall. He doesn't do it on the pattern, just when riding in general. He did do it once or twice on the pattern as a young one and soon learned that was a poor choice. He's not mean or a dirty bucker, he's playful. He doesn't break in two, he hops around and maybe throws one good one.
When I first got him, I'd one rein him around to get him to quit, than lope circles till he was too tired to buck (some days this was dripping sweat mind you), then ride him a little more and quit on a good note. He learned that the bucking was not only unwanted, but it also led to a lot of boring and tiring busywork.
He's older now (17) and rarely does it now- pretty much only if he feels real good, it's cool, he hasn't been worked in a while, and he's feeling real froggy. I basically yell "hey, knock it off" if I feel him hunchy, and he quits... but I've also had him 10 years now. He's just goofy but has a good heart. He's a "forever young" in spirit type. :)
I realize I rambled a bit but hope my story helps ya. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM
I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice.
Making excuses for him?
I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me.
That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful.
As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| stayceem - 2014-08-26 1:32 AM
I guess for me... I try and identify why they are bucking. A friends horse bucks out of excitement and another friends horse bucks out of lazyness.
So I think their training approaches need to be different. The mare who bucks out of excitement needs to be sad down hard and have a little come to jeses moment and then made to WORK and WORK hard! Because shes bucking to run which pushing them through it just encourages it (I think). Wheras, a horse who bucks because their looking to get out of work, will benefit by being pushed through it because thats not what they want. Push through it and dont let them rest for awhile.
I dunno if that makes sense.
This makes sense! The reason I pushed him through it on Sunday was because I felt like if his feet were moving faster forward, it would be more difficult for him to get them off the ground in the upward direction (although I've seen him in the field before without a rider and he can buck pretty good even when going wide open!)
It was my go-to at the time, and he DID stop after a few strides. But at home (see above post) when I try the sprinting exercise in the ring, if he bucks, I'll put him right to work on some circles, rollbacks, etc. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-26 8:00 AM star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. Making excuses for him? I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me. That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful. As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work.
Good! I am glad that helped you! Maybe over a bit of time you can extend the distance you let him sprint out and by then he will know to settle back into an easy gallop / lope as soon as you ask. I am going to do more of this too!
I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that! | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| star1218 - 2014-08-26 9:30 AM SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-26 8:00 AM star1218 - 2014-08-25 4:24 PM I think you are making a lot of excuses for him BUT I tend to do the same. With that said, something you could try would be transition work. Lope him, trot him, stop, back, trot, lope, extend the lope, soften back to slower gaits and then smooch him up again. Let him open up in very short bursts and ease him down. Keep it very controlled. Maybe this would help him see it as work and not a free-for-all runaway situation.
IDK horses like this tick me right off and I've got something similar I deal with so I should take my own advice. Making excuses for him? I see it as the opposite, the only "excuse" he has is that I think he's just being a dink. I know he needs to be WORKED, other than just riding the p*ss out of him until he's ready to keel over, I was wondering if there were any training exercises that would help me. That being said, I did the exercise you describe last night...loped on contact up the road, then would kiss and squeeze to sprint him faster, then I would bring him back down to either a controlled lope on contact or a trot, and then I would kiss and push him into a sprint. We did this quite a few times and after the 3rd or 4th time, he was sprinting without issue. Definitely wanted to GO! but with his ass down where it belonged! I think this exercise will be very helpful. As far as working that exercise in the arena, my plan is to NOT set up a pattern, but instead lope him and randomly ask for the sprinting, and then bring him back down, sprint, then back down. I think the randomness of this exercise will help him figure out that it doesn't matter WHERE I'm asking him to sprint in the ring, it's still work.
I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that!
"I didn't mean to offend by saying you were making excuses for him - I just meant like you said - If he is being a dink there should be no excuse for that!"
^^^AGREED! I wasn't sure what you meant, not offended! I was like "wait, I'm not blaming it on this, that, and the other thing, how am I making excuses for him?!" LOL! If anything, I am saying he has no excuses because we've ruled out everything other than his personality/attitude! HAHA! Honestly it would be easier if it were something physical, because then we could fix it and be on our way! Working the bucks out is much harder when that's just who they want to be!  | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line