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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
  
Location: Sunny So Cal | Marquis treatement and then a bag of THE EPM formula. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
 
Location: South Central Florida | Animal Element has a treatment. I used that and Rebalance. ReBalance is basically an old timey treatment, only available from vets or with a script, but it worked GREAT for us and was so much more afordable. I pay $80 per bottle and the first time we did 3 bottles. Since then we do it once a year but we have had no reoccurrances. Almost every vet said no matter what treatment you go with, you need to retreat periodically as it never really goes away...just gets under control. We also feed extra Vit. C, and E. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Honestly, i think there is not a lot known about epm. Not sure why horses seem to relapse. Not sure what drugs are best. As, my horse rested by the uc davis test neg/neg. Thenvet has not,called me back as i called and they got results told to,fax them to me. i did call the lady in fl and she said her test was more sensitive. I got 2 red top tubes from my dog vet and am willing to spend the 38.00 to see. But he is getting worse not fast but he is and i saw them do the nero test and know that him being ridden is not safe. He is not being mean, but he sulls up if you ride him for more than 15 minutes. I have shown him 2 times both overnight shows, i would longue him and then take him imto holding pen and get some one to lead me in. He just looked like he was barely balking. Most people think i am just too nice too him. Beating will just get into a pissing match. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I just say if you think your horse has epm read everything you can good and bad. You can get a lot of info. My horse is not that bad but i can run him any longer for both of our saftey. i saw then do a neruo test and i realize that one leg has no,stength and i thought about it if he falls with me i could get hurt. But his bloodwork came back fri fri uc davis and vet has not called me back so i called dr. Ellison. I went by dog vet and got the red top tube and will pull blood tomorrow. But o some of the blogs i read that someone had taken a horse to the same clinics that i had been too and they got them to talk to dr. Ellerson. I went right to the horses mouth. One thing i did notice there where several on blogs that critisized dr. Ellison. But not one thread or blog did i see where her treatment did not help. Not saying it is a cure all. And a few horse did have a relapse, but after retreating they got better. So i guess i am glad of the way things happen for a reason. I usually dont get along with geldings, but this guy is so sweet and he is a very talented horse he just cant show it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 897
Location: Glendive Mt. | I have used the Oriquin 10 and had great results as well as a friend of mine. Far better then anything out there. You also get more support people in your corner. I would never use anything else. I hope to never need to. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I talked to vet at pathogenes yesturday, went by the dog vet got blood tube will pull and send it today. She said her test is more sensitive that uc davis test. I have read anything other than drug companies advertisment and still looking. Most of information is before 2008 not much after. But i read blog after blog, that the horses pathogenes has treated most of them have been like the above posters treat and horse gets better, and treatment not costly. I read one that they had taken there horse to the same two clinics and got the vets to talk to,dr. Ellerison, in fla. I had the bloodwork taken at vets last monday and sent off to,uc davis and results came back fri. Called they said no vet in, so i called yesturday ask my vet to call me back, no call. i will just send my sample off today and they will call me back.. I have a friend that is a nurse all the way back she is telling listen to the vet, get the good stuff dont scrimp. What she said monday, i know your horse has epm, it just makes sense. Problem, i have listened to vets so far expecting them to know more than i do, and last time just did not feel right, that vet should have just told me i dont know. She has been unsure from the get go as the first time i carried him last year she kept sayimg he is not sore enough, and kinda called him a wuss. He was not a wuss when he would not ride, and last year this time i decieded that i would kinda stay on him and make him sore enough to find it. He would just sull and and refuse to go toward the arena. He is 16.1 and is a bestiful mover. I even let other people ride. He had been not just right for over a year, i had him chiroed and what she said he was jacked up in right hip. That is where his weakness is. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 555
Location: Puky midwest | Merve Williams in Weatherford Texas 1-800-657-8714 |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Make sure you get him on a immune builder. I had a mare that had EPM. The vets told me to make sure she was on an immune builder. A weakened immune system is one thing all EPM horses have in common . |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| This may sound like a crazy question but has anyone's horse started having symptoms soon after being sedated for any procedures like dental work? I agree with Daisy, the more I learn, the more confused I get but this year has been a b**ch for me when it comes to EPM. Never had a horse with it before this year. I have had 3 now. One is a big colt that had some visible neuro symptoms the way he walked in his hind end. The more I rode him, the worse he got in that he would ride pretty good the first 10-15 min, then get to where he didn't want to move and he would get stiff to one side. Had vet do lameness exam and no lameness issue but he noticed this horse almost seemed numb from the shoulder back like he can't feel much. You could jab him with a spur or something and he would barely react if at all We did not test him but we treated him with a compounded sulfa drug with very slight results. My 2nd horse to have it is a nice barrel mare. Only "symptom" was she got really spooky about things that never bothered her before and she would feel like she was stumbling behind the barrels or struggling to handle the ground. Three good vets all looked at her and we did some injections but they were adamant she could not possibly have EPM because she was so sure footed and strong, etc.....After an episode/fit she had in the trailer pressing her head, etc.... (totally out of character for her) I took her back to the vet and insisted on testing her for everything possible and they scoped her. She had a bad case of ulcers but she also tested positive for EPM with high titer #'s. Treated her with Marquis and she is back to her old self, very sure footed, smooth lead changes, no spookiness, and thank God. I had also been saying for the past year this mare is just not quite right but the vets couldn't find anything in multiple visits. I'm using very well known high profile equine vets too.
Horse #3 here is a rodeo horse that is a hard runner and turns. For months he has "stumbled and/or slipped" way too often behind the barrels. Again vets have done lameness exams on him a few times and found nothing. I had his teeth floated the end of June and he started going up the fence at the first barrel.....a WTH moment for sure. I thought the dentist screwed something up. Anyway, he got progressively more stiff to the right even when just exercising him so back to the vet we go and checked his mouth, tooth by tooth, etc....and nothing is wrong in his mouth. I insisted on the vet watching him trot and lope with me on his back instead of the usual trotting off type exam. The vet starts to see him not traveling as coordinated. So I get off and he crossed this horse's hind legs. Horse never moves them. Did it twice and he stood there in a real awkward position like he didn't know it or couldn't feel his legs. yes WTH!!! Trotting off in straight lines and pulling his tail sideways, he was very weak in hind end and had very little resistance to the tail pulling so now treating him with Marquis too. The vet told me to continue with training and that stress is NOT a factor. Either the drugs work or they don't but he does recommend treating for 2 months instead of one. The 2nd month we will use a pharmacist compounded drug that is far cheaper than Marquis. The vet told me that after treating with Marquis for 2-3 weeks, the horse will already have shed off 80+% of the protozoa causing the EPM. They do not take the expensive race horses out of training that test positive for it. They start treatments and keep them in training.
I am sadly bewildered at how many horses are having EPM, like an epidemic. My horses graze in a huge pasture and when they come in to be fed, their rubber feed tubs are cleaned out daily before dumping their feed in there so I know there is no bird or possum feces in their feed tubs. I'm convinced there is some other way it is being passed on to horses that we are not aware of. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| The Protozoa have to have a way to break the blood membrane barrier. The immune system being compromised is one way. Ulcers are another. So I would always use a immune builder and ulcer product when I horse is diagnosed with EPM. I
had a horse that was diagnosed and we treated with herbal and then every 3months would use the herbal wormer. Kept her on immune builder and ulcer preventative. Never had a reoccurrence. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The high profile vet that did the bloodwork for my horse it came back negative. I dont know why he will not call me back, but in the meantime, i sent bloodwork to pathogenes as she said her test was more sensitive. Cant hurt, i need to find out what is wrong with my horse. My horse is like the ones above, went from working well to being sullly and now when he runs you can see the difference in front strides and back strides. From what i read, a lot of times epm horses get labeled stifle horses. I think from the mild symptoms you see a lot of horses that have back problems, and other unexplained lamness problems may have this. I have been on the internet reading and most of the stuff i read was older before 2008. Not much new and what is goes to dr. Ellerson in flordia and is like the post test ans treat and it is from average people who are like us trying to,find a answer. i think epm is like lyme disease not a lot known. I have also read that some of the treatments have only 60% recovery rate. I have also read that sometimes horses will test negative multipule times and when they die test csf (spinal fuild) and have protoza. I know they have found 2 different bugs. Maybe there are more that will not test. There are a lot of unknowns and a lot of affected horses. my horse had more than one problem, he had ulcers making him humpy also he had fusing hocks now there are no problems left, but the vet last monday,was the only one out of 5 to do,neuro test. But it started with horse nubbing off his back toes last year. I will find an answer with out spending tons of money. I been thru that. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | quickdraw - 2014-09-23 8:20 AM This may sound like a crazy question but has anyone's horse started having symptoms soon after being sedated for any procedures like dental work? I agree with Daisy, the more I learn, the more confused I get but this year has been a b**ch for me when it comes to EPM. Never had a horse with it before this year. I have had 3 now. One is a big colt that had some visible neuro symptoms the way he walked in his hind end. The more I rode him, the worse he got in that he would ride pretty good the first 10-15 min, then get to where he didn't want to move and he would get stiff to one side. Had vet do lameness exam and no lameness issue but he noticed this horse almost seemed numb from the shoulder back like he can't feel much. You could jab him with a spur or something and he would barely react if at all We did not test him but we treated him with a compounded sulfa drug with very slight results. My 2nd horse to have it is a nice barrel mare. Only "symptom" was she got really spooky about things that never bothered her before and she would feel like she was stumbling behind the barrels or struggling to handle the ground. Three good vets all looked at her and we did some injections but they were adamant she could not possibly have EPM because she was so sure footed and strong, etc.....After an episode/fit she had in the trailer pressing her head, etc.... (totally out of character for her) I took her back to the vet and insisted on testing her for everything possible and they scoped her. She had a bad case of ulcers but she also tested positive for EPM with high titer #'s. Treated her with Marquis and she is back to her old self, very sure footed, smooth lead changes, no spookiness, and thank God. I had also been saying for the past year this mare is just not quite right but the vets couldn't find anything in multiple visits. I'm using very well known high profile equine vets too. Horse #3 here is a rodeo horse that is a hard runner and turns. For months he has "stumbled and/or slipped" way too often behind the barrels. Again vets have done lameness exams on him a few times and found nothing. I had his teeth floated the end of June and he started going up the fence at the first barrel.....a WTH moment for sure. I thought the dentist screwed something up. Anyway, he got progressively more stiff to the right even when just exercising him so back to the vet we go and checked his mouth, tooth by tooth, etc....and nothing is wrong in his mouth. I insisted on the vet watching him trot and lope with me on his back instead of the usual trotting off type exam. The vet starts to see him not traveling as coordinated. So I get off and he crossed this horse's hind legs. Horse never moves them. Did it twice and he stood there in a real awkward position like he didn't know it or couldn't feel his legs. yes WTH!!! Trotting off in straight lines and pulling his tail sideways, he was very weak in hind end and had very little resistance to the tail pulling so now treating him with Marquis too. The vet told me to continue with training and that stress is NOT a factor. Either the drugs work or they don't but he does recommend treating for 2 months instead of one. The 2nd month we will use a pharmacist compounded drug that is far cheaper than Marquis. The vet told me that after treating with Marquis for 2-3 weeks, the horse will already have shed off 80+% of the protozoa causing the EPM. They do not take the expensive race horses out of training that test positive for it. They start treatments and keep them in training. I am sadly bewildered at how many horses are having EPM, like an epidemic. My horses graze in a huge pasture and when they come in to be fed, their rubber feed tubs are cleaned out daily before dumping their feed in there so I know there is no bird or possum feces in their feed tubs. I'm convinced there is some other way it is being passed on to horses that we are not aware of.
You mentioned a lot but I think opening the mouth is an excellent theory to possibly activation of EPM. I know when I had autoimmune issues my doctor would not let me have dental procedures done.
But when you mentioned grazing all day but eating out of rubber tubs with no feces- you do realize they are grazing all day in feces, right?? And if they drink from a pond- that is a live source as well.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1157
Location: southeast KS | No one has mentioned using Toltrazuril. Has anyone used it? |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | smashednred - 2014-09-24 12:41 PM No one has mentioned using Toltrazuril. Has anyone used it?
Yes, I used it on a mare between her futurity and derby year break. She came back much stronger than I thought she would. I ran her in the first go of the derby at San Antonio and her young owner ran her in the sweepstakes race that night. She blew the field away and I handed the reins over to the owner! Mare is still going strong at 18 years and running 20's in the poles. I consider her recovered.
I've used several mixes that are off label to help horses. I've used the same meds I've given my goats. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1157
Location: southeast KS | That makes me feel better! I am using it, about thru with treatment. I was recommended to follow up with ReBalance. I am seeing improvement. Had him riding out and ready to start, then he fell apart. Hoping to start legging him back up this weekend and finally get to start him. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| TurnLane, yes I realize feces are in the pasture and the stock tank. That is far beyond my control.....dang it!!! I have thought about that but I just thought it very strange that this horse made a sudden change for the worse within days of having teeth floated. I wish I knew more of the scientific things happening in the body when you sedate them and the chain reactions as a result. Yes I think too much and drive myself crazy trying to figure out WHY, WHY, WHY. It may be purely coincidental as far as timing.
I'm convinced there is more than one strain or type of EPM because 2 of 3 horses that had it here this year, had NO neuro symptoms even when the vets tried to do neuro "tests" like crossing legs, pulling their tail sideways at a walk, etc...Last fall I had a horse with a freak injury and several vets were involved that all told me I should treat him with the cheaper EPM meds though he was not neuro. He just wouldn't get fat and bloomed out and his hair looked dead. The vets said there is "something" the EPM meds is getting though they do not know what it is......maybe an unidentified parasite. So I treated this horse and sure enough he put on tons of weight, especially along the topline, and his hair got very shiny and healthy looking. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| My gelding just started dragimg his,toes. Callled local vet, said to imject hick/stifles, we did no better. ! Went om avout 6 6 weeks carried to another vet. Said i had ulcers gave a,month break with meds. !went to,another show horse,srill had problems. Went to, another vet, still had hock/stifle problems. Had hock /stifle problems, vet said do,shckwave. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The above poster is on the right track as i think that there are several bugs that cause some of these problems, and theynjust dont know how to test. The vet called me last night and since test came back neg he was saying it could be this or that one of which is lyme and told him i wpuld not trailer my horse 2 hourse to pull blood. He said something maybe he could have some back issue, we might do a test with some rebaxin and previcox for a week see if he is better, as he wanted to,do more xrays of back. I am not spending money for guessing. But when i was there he was adament and it was his first guess about epm. But the other test will be back soon. If that comes neg. Have to refigure. But i have read stories that horses test negative and when horse dies they get spinal fluid and there where protzoans in it. Just like 10 years ago navicular was a death sentence now we know more and there are more options. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | My mare relapsed on epm last week. My vet spoke to the Pathogenes vet and in addition to another round of treatment she also recommended to give her some Quest Plus wormer... |
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 I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | This is all super helpful to me. Had one diagnosed yesterday with EPM. We are waiting for the test to come back from UCDavis. What a year it has been trying to figure this out........  |
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