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 Go For It!
   
Location: Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-11-05 6:58 PM
I think most of the big producers in Texas basically go off the same pattern for their shows so I think it would be easy to get some of them on board.
You would leave the standard pattern as is and would be pattern #1 or A. You then downsize from there. I can't see as this being to hard to implement as all producers mark their arenas and write down the dimensions.
I was told that NBHA pretty much uses the same size pattern for their Super Shows no matter what the size of the arena. I was told they do it so they can get x amount of horses through in x amount of time.
We have some big producers on this site so why don't we ask them their opinions and if they would go for it?
I wish we could tag them, lol.
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | fatchance - 2014-11-05 5:09 PM I think your going to want to leave out most of rodeo.
I think it could work for certain associations. BUT, (you knew I would have one) when you start saying the words World record your opening up a can a worms. When it comes to the record on the standard pattern it was run out here and there was a stink about it being different ground, different score....etc. Most indoor arena's have their dirt hauled in, if it's not the same dirt, times will show it. SO if a producer was going to do this I would think it would work if they held their shows at the same arena and could set a pattern and publish it.....also have a non participate measure and set the course.
For the record when I suggested this I was being a smart a ss, but if you want to try and get producers on board good luck. I think having the fast time of a rodeo and or show is the record for that day and that year and most feel that's good enough.
IMHO Not sure there is enough incentive to want to do it.
The Northwest runs mostly standard patterns and it is a great selling point. The days of buying a horse in your backyard is long gone. When I first was looking for a horse for our daughter that moved to AZ, in AZ was the first time I had someone tell me the horse usually runs between a 17.00 to 17.50 on a standard course or they would say they were a 2-D horse on a standard pattern. This was totally new to me since I was use to running on a small pattern.
I think this would be a great selling tool. I had a horse that ran 1-D on a standard pattern but ran in the 3-D on the smaller indoor Texas patterns. It would give a person a great idea of what a horse would do in their area if they knew what pattern size the horse was running on. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | grinandbareit - 2014-11-05 7:02 PM Nevertooold - 2014-11-05 6:58 PM I think most of the big producers in Texas basically go off the same pattern for their shows so I think it would be easy to get some of them on board.
You would leave the standard pattern as is and would be pattern #1 or A. You then downsize from there. I can't see as this being to hard to implement as all producers mark their arenas and write down the dimensions.
I was told that NBHA pretty much uses the same size pattern for their Super Shows no matter what the size of the arena. I was told they do it so they can get x amount of horses through in x amount of time.
We have some big producers on this site so why don't we ask them their opinions and if they would go for it?
I wish we could tag them, lol.
We can pm them or go to FB and ask them to come over here.
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-11-05 7:12 PM
grinandbareit - 2014-11-05 7:02 PM Nevertooold - 2014-11-05 6:58 PM I think most of the big producers in Texas basically go off the same pattern for their shows so I think it would be easy to get some of them on board.
You would leave the standard pattern as is and would be pattern #1 or A. You then downsize from there. I can't see as this being to hard to implement as all producers mark their arenas and write down the dimensions.
I was told that NBHA pretty much uses the same size pattern for their Super Shows no matter what the size of the arena. I was told they do it so they can get x amount of horses through in x amount of time.
We have some big producers on this site so why don't we ask them their opinions and if they would go for it?
I wish we could tag them, lol.
Great idea!!! You want to do it? :)
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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | Why would the producers or associations care if they help people market their horses? |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | RocketPilot - 2014-11-05 7:40 PM Why would the producers or associations care if they help people market their horses?
Because a lot of them are barrel racers themselves. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Nevertooold - 2014-11-05 5:11 PM fatchance - 2014-11-05 5:09 PM I think your going to want to leave out most of rodeo.
I think it could work for certain associations. BUT, (you knew I would have one) when you start saying the words World record your opening up a can a worms. When it comes to the record on the standard pattern it was run out here and there was a stink about it being different ground, different score....etc. Most indoor arena's have their dirt hauled in, if it's not the same dirt, times will show it. SO if a producer was going to do this I would think it would work if they held their shows at the same arena and could set a pattern and publish it.....also have a non participate measure and set the course.
For the record when I suggested this I was being a smart a ss, but if you want to try and get producers on board good luck. I think having the fast time of a rodeo and or show is the record for that day and that year and most feel that's good enough.
IMHO Not sure there is enough incentive to want to do it. The Northwest runs mostly standard patterns and it is a great selling point. The days of buying a horse in your backyard is long gone. When I first was looking for a horse for our daughter that moved to AZ, in AZ was the first time I had someone tell me the horse usually runs between a 17.00 to 17.50 on a standard course or they would say they were a 2-D horse on a standard pattern. This was totally new to me since I was use to running on a small pattern.
I think this would be a great selling tool. I had a horse that ran 1-D on a standard pattern but ran in the 3-D on the smaller indoor Texas patterns. It would give a person a great idea of what a horse would do in their area if they knew what pattern size the horse was running on.
I understand the move ( we moved a lot) because I researched it and started understanding the "science" of entering but lacking the understanding of the "holy grail". Seriously I know Texas tough and I know Washington tough. Leave it up to the producers, not the riders who "think" they can and or know. If you know, you know where to enter! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1273
Location: South Dakota | I like the fact there are lots of different size patterns and different scores. I think it mixes it up. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | I just can't think of anything negative about this. And for those who say don't do it... Why would it matter to you one way or another? If you don't want to use it as a tool, then fine, but why not be supportive of those who would really like it? It's just a barrel pattern. We aren't trying to change anything other than setting it a standard size according to the venue. All pluses.
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | I don't see anything wrong with it and I think it is a great idea.
You will still have different size patterns small to large. It is just a classification that lets you know at a glance how big the pattern was. I don't even own a horse at the moment, but it would sure be fun to compare times from this place to that place.
Granted there are variables, but those are the same variables with a standard pattern. People rarely mention that when they talk about what their horse runs on a standard. I don't think I have ever heard someone say "Gunner ran a 19 on a standard pattern, with new dirt, that was moist, humid day, about 90 degrees, facing the sun going to the 3rd barrel..." You get my point. People just say a 19 on a standard. People understand there are variables, but that is as close as you are going to get to a true estimate of what the horse will do.
If you don't care what "class" the pattern is... don't look and it won't matter. I think there are people that would use pattern classes that don't think they will.
You don't have to be selling or buying a horse. Say your horse only likes small pens, well that will narrow your search down when looking for a place to barrel race. "Oh don't want to go there that is an A class.... Rocket likes a D pattern. Here is one!" Then you can go on your merry way asking about ground etc. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 371
Location: California | grinandbareit - 2014-11-05 6:44 PM Come on guys… Let's look at the positives… You're in the market for a nice 1d horse and so you start looking online… You find several ads that look like they are what you may need. You check results, you don't know who the competition is that they are running against, you don't know what size the pen is, etc… Here is an example… Say someone says that they ran 1/10 faster than Hotshot at the jackpot - but they neglect to tell you that Hotshot fell turning the 2nd. Then they tell you that they consistently run in the 1d against people like so and so, but they don't tell you that so and so is on their new 3 yr old. What this system does is give you a medium to go by. It doesn't matter who is there or how tough or easy the competition is… This helps to keep people honest. You can always look up the results, see what pattern they ran on and how close their time was. Even the standard pattern isn't that accurate if you want to get nit-picky. And as far as the rodeos go, leave them out. It's already hard enough to get those suckers to do anything for the barrel racers anyway. The big barrel races and the smaller producers could get this done. It would be easy if everyone could see the benefit of it. There are plenty of people who would be against it too. Especially those that I mentioned above, because it would close some doors for them to be a little deceitful in their advertising. BUT, the fact is, more people look at 1d horses in the south than up North. You can get more money for a good 1d horse here than up there because down here they are known for running against lots of super tough horses. Just look at the last American… How great would it be to close that gap for those nice horses up North. Owners could sell them on their own without having to find someone to haul them down South, it would even the $ gap too… And believe me, that stuff happens quite often.
Love this idea!! Horse shopping is SO frustrating and this would really really help! |
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| Apparently no one ever reads the AQHA RULE BOOK .. they have patterns defined for small or large arenas by cutting the distance primarily from 1 & 2 barrels ... and even adjusting the 2 & 3 distance or the run back to timer line ... and can be called standard patterns if producer follows the guidelines ..
Your northern snow states have the smallest arena's due to the bad weather.
Southern states have more of the bigger outdoor and larger indoor arenas also due to good weather and indoors are used for other events that require more room ...
Just look at the part of the country horse has been running in and his times ... anyone looking for an expensive horse should know the arena size automatically from experience ... God help anyone that pretends to not know that 12-14 seconds is a modified workout barn or just a covered cowpen has to be joking ....
Sherry Cervi is a master at finding the small pens for her horses and makes the NFR with her specialized and knowledgeable decisions on where to run .... knowing she will end up running on a basketball court at the NFR ... LOL |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | We have a barrel race coming up in a couple of weeks that I think is going to be so much fun… They are setting up the NFR pattern in a small pen and advertising it as such. It's 2 goes, 4d format and short go, with a calcutta for each D. I entered just because I would love to see what my horses will clock compared to the NFR runs. I know that it's not 100% but it is still fun to see where you're at.
This system is basically the same thing… And talk about a great futurity tool. You can just look online and see where your horse is running compared to horses all over the country… Heck, all over the globe really. If they use the system in Brazil then it just opens up the market for all those horses too. And I'm betting that Brazil would be on board with it!
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 Hot Dispatcher
Posts: 10185
Location: Utah | Here in our area ( I am in Utah) the majority of our outdoor arenas are big enough for a standard pattern some of the indoor are big enough for a standard set. My soution is for all of you in the south to build bigger arenas  |
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 Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | I think this is an awesome idea. Everyone that is bringing up the variables that wouldn't make this system reliable are forgetting that we have those variables now in our D formats. Everyone knows ground, arena conditions, etc. vary. This would be able to give people a rough idea of their horse's caliber and give buyers and idea of what they're really getting. Living in the south and constantly running on small pens makes me love this idea because I can't ever reference a standard because we just don't have them around here. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1162
Location: White Mountains of AZ | We usually have the standard pattern out here in the White Mountain of AZ area. Occasionally they will make it a bit smaller, and sometimes they will make it NFR pattern. I'm not fond of switching it up so much. NBHA will have a double header and run the standard in the am, but at pm, they will set up a Vegas size pattern. It gets horses confused a lot of the times. But I like the A, B, C, D...pattern sizing. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | I like the idea. The hard part will be getting producers on board consistently.
On the issue of 1D horses on standard patterns. There are too many variables of what is a good time on a standard, ground conditions, alleyway or not, room to run home, etc. A horse may run a 17.0 at Pasco, but can barely break into the 17s at other arenas with the same pattern dimensions. All you can do when shopping for a 1D horse is try the horse, if you get along and it clocks 1D consistently in different arenas against tough competition, not necessarily numbers, but quality, then you are probably getting a true 1D horse. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| The short of this topic, people want more rules in barrel racing. More work for the host, as now they will have to measure prior to advertising the event this can even be a year in advance, so people can know what category the pattern will be.
What happens if the event advertises one pattern, but the arena changed the dimensions so the pattern will not be as advertised. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Anyone else noticed that now when producers are using laser stakes instead of ground stakes the barrel is set in the middle of the stake instead of at the lip of the barrel? So when I was at a barrel race a couple months ago and they say its set to a standard I don't see how it truly was a standard since the barrel was set on the stake differently. Makes a difference in my mind. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-11-06 11:10 AM The short of this topic, people want more rules in barrel racing. More work for the host, as now they will have to measure prior to advertising the event this can even be a year in advance, so people can know what category the pattern will be. What happens if the event advertises one pattern, but the arena changed the dimensions so the pattern will not be as advertised.
You're the one that is making it difficult.
A producer would have the dimensions of the different patterns and the day of the race would put one of them in place and when posting results would post what pattern it was run on. There would be no need for them to post what pattern their race would be run on. All producers have to go out and stake their pattern for a race. The only ones that would do this would be the same ones that care enough to send in their results to EquiStat. I don't think they would have a meltdown posting what pattern they used. |
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