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  Fact Checker
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Location: Displaced Iowegian | outrundaizy - 2014-12-16 9:17 AM Find a new one and move on.. I've been through a similar situation and once you find a forever farrier you will forget all about this. I would be more concerned that his wife is a vet and lets him shoe her clients horses. Find a new vet and farrier.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| snoopy - 2014-12-16 10:03 AM
Thank you for the replies everyone! I can prove he wasn't lame before I bought him because there was an extensive vet check done on him before I bought him from a very reputable person on this sight.
You would have to spend thousands and take it to court.
From what you wrote on the initial post was
The HORSE WAS SOUND WITH SHOES ON so depending on the vet exam, I doubt they would have pulled the shoes. Your words alone give doubt. I know a lot of horses that are only sound with shoes on, once the shoes are pulled the horses are dead lame.
You also said you had the shoes pulled, the horse was TURNED OUT ONTO FROZEN GROUND. You later back tracked and said the horse wasn't out long, and ground was flat, not frozen manure (this still surprises me as that is an awesome barn if they are picking the turnout pen constantly)
Since time has elapsed no X-rays were done immediately, no one will know what the cause of the lameness, as if it was a bruise, the initial bruise would be gone now.
You would need to have a well respected professional be able to prove it was caused by poor farrier workmanship, this will also cost you money and be hard to find since time has elapsed.
Also if you do try to sue this farrier, you will have difficulty finding another even if you won, as it is public record, and no farrier wants to be thinking their client is going to sue if something happens.
Also farriers are humans, not robots and yes mistakes do happen.
Don't get me wrong what happened to your horse sucks and hopefully no permanent damage is done.
As I said before if this was mine, I would have X-rays done immediately and followed my vets recommendation. I would have contacted my regular vet give my findings answer his questions, then proceed to him (4hrs one way) or closest vet possible depending on the vet recommendation.
I know you had to work and if I remember correct the farrier who did the work was close with the vet or married to. To me this does raise a flag on the vet, as if the farrier did make a mistake, the vet if married to, may have not done a thorough job such as X-rays due to fear of what she would find, or your husband or you didn't ask for, or wanted the exam to be cheap.
I work too and have had to pay transporters to take my horse to the vet if I cannot take the day off work. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The thing that went through my mind as I read this thread was I think it would be tough to be a farrier, even a good one. Nothing at all with the OP....just what popped in my head. I think farriers can be awfully bad sometimes, but on the other hand, I think there is a tendency with some people to blame the farrier for almost everything that goes wrong with a horse.
That said, I agree.....get a new farrier. LOL | |
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Fact Checker
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Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bear - 2014-12-16 10:42 AM The thing that went through my mind as I read this thread was I think it would be tough to be a farrier, even a good one. Nothing at all with the OP....just what popped in my head. I think farriers can be awfully bad sometimes, but on the other hand, I think there is a tendency with some people to blame the farrier for almost everything that goes wrong with a horse. That said, I agree.....get a new farrier. LOL
Being married to (and a mother of) a farrier......THAT is the truth! ANYTHING that goes wrong, it ALWAYS the farrier's fault.......OR they expect the farrier to work miracles!
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | NJJ - 2014-12-16 11:24 AM Bear - 2014-12-16 10:42 AM The thing that went through my mind as I read this thread was I think it would be tough to be a farrier, even a good one. Nothing at all with the OP....just what popped in my head. I think farriers can be awfully bad sometimes, but on the other hand, I think there is a tendency with some people to blame the farrier for almost everything that goes wrong with a horse. That said, I agree.....get a new farrier. LOL Being married to (and a mother of) a farrier......THAT is the truth! ANYTHING that goes wrong, it ALWAYS the farrier's fault.......OR they expect the farrier to work miracles!
Hence the reason so many farriers refuse to work for barrel racers!!! | |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | not only are you responsible for the care or possible xrays, to some extent you have to take responsibility for the entire situation. You pulled the shoes off a horse that was used to having them, and trimmed.
And i tell people to educate themselves on farrier work them watch their farriers shoe. When in doubt, ask questions. If you thought the shoe was too small, you could have talked to him about it.
My farrier is good, but we improved my 4 year old dramatically because of my suggestion on what to try. I ran my idea by him, he agreed, and it worked. Point is that more people should try working WITH their farriers.
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 Expert
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Location: MN | Bear - 2014-12-16 10:42 AM
The thing that went through my mind as I read this thread was I think it would be tough to be a farrier, even a good one. Nothing at all with the OP....just what popped in my head. I think farriers can be awfully bad sometimes, but on the other hand, I think there is a tendency with some people to blame the farrier for almost everything that goes wrong with a horse.
That said, I agree.....get a new farrier. LOL?
How do you expect me NOT to blame a farrier when this horse was not lame when he got here, and I didn't ask for a trim, I asked him to be cleaned up! You are making a huge generalization here when you say "some people" tend to blame their farrier. Your **** right I blame the farrier here, did this horse all of a sudden come up with warm feet for no reason? This horse is used to having his shoes off in the winter, I did all the research there was to do on him. And as for Cheryl, yes, I do board at such a good barn that the paddocks are picked that good!!! and he was never out there for hours at a time, people on here are the most judgmental people I have EVER come across in my life, If your not a regular on this board or part of a certain "clique" you jump all over someone instead of giving nonjudgmental advice, which is why the OP came here in the first place. No wonder there are not as many posts on this sight any more it's because of a whole bunch of people who like to hide behind the computer screen trying to knock someone down or ridicule them, instead of getting the advice they came here to get. I mean what kind of reply is "i agree..get a new farrier ...LOL?" Really?? yeah, I'll go with that, did any of you even read the entire post, where it states, I HAD A NEW FARRIER already come down and put larger shoes on? I'm NOT asking whether I should get a new farrier people!
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I was just answering that you would be responsible. For xrays.
I would seriously doubt that there is coffin bone rotation already in such a short time, but then I am no expert. Would it be possible to ask for photos of his feet? You can send them privately if you want
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Expert
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Location: MN | 1st time he was shod
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Fact Checker
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Location: Displaced Iowegian | snoopy - 2014-12-16 4:04 PM Bear - 2014-12-16 10:42 AM The thing that went through my mind as I read this thread was I think it would be tough to be a farrier, even a good one. Nothing at all with the OP....just what popped in my head. I think farriers can be awfully bad sometimes, but on the other hand, I think there is a tendency with some people to blame the farrier for almost everything that goes wrong with a horse. That said, I agree.....get a new farrier. LOL? How do you expect me NOT to blame a farrier when this horse was not lame when he got here, and I didn't ask for a trim, I asked him to be cleaned up! You are making a huge generalization here when you say "some people" tend to blame their farrier. Your **** right I blame the farrier here, did this horse all of a sudden come up with warm feet for no reason? This horse is used to having his shoes off in the winter, I did all the research there was to do on him. And as for Cheryl, yes, I do board at such a good barn that the paddocks are picked that good!!! and he was never out there for hours at a time, people on here are the most judgmental people I have EVER come across in my life, If your not a regular on this board or part of a certain "clique" you jump all over someone instead of giving nonjudgmental advice, which is why the OP came here in the first place. No wonder there are not as many posts on this sight any more it's because of a whole bunch of people who like to hide behind the computer screen trying to knock someone down or ridicule them, instead of getting the advice they came here to get. I mean what kind of reply is "i agree..get a new farrier ...LOL?" Really?? yeah, I'll go with that, did any of you even read the entire post, where it states, I HAD A NEW FARRIER already come down and put larger shoes on? I'm NOT asking whether I should get a new farrier people!
Regarding the statement highlighted...as a farrier's wife, I don't know what the h*ll you are asking for IF NOT A TRIM.....After reading through all of your rants, I do agree that perhaps the farrier trimmed him too short and then tried to rectify by putting on shoes (which apparently didn't work). But just a head's up, it doesn't take much of frozen ground (and, excuse me, but there is NO perfectly flat level "frozen" ground) or even small pebbles to give a horse bruises if they are tender footed.
eta: after seeing that picture....it was a pretty bad job of trimming too.....
Edited by NJJ 2014-12-16 4:28 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1258
Location: MN | NJJ - 2014-12-16 4:26 PM
snoopy - 2014-12-16 4:04 PM Bear - 2014-12-16 10:42 AM The thing that went through my mind as I read this thread was I think it would be tough to be a farrier, even a good one. Nothing at all with the OP....just what popped in my head. I think farriers can be awfully bad sometimes, but on the other hand, I think there is a tendency with some people to blame the farrier for almost everything that goes wrong with a horse. That said, I agree.....get a new farrier. LOL? How do you expect me NOT to blame a farrier when this horse was not lame when he got here, and I didn't ask for a trim, I asked him to be cleaned up! You are making a huge generalization here when you say "some people" tend to blame their farrier. Your **** right I blame the farrier here, did this horse all of a sudden come up with warm feet for no reason? This horse is used to having his shoes off in the winter, I did all the research there was to do on him. And as for Cheryl, yes, I do board at such a good barn that the paddocks are picked that good!!! and he was never out there for hours at a time, people on here are the most judgmental people I have EVER come across in my life, If your not a regular on this board or part of a certain "clique" you jump all over someone instead of giving nonjudgmental advice, which is why the OP came here in the first place. No wonder there are not as many posts on this sight any more it's because of a whole bunch of people who like to hide behind the computer screen trying to knock someone down or ridicule them, instead of getting the advice they came here to get. I mean what kind of reply is "i agree..get a new farrier ...LOL?" Really?? yeah, I'll go with that, did any of you even read the entire post, where it states, I HAD A NEW FARRIER already come down and put larger shoes on? I'm NOT asking whether I should get a new farrier people!
Regarding the statement highlighted...as a farrier's wife, I don't know what the h*ll you are asking for IF NOT A TRIM.....After reading through all of your rants, I do agree that perhaps the farrier trimmed him too short and then tried to rectify by putting on shoes (which apparently didn't work). But just a head's up, it doesn't take much of frozen ground (and, excuse me, but there is NO perfectly flat level "frozen" ground) or even small pebbles to give a horse bruises if they are tender footed.
eta: after seeing that picture....it was a pretty bad job of trimming too.....
What do you mean, what was I asking for? I was asking for his shoes to be pulled and his edges to be cleaned up! Not his sole to be dug out and a 15.2 hand horse, that wears a size 1 to end up wear tripe otts!! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1258
Location: MN | Now, I bet no one can look at the picture of my horse and tell me it looks like the farrier knew what he was doing, and for the record, the farrier's wife is NOT my vet, he hurried up and called her before I arrived to the apt, while my husband was holding my horse | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| Snoopy, I didn't read all the replies.
But my heart hurts for you. Everyone that says, "oh just find a new farrier" or "just have to move on"-I read your previous post and know who you purchased the horse from. The lady is very reputable and you say the horse was costly-kinda hard just to move on. Easier said than done and I am certain anyone found in your position would be livid.
Yes the farrier could have made an innocent mistake-but like any "professional" business person, they should take some responsibility for all actions.
I don't have any advice, but I am thinking of you. I had this happen to me by a farrier when I moved south and we were so fortunate the horse recovered quickly. But the farrier trimmed way too much off. Yes, we should be educated but we try to trust farriers to a certain extent. It is always a risk, even when using a reputable farrier.
I know of a fantastic farrier in Minnesota/Wisconsin that I used for years by the way. PM me if you need information.
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Blueridgedreaming - 2014-12-16 4:43 PM Snoopy, I didn't read all the replies. But my heart hurts for you. Everyone that says, "oh just find a new farrier" or "just have to move on"-I read your previous post and know who you purchased the horse from. The lady is very reputable and you say the horse was costly-kinda hard just to move on. Easier said than done and I am certain anyone found in your position would be livid. Yes the farrier could have made an innocent mistake-but like any "professional" business person, they should take some responsibility for all actions. I don't have any advice, but I am thinking of you. I had this happen to me by a farrier when I moved south and we were so fortunate the horse recovered quickly. But the farrier trimmed way too much off. Yes, we should be educated but we try to trust farriers to a certain extent. It is always a risk, even when using a reputable farrier. I know of a fantastic farrier in Minnesota/Wisconsin that I used for years by the way. PM me if you need information.
Because that's their job! If I can't trust my farrier to do his job and if I know more than the farrier well.....Houston, we have a problem! Everyone jumps on the OP like it's her fault because she should know how to properly trim, shoe, etc.... guess what! she's not a farrier, thats why she hired one. I have a very good farrier and I have made comments about what I thought would work and he was quick to correct me and explain why or why not it would be a good idea. The farrier trimmed the horse too short, he knew he horse had shoes on and he knew the ground was frozen, he-as the farrier- should have known and told her(if he thought she wanted him trimmed) that it wouldn't be a good idea!
To the OP: unfortunately its going to cost you more in legal fees to get him to pay than the x-rays will cost. if the horse ends up being completely crippled and unusable, then you would have a better chance of recooping your money for the horse and emotional distress, etc. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1258
Location: MN | FlyingJT - 2014-12-16 5:05 PM
Blueridgedreaming - 2014-12-16 4:43 PM Snoopy, I didn't read all the replies. But my heart hurts for you. Everyone that says, "oh just find a new farrier" or "just have to move on"-I read your previous post and know who you purchased the horse from. The lady is very reputable and you say the horse was costly-kinda hard just to move on. Easier said than done and I am certain anyone found in your position would be livid. Yes the farrier could have made an innocent mistake-but like any "professional" business person, they should take some responsibility for all actions. I don't have any advice, but I am thinking of you. I had this happen to me by a farrier when I moved south and we were so fortunate the horse recovered quickly. But the farrier trimmed way too much off. Yes, we should be educated but we try to trust farriers to a certain extent. It is always a risk, even when using a reputable farrier. I know of a fantastic farrier in Minnesota/Wisconsin that I used for years by the way. PM me if you need information.
Because that's their job! If I can't trust my farrier to do his job and if I know more than the farrier well.....Houston, we have a problem! Everyone jumps on the OP like it's her fault because she should know how to properly trim, shoe, etc.... guess what! she's not a farrier, thats why she hired one. I have a very good farrier and I have made comments about what I thought would work and he was quick to correct me and explain why or why not it would be a good idea. The farrier trimmed the horse too short, he knew he horse had shoes on and he knew the ground was frozen, he-as the farrier- should have known and told her (if he thought she wanted him trimmed ) that it wouldn't be a good idea! To the OP: unfortunately its going to cost you more in legal fees to get him to pay than the x-rays will cost. if the horse ends up being completely crippled and unusable, then you would have a better chance of recooping your money for the horse and emotional distress, etc.
thank you | |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | FlyingJT - 2014-12-16 5:05 PM
To the OP: unfortunately its going to cost you more in legal fees to get him to pay than the x-rays will cost. if the horse ends up being completely crippled and unusable, then you would have a better chance of recooping your money for the horse and emotional distress, etc.
If anybody has read most of the responses.......THIS is why several have said find a new farrier and move on. It is likely, since the OP was vigilant and caught early enough that there "probably" will not be any permanent damage.....just time to recuperate. Still no reason for her to get p*ssy with the people who respond here.......By the way, if he wasn't your regular farrier, who recommended him? | |
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| Hope your horse is doing better and will be fine after time. I know that I've told my regular farrier to pull their shoes and just clean them up to go barefoot. They still trimmed too short. Some horses are tender footed for whatever reason and will be tender for a couple of weeks even on unfrozen ground.
As far as posting here or possibly anywhere else, there are lots of different personalities on here. Just have to be prepared for any response and try not to let anyone get to you. It is very difficult to put all the details of a situation here so that everyone can get the whole picture.
Good luck. | |
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | Get the X-rays. Peace of mind is well worth the $$ spent. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| It's your fault just like it was my fault I decided to pull the shoes on my mare and she foundered she was compleatly sound before I pulled them off.. It was my decision to do that.. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 417
Location: CA | snoopy - 2014-12-16 2:22 PM
1st time he was shod
That's ugly. It sucks to not be able to ride a horse you just bought, but it does look like it will be better with time. Lots of time. I'd shoot for legging him up in late spring and only have a good farrier work on him every 7-8 weeks in the meantime. | |
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