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| So what is the problem with the mare? I have every intention of keeping this foal as a future barrel horse. I am really puzzled here... I am looking at it from the science of things. |
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
  
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Exactly as Three Champs said. If this is a foal for you that you will keep forever and sale value isn't important, then by all means breed to a donkey if you want. But, if sale value, the best chance to prove your stud is what you are aiming for, you need a QH mare and the best one you can find. I would go so far as to say, a mare that is so good that it doesn't matter what she is bred to. When you go to sale this foal, you will have an unproven, paint stallion. You need to bring something to the table. TB's can add speed sure, but they aren't as desireable on the market. A QH will compliment your boy a lot better.
Edited by LRQHS 2015-03-06 3:42 PM
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 Expert
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Location: Gainesville, TX | Sometimes its not the science, its the market, market science if you will, lol. People are more likely to purchase proven lines and mainly QH. That doesn't mean you can't sell yours but that they will not command top dollar; you'll probably break even at first. All that said, that type of mix, through hybrid vigor, might actually produce a pretty nice horse. You just need to be prepared to prove your horses and breeding program over several years and several winners before people will pay you top dollar for that cross. You can make it happen; it will just take time and is a gamble. There are always different breeding philosophies.
What Jennifer is pointing out is that you might have better luck proving your stallion and better resale value with a couple really top notch quarter horse mares, especially running lines. Run/Cow lines crosses are well respected in barrels. I do respect a dash of TB here and there, but there are more recognized lines like Chicks Beduino to have. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FlyinDoveHorses - 2015-03-06 3:27 PM I guess I don't see where you are coming from... I'm breeding to add speed in the herd, and the mare has some nice babies in barrel futurities now, and the stud is doing exceptional for only 5 shows under his belt. Guess I like my impressive/storm cat lol
Not all Thoroughbreds are fast... The mare is 7 and has babies running in futurities already? |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Just my opinion. First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to.
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color. Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses. People don't want them.
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants. Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post. Have a great weekend.  |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | OregonBR - 2015-03-06 4:10 PM Just my opinion. First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to.
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color. Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses. People don't want them.
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants. Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post. Have a great weekend.
Exactly. Enjoy him, cut him even... There are SO many horses out there that don't need "speed added to them"...why not just buy one? Just because they CAN reproduce doesn't mean that they should, this goes for mares as well. |
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Location: SE Louisiana | rachellyn80 - 2015-03-06 4:22 PM
OregonBR - 2015-03-06 4:10 PM Just my opinion. Â First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Â Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to. Â
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color.  Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses.  People don't want them. Â
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants. Â Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post. Â Have a great weekend.Â
He'd make a nice looking gelding.... |
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 Night Chat Leader
Posts: 13150
Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | OregonBR - 2015-03-06 4:10 PM
Just my opinion. Â First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Â Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to. Â
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color.  Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses.  People don't want them. Â
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants. Â Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post. Â Have a great weekend.Â
This is pretty much what I was trying to say...I guess it just didn't come out right.
Go you for being eloquent! |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I'm not opposed to breeding TB mares at all. Alot of very nice, very successful horses have come from TB mares and we should never forget what Three Bars did for the QH breed. Also, nobody can tell me TB's cant run barrels because I have known a few bang up TB barrel horses. The most recient is Jandee Smart's BCR Stella Bella. She is tuff tuff tuff on that horse and qualified to The American this year. Unfortunatelly tipped a barrel with a 14.9 in the long go. That said, I am not a fan at all with Storm Cat horses. I didnt look at the pedigree of your mare so I have no clue how far back he is. The further the better as far as I am concerned and honestly, I dont know a single one who has made it in the barrel pen. Maybe someone else knows of one? Thats not to say she isnt a nice individual herself and she may even be a great producer. She will obviously tell her own story.
As far as your stallion goes, he is a BS paint. Not alot of marketability there. He looks like a nice horse, but he is in all honesty not packing alot of selling points for building a breeding program around. There wont be much marketability in his foals unless you make it to the NFR on him or go win The American. He will have to really rattle peoples cage and do it many times to create a demand for his foals. Only because he isnt packing a stacked pedigree by being a direct son of a big name hall of famer type horse and he has no color. No color is great, IF they arent a paint. I 100% agree with the above though, if you really want to build a breeding program around this horse, then you are going to have to get some colored race mares under him so you at least have a chance at not going broke. It really is darn near impossible to re-invent the wheel. I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest. The horse business is whats harsh.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Maybe it would be better to work on getting your stud a proven performance record for now? He's going to need to win a pile of $$$$$, to make his babies worth anything. He's a solid paint with out anything 'hot' now on his papers. All breeding a solid paint to TB mares is likely going to do is contribute to the over population of horses.
I couldn't find any race results for him?
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 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | komet. - 2015-03-06 3:39 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-03-06 4:22 PM
OregonBR - 2015-03-06 4:10 PM Just my opinion. Â First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Â Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to. Â
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color.  Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses.  People don't want them. Â
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants. Â Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post. Â Have a great weekend.Â
He'd make a nice looking gelding....
AGREE. STRONGLY agree with all the above.
and LRQHS while i ALWAYS ( well usually agree with you) I do have to say if this gal REALLY wanted to prove her SOLID APHA stud. she would need colored APHA mares. Because as Oregon pointed out above, No one buys SOLID paints. and if they do they are NOT for the amount of money a colored one would go for. This is Especially true now because of the PBRIP program for paints. Any of his babies out of QH or TB mares would NOT qualify. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2015-03-06 5:13 PM komet. - 2015-03-06 3:39 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-03-06 4:22 PM OregonBR - 2015-03-06 4:10 PM Just my opinion. First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to.
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color. Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses. People don't want them.
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants. Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post. Have a great weekend. He'd make a nice looking gelding.... AGREE. STRONGLY agree with all the above. and LRQHS while i ALWAYS ( well usually agree with you ) I do have to say if this gal REALLY wanted to prove her SOLID APHA stud. she would need colored APHA mares. Because as Oregon pointed out above, No one buys SOLID paints. and if they do they are NOT for the amount of money a colored one would go for. This is Especially true now because of the PBRIP program for paints. Any of his babies out of QH or TB mares would NOT qualify.
I agree here too. My mindset was getting a BA speedster. You can find them paint wise, but I thought better chances with a quick SLJ or something like that. I totally agree about color too though. This is a tough road to take to try to start a program. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Where have you been running him at? Hes cute but if I were breeding to a paint I would want the color that gos along with the paint name, theres some really nice BS paints that are doing super well, but I would want color and crossed on a Quater mare not a TB. This fella would have to be really running at the top befor someone would breed to a BS paint I would think.  |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | LRQHS - 2015-03-06 5:20 PM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2015-03-06 5:13 PM komet. - 2015-03-06 3:39 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-03-06 4:22 PM OregonBR - 2015-03-06 4:10 PM Just my opinion. Â First test your stallion for PSSM1, HYPP, MH for sure. Along with that are 2 other tests (HERDA and GBED) that don't cost any more than the first ones. It's called a 5 panel disorder test. Â Animal Genetics is where you can get the test paperwork and send hair with roots to. Â
Second he's a solid (I can't see any white that would make him a regular papered APHA) paint, so I wouldn't breed him. If you must breed the pretty pony, get colored mares to breed so you have some chance of getting color.  Trust me, I've been around for MANY years and you will go broke trying to raise solid paint bred horses.  People don't want them. Â
Third (this is going to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts) breeding horses like you are talking about willy nilly is exactly why there are too many horses being produced that NOBODY wants.  Sorry. That's my PSA for the day. If you've been here for a while like you say, you had to know you would get the above response to your post.  Have a great weekend. He'd make a nice looking gelding.... AGREE. STRONGLY agree with all the above. and LRQHS while i ALWAYS ( well usually agree with you ) I do have to say if this gal REALLY wanted to prove her SOLID APHA stud. she would need colored APHA mares. Because as Oregon pointed out above, No one buys SOLID paints. and if they do they are NOT for the amount of money a colored one would go for. This is Especially true now because of the PBRIP program for paints. Any of his babies out of QH or TB mares would NOT qualify.
Agree on these points too. |
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Member
Posts: 38
| He's been doing cutting roping barrels poles. He's doing amazing down here in TXLA, just got home and he took 1st in the 2D tonight with only his 6th time out with 100 in the open. He packing plenty under the hood. He throws roans so far with limited crop. OF COURSE he has been tested we did that when I bought him... I have good friends that have crossed their Paints with thoroughbreds and they have been doing exceptionally well for a long time. IM going to cross these two, yes I have nice QH/Paints booked and some in foal now. Market might not be there but when the foal is winning and the sire then it won't be crazy. I will eventually cross the offspring of this cross with a higher or "designer " line. Right now I'm focusing on a few outside mares and getting him really winning. Everyone that has met him, seen him they wanna breed no matter what he's registered or what the baby looks like(color). I know it's gonna be hard but hell do it and he'll stay intact. Why geld something that is exceptional. I know sounds crazy but yAll will see ;)
Thank for all yAlls input positive or not. :-) |
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Member
Posts: 38
| He's been doing cutting roping barrels poles. He's doing amazing down here in TXLA, just got home and he took 1st in the 2D tonight with only his 6th time out with 100 in the open. He packing plenty under the hood. He throws roans so far with limited crop. OF COURSE he has been tested we did that when I bought him... I have good friends that have crossed their Paints with thoroughbreds and they have been doing exceptionally well for a long time. IM going to cross these two, yes I have nice QH/Paints booked and some in foal now. Market might not be there but when the foal is winning and the sire then it won't be crazy. I will eventually cross the offspring of this cross with a higher or "designer " line. Right now I'm focusing on a few outside mares and getting him really winning. Everyone that has met him, seen him they wanna breed no matter what he's registered or what the baby looks like(color). I know it's gonna be hard but hell do it and he'll stay intact. Why geld something that is exceptional. I know sounds crazy but yAll will see ;)
Thank for all yAlls input positive or not. :-) |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| How many people are going to want to breed to an impressive bred stud for barrels? Even if he is good |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Looking at his papers....the only ones I like are so far back that they won't be on a paper copy. He's a 9 yo stud with no performance record (1st in 2D out of 100 isn't a reason to breed one). He's a solid paint....and you're crossing him on a TB to add speed? I don't understand. TBs are built for distance, no sprinting, that is why ones that make it in the barrel pen are few and far between. He'd make a nice gelding. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 787
Location: NE Pa-Gods Country | i think he would make an awful nice gelding...PAINT...is a color breed after all, and you will be adding to the already thousands of unwanted horses out there. As a paint breeder myself, i would never breed to a solid unless he was a world champion and had produced world champions. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FlyinDoveHorses - 2015-03-07 12:13 AM He's been doing cutting roping barrels poles. He's doing amazing down here in TXLA, just got home and he took 1st in the 2D tonight with only his 6th time out with 100 in the open. He packing plenty under the hood. He throws roans so far with limited crop. OF COURSE he has been tested we did that when I bought him... I have good friends that have crossed their Paints with thoroughbreds and they have been doing exceptionally well for a long time. IM going to cross these two, yes I have nice QH/Paints booked and some in foal now. Market might not be there but when the foal is winning and the sire then it won't be crazy. I will eventually cross the offspring of this cross with a higher or "designer " line. Right now I'm focusing on a few outside mares and getting him really winning. Everyone that has met him, seen him they wanna breed no matter what he's registered or what the baby looks like(color). I know it's gonna be hard but hell do it and he'll stay intact. Why geld something that is exceptional. I know sounds crazy but yAll will see ;) Thank for all yAlls input positive or not. :-)
I'm calling BS on that one. |
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