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Veteran
Posts: 226
 
Location: Where the blacktop ends | I think more emphasis should be put on drug testing for Welfare! Leave the horse industry alone.
Horse drug testing gets to involved with drugs that horses really need, such as bute and banamine at normal doses. It's never going to be an even playing field, someone elses horse is always going to be more athletic or bred better. Are you gonna test for that too?
Sometimes you just get beat and sometimes you are the one in the winners circle. Work hard and train hard. |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
 
Location: OH | Personally, I think the drug speculation in the futurity world is overblown and gives people ANOTHER excuse for why they were outrun. I know several of the top trainers and someone may see them giving B12 and think they are drugging. I was told specifically that it is hard enough to get the futurity horses to focus, much less if you jack them up. |
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 Saint Stacey
| I'm sort of shocked and saddened by how naive people truly are when it comes to drug use. There's a lot more to drug use than just calming one down or hopping them up. How about the unsound ones that are simply blocked as just one example?
Edited by SKM 2015-03-09 6:11 PM
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Mighty Broke - 2015-03-09 5:40 PM
Personally, I think the drug speculation in the futurity world is overblown and gives people ANOTHER excuse for why they were outrun. I know several of the top trainers and someone may see them giving B12 and think they are drugging. I was told specifically that it is hard enough to get the futurity horses to focus, much less if you jack them up.
I could not agree more with your last sentence. I have been playing the futurity game for the last 15 years and have had success at it. The last thing I want to do to my horses is hype them up on anything. It is to darn hard to keep them clam in the first place. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | I know all about the blocking and was involved in the TB industry I just dont see it in the futurity industry to the extent people think because of the young horses. I would be more worried about it in the events where you have the older horse that has been hauled down the road for years. The American for example, this would be a good place for them to set the standard. |
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 Night Chat Leader
Posts: 13150
Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | SKM - 2015-03-09 6:01 PM
I'm sort of shocked and saddened by how naive people truly are when it comes to drug use. There's a lot more to drug use than just calming one down or hopping them up. How about the unsound ones that are simply blocked as just one example?
I couldn't agree more. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| In to learn what drugs we should not be giving our horses... |
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Veteran
Posts: 102
| Mighty Broke - 2015-03-09 3:57 PM
This has been brought up before---what do people think that these TOP trainers are using that would change things so much ??????
Because they think that's why they aren't competitive! It has nothing to do with talent or ability, it must be drugs that are getting them beat!! |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | I dont really like the testing thing....well I dont mind testing, but its the stuff that is legal and normal that bugs me. If performancing enhancing is the issue, what about Adequan...stuff like that? If that is not preformance enhancing, why use it? Technically. EVERYTHING could be said to do that. I dont mind testing for illegal stuff. but its already illegal! Like cocaine, speed stuff, frog juice? (?) But there is always an argument as to "what" is okay. There have been people arguing strongly that if a horse needs bute...it should not run. UGH...I think things like that should be up to the owner and vet. But like everything...it can be taken too far. I have been hearing about how the big shots drug...they did it in the WPRA and I dont think the landscape changed all that much. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | Just saying there's a lot of needles everywhere you go I would love to see testing done on all levels. |
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Veteran
Posts: 102
| Ok. who's going to pay for this drug testing ?? I've got news for you, it will be YOU!! It would be included in YOUR entry fee. Now how do you like drug testing?? |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Everyone just has to be careful what we wish for, drug testing means no Ace, no clenbutoral, no penicillan. Bute, around 10cc twelve hours out will keep you legal. Just sayin. LOL. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | It is always a slippery slope when it comes to drug testing in our world. Are there trainers who will give one Adrenaline and then administer Guanabenz to get them to focus, sure. Are there a lot of up and comers who are giving drugs that they've heard certain pros use, without really knowing the ins and outs of those drugs? You bet your bippy! That's what scares me! Sure, the hopping, blocking and doping can get bad, but the folks who are blindly administering drugs without knowing their effects and possible contradictions is the worst part of it.
There are definitely people in this industry who make a whole ton of money administering meds to some of the top horses going down the road. There is a reason that we all joke that the new owners of a very high dollar horse must have bought the horse, but not the recipe. I do feel though, that some people do probably think that far more of the people who are winning are doing so because of a needle than actually are. I am currently hauling three horses that require pre race injectibles. Two are Lasix users and the other requires Dantrolene. I sure get some funny looks and comments when 3 out of 4 horses on my trailer and the 2 nicest all receive injections. I'm happy to explain to anyone who asks, but I also enjoy laughing at the rumors! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 473
| Leo - 2015-03-09 4:54 PM
Whiteboy - 2015-03-09 3:46 PM
mruggles - 2015-03-09 3:42 PM i think testing should be done for the nasty stuff but leave banamine and bute and lasix and dex and stuff along this line alone...........
m
I guess that might be the hard thing...to draw the line. Anybody know where the line is on racehorses?
Some of the stuff on race horses isn't so much what the drug is, but how much.
Just a math example here, you can only give 2 cc of lasix instead of 6 cc.
Other drugs, like frog juice, are banned entirely.
I want to be able to give my barrel horse ulcer guard the day OF the event. I think race rules are sometimes a little too strict. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | I'm curious, what are the drugs and how much is given that people are saying top winners use? I've really only heard of legend, adequan, pentosan, bute and banamine. I'm just really naive I suppose.
Edited by *almost there* 2015-03-09 10:43 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | I look at drugs as a tool for the horses. The most any futurity trainer is using a mild calming drug if anything. Personally I think it is way more humane to give a horse 1/2 cc of ace to help ANY horse, not just futurity horses keep calm under very nervous conditions. THAN to lope a horse for hours like cutters do. What most don't understand is if you do give a horse a little something to help them control their nerves most of the time the next trip they won't think it's a big deal so they just progress and don't need anything. The futurity world is a great group of very talented people and trainers that take EXCELLENT care of their horses. These horses are prepped to go on and be solid horses for years to come. As far as what I know of the people in the futurity world drugs are not much of a part of it. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? |
I currently compete in a sport that tests...and the list of prohibited compounds is VERY lengthy. Almost none of what has been listed here would be allowed. Distance CTR is a "Cavalry based" sport that seeks to reward and identify horses that are ideally suited to covering longer distances over multiple days and stay sound and in good condition. So...I get why bute, banamine, ace, any and all anti-inflammatories etc would not be allowed.
That being said. A horse running for a short period is still clearly working hard..however you are not miles and miles away from camp and exerting them over a long period of time. You can do more in that situation to monitor and keep the horse cool and comfortable. Something I'm sure you all know about Ace in particular is that it drops blood pressure and messes with a horse's ability to regulate their body temperature. That can be a big problem on a hot day at a barrel race...particularly if the horse doesn't drink well.
The argument against these compounds is that they are "Performance Enhancing". Well...so much of what we do to prepare for a race is designed to do exactly that. Shoes no shoes, boots, the best bit, saddle, feed, supplements etc. THAT aspect of "drug use" isn't what bothers me. What DOES bother me is when a horse is in pain...and they continue to compete it and manage to do so by giving bute, blocking or other things. Often the horse is still hurting while running....and if they are not addressing the cause of the pain...well...I don't think horses just have a "Bute Deficiency". They can make things worse.
If the owner and vet are working together to help the horse...that's great. When an owner just starts medicating what they THINK is the problem...or when folks give crazy and clearly bad things just to get an edge... THAT is a bad deal for the horse.
And...as others have said...the testing does factor into the cost of the entry in NATRC. We pay a small testing fee for each ride entry. Tests are unannounced and random. Although I believe in California...all are tested and it's mandatory.
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| What would you test for? When would you test? Round 1 or after finals? How many? Where does testing money come from? Are horses in secured locations? Who has access to horses? Can anyone inject or aonl vets only ones allowed? What are ramifications?
Testing alone doesn't do anything. I play by the rules, whatever those rules are. I don't think most of the people in the barrel industry realize how medicated the "barrel horse" is. I know I am constantly amazed at the things people "Need" to give their horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Yes they get blocked b4 they go through the gate. So do some professional athletes.
Yes they get bute, banamine, and ketofen, do you not take a Tylenol or ibuprofen? Also I know some men who should be on welfare but they take small doses of stronger pain killers and go to work and feed their families everyday.
Some horses just like kids require meds to focus. Would take those meds away from an ADA kid?
Horses are property people, owners and trainers can do what they like with them IF they are both on the same page.
Make drug testing rules for the futurities you will just have some ppl get more sneaky, just like in the track world.
Futurity entry fees are high enough as it is and IF you have enough money to pay off the race producer you can drug all you want while the little man who works for a living and gives their horse some bute gets caught.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-03-10 9:53 AM
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | I'm all for it to an extent. Anti inflammitories like bute and banamine are fine as long as they are within the suggested dosage. Drugs like clenbuterol is fine as long as it is used for it's intended purpose.... Slippery slope... I know.
What I have a problem with is sedative drugs like Ace and Chlorpromazine (sp) and the other one I can't think of the name. I think those are a short cut to proper training. Some in the futurity world are in such a hurry to get results with these babies that it's too easy to drug them to calm them down and help them focus. I was at a futurity years ago where a girl was bragging about how much Chlorpromazine she was giving her horse. I about fell off mine. She needed to give her horse an overdose just to get him to work.
If a horse needs these calming drugs to make a run then maybe that's a sign that they need more time to mature and take things slower. I know a lot of people don't agree with me because the money and glory is in futurities and that's all they care about, but training a successful barrel horse is a marathon, not a sprint. They shouldn't need pharmaceutical help. |
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