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What Name?
Posts: 1994
   
| All the quoting is making this page scroll happy. ha ha,
What about this bit? I found that he really likes the rolls ( correct term?? ) simply because he's slightly busy minded. I've noticed that he's often focused on playing with it more when he's worried instead looking for 'boogey men' and it has dramatically cut his spook action. lol
Edited by americanpride08 2015-03-27 1:00 PM
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
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I actually spent all day reading this yesterday evening, and several of it's other article links. I'm a hands on learner. =P it's hard for me to connect the dots unless I actively participate to see results. So it took me a min to catch on to the subtle differences, like the wired vs smooth ect. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: Nowhere Land | americanpride08 - 2015-03-27 12:59 PM
All the quoting is making this page scroll happy. ha ha,
What about this bit? I found that he really likes the rolls ( correct term?? ) simply because he's slightly busy minded. I've noticed that he's often focused on playing with it more when he's worried instead looking for 'boogey men' and it has dramatically cut his spook action. lolÂ
I have a very similar Myler Bit. My mare does VERY well in this as my slow work and flat work bit. I dont ride every day in my "running" bit. I use this bit with split reins.
Myler also Makes this exact bit with "lifter" pieces. Kind of like little "loops" where the bit attaches to the bridle and then another "loop" where the reins attach, for leverage and a little extra control. I also use rawhide/leather Curbs with my Snaffle Drings. Helps the bit stay balanced and even in the horses mouth. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| oija - 2015-03-27 12:40 PM While all horses move into shanked bits at different times, I do think a good point was made about starting in an o-ring or d-ring. However it sounds like the OP wants the very basic basics. No one has really answered that yet so I'll try. First of all anything placed on the head of a horse puts pressure on it. The places where that pressure can be exerted are on the nose (nose piece, halter, hackamore, side pull), the corners of the mouth (all bits and most especially gags), the tongue (again all bits), the roof of the mouth (ported bits and two piece snaffles), the bars (open gum area between the front and back teeth which all bits will sit on--obviously affected by any actual bit), the chin (affected by a curb strap--not all bits have these or make contact so it may not be a point of contact), and the poll (or top of the head, which shanked bits, hacks, and gag bits affect). With a young horse, the general rule of thumb is the fewer places that are touched and affected by a bit or head piece the better. Its confusing enough to get used to the saddle, a rider, and being told to go places. If you are being told to do things in 6 different ways instead of 2 its even more confusing. A smart young horse will eventually figure it all out in any bit but they learn faster and usually fight you less if they are told in 2 ways instead of 6. Many young horses are started in a rope halter or bosal for this reason. They are already halter broke and know to turn, stop, or back up based on nose pressure so this makes sense to them. What's the best things about a simple o ring or d rings with a two or three piece mouth (no port--raised portion), is that it still operates on direct rein pressure. If you pull right, they go right. There are also fewer points of contact. A basic o ring or d ring operates on the corner of the mouth, a bit on the tongue, and the bars of the mouth. Some people add a curb strap under the chin but loosely, just to keep the bit from being pulled through a young horse's mouth. After they are used to this basic direct pressure, then people will add the curb strap tighter so you also add a new pressure point on the chin. Eventually people work up to some kind of shanked bit like the two you show and this adds pressure to the top of the head. Then they may choose to have a ported or raised mouthpiece which adds further pressure to the roof of the mouth. As they progress and need less and less direction from you they can move into more and more pressure points. Its really a lot like math. You need to learn how to add and subtract before you multiply and divide.
This is EXTREMELY helpful. I was missing a few of those pressure points and that really broke it down for me. So much to remember!! ha ha I'm going to have to work harder now. Bug gives of leg and rein pressure pretty well, but had no idea the bit I am currently riding in would hit so many pressure points. No wonder at times he gets a little confused. This stuff has given me a lot of food for thought. With all the bridles/bit combinations I have access too, I'm defintely gonna try a few and see what he works best in. I really just do basic riding with him right now, just builing muscles and familiarizing with things for the future. No heavy work, specific foot work. Just some trail challenges.
Thanks a bunch! | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| americanpride08 - 2015-03-27 12:59 PM
All the quoting is making this page scroll happy. ha ha,
What about this bit? I found that he really likes the rolls ( correct term?? ) simply because he's slightly busy minded. I've noticed that he's often focused on playing with it more when he's worried instead looking for 'boogey men' and it has dramatically cut his spook action. lolÂ
It isn't actually a roller in this picture, it doesn't go round and round, if I remember right it may move 1/8" in each direction, it is used to protect the ball bearing underneath which gives the each shank independence of the other.
Go back to the first bits you posted, put your hands on the break, and the "roller" mouth piece, and have someone pull on them, you will feel the difference | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| oija - 2015-03-27 12:40 PM
While all horses move into shanked bits at different times, I do think a good point was made about starting in an o-ring or d-ring. However it sounds like the OP wants the very basic basics. No one has really answered that yet so I'll try.
First of all anything placed on the head of a horse puts pressure on it. The places where that pressure can be exerted are on the nose (nose piece, halter, hackamore, side pull), the corners of the mouth (all bits and most especially gags), the tongue (again all bits), the roof of the mouth (ported bits and two piece snaffles), the bars (open gum area between the front and back teeth which all bits will sit on--obviously affected by any actual bit), the chin (affected by a curb strap--not all bits have these or make contact so it may not be a point of contact), and the poll (or top of the head, which shanked bits, hacks, and gag bits affect).
With a young horse, the general rule of thumb is the fewer places that are touched and affected by a bit or head piece the better. Its confusing enough to get used to the saddle, a rider, and being told to go places. If you are being told to do things in 6 different ways instead of 2 its even more confusing. A smart young horse will eventually figure it all out in any bit but they learn faster and usually fight you less if they are told in 2 ways instead of 6. Many young horses are started in a rope halter or bosal for this reason. They are already halter broke and know to turn, stop, or back up based on nose pressure so this makes sense to them. What's the best things about a simple o ring or d rings with a two or three piece mouth (no port--raised portion), is that it still operates on direct rein pressure. If you pull right, they go right. There are also fewer points of contact. A basic o ring or d ring operates on the corner of the mouth, a bit on the tongue, and the bars of the mouth. Some people add a curb strap under the chin but loosely, just to keep the bit from being pulled through a young horse's mouth. After they are used to this basic direct pressure, then people will add the curb strap tighter so you also add a new pressure point on the chin. Eventually people work up to some kind of shanked bit like the two you show and this adds pressure to the top of the head. Then they may choose to have a ported or raised mouthpiece which adds further pressure to the roof of the mouth. As they progress and need less and less direction from you they can move into more and more pressure points.
Its really a lot like math. You need to learn how to add and subtract before you multiply and divide.
I will disagree with you on the port part.
If you listen to myler's philosophy who has done research and has X-rays, skeletons to prove their point, not all ports will hit the palate.
I do know there are exceptions to the rule and some horses have a shallow palate, not the majority.
Myler does have a line and I can't remember the mouthpiece number that the port only allows tongue relief, no roof pressure. In the lecture I attended they said on average a horse needs a 3" port to affect the roof, if the bit is positioned properly.
Also watching their lecture and speaking to them, they also disagree with the single broken o ring snaffle hitting the roof, and just by mechanics of an o ring, I can't see how it could, as when you pull the bit collapses it doesn't specifically move up, or down, it will move in the path of least resistance with factoring in gravity generally not up. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | cheryl makofka - 2015-03-27 1:46 PM
oija - 2015-03-27 12:40 PM
While all horses move into shanked bits at different times, I do think a good point was made about starting in an o-ring or d-ring. However it sounds like the OP wants the very basic basics. No one has really answered that yet so I'll try.
First of all anything placed on the head of a horse puts pressure on it. The places where that pressure can be exerted are on the nose (nose piece, halter, hackamore, side pull), the corners of the mouth (all bits and most especially gags), the tongue (again all bits), the roof of the mouth (ported bits and two piece snaffles), the bars (open gum area between the front and back teeth which all bits will sit on--obviously affected by any actual bit), the chin (affected by a curb strap--not all bits have these or make contact so it may not be a point of contact), and the poll (or top of the head, which shanked bits, hacks, and gag bits affect).
With a young horse, the general rule of thumb is the fewer places that are touched and affected by a bit or head piece the better. Its confusing enough to get used to the saddle, a rider, and being told to go places. If you are being told to do things in 6 different ways instead of 2 its even more confusing. A smart young horse will eventually figure it all out in any bit but they learn faster and usually fight you less if they are told in 2 ways instead of 6. Many young horses are started in a rope halter or bosal for this reason. They are already halter broke and know to turn, stop, or back up based on nose pressure so this makes sense to them. What's the best things about a simple o ring or d rings with a two or three piece mouth (no port--raised portion), is that it still operates on direct rein pressure. If you pull right, they go right. There are also fewer points of contact. A basic o ring or d ring operates on the corner of the mouth, a bit on the tongue, and the bars of the mouth. Some people add a curb strap under the chin but loosely, just to keep the bit from being pulled through a young horse's mouth. After they are used to this basic direct pressure, then people will add the curb strap tighter so you also add a new pressure point on the chin. Eventually people work up to some kind of shanked bit like the two you show and this adds pressure to the top of the head. Then they may choose to have a ported or raised mouthpiece which adds further pressure to the roof of the mouth. As they progress and need less and less direction from you they can move into more and more pressure points.
Its really a lot like math. You need to learn how to add and subtract before you multiply and divide.
I will disagree with you on the port part.
If you listen to myler's philosophy who has done research and has X-rays, skeletons to prove their point, not all ports will hit the palate.
I do know there are exceptions to the rule and some horses have a shallow palate, not the majority.
Myler does have a line and I can't remember the mouthpiece number that the port only allows tongue relief, no roof pressure. In the lecture I attended they said on average a horse needs a 3" port to affect the roof, if the bit is positioned properly.
Also watching their lecture and speaking to them, they also disagree with the single broken o ring snaffle hitting the roof, and just by mechanics of an o ring, I can't see how it could, as when you pull the bit collapses it doesn't specifically move up, or down, it will move in the path of least resistance with factoring in gravity generally not up.
My filly has a very small mouth. Trust me, if you are pulling back and a regular size snaffle is "collapsing" or coming together, the top joint hits the roof of her mouth. In a bigger horse I would agree with you but many smaller horses have narrow chins and this allows the o ring when pulled down a bit to raise the joint enough to potentially hit the roof of the mouth. I prefer her in a dogbone for this reason.
I can see your point on ports but again there are exceptions.
I think it is important for the OP to understand these types of bits CAN hit the roof of the mouth, thought they may not always. That way she understands that this may be an additional pressure point to investigate. Especially as she is starting him in a bit that already is operating on several. I think initial poll pressure, especially in a bit you are trying to use for more direct reining, can be particularly confusing for a young horse. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| americanpride08 - 2015-03-27 1:04 PM I actually spent all day reading this yesterday evening, and several of it's other article links. I'm a hands on learner. =P it's hard for me to connect the dots unless I actively participate to see results. So it took me a min to catch on to the subtle differences, like the wired vs smooth ect.
Me too!! A great way to learn how the bit would lay in a mouth is this - attach reins and lay the bit across your forearm. Then individually tug on each rein, tug them together, etc. Play with the bit on your arm to help learn the different action mechanisms!
Happy learning! | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| oija - 2015-03-27 2:12 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-27 1:46 PM oija - 2015-03-27 12:40 PM While all horses move into shanked bits at different times, I do think a good point was made about starting in an o-ring or d-ring. However it sounds like the OP wants the very basic basics. No one has really answered that yet so I'll try. First of all anything placed on the head of a horse puts pressure on it. The places where that pressure can be exerted are on the nose (nose piece, halter, hackamore, side pull), the corners of the mouth (all bits and most especially gags), the tongue (again all bits), the roof of the mouth (ported bits and two piece snaffles), the bars (open gum area between the front and back teeth which all bits will sit on--obviously affected by any actual bit), the chin (affected by a curb strap--not all bits have these or make contact so it may not be a point of contact), and the poll (or top of the head, which shanked bits, hacks, and gag bits affect). With a young horse, the general rule of thumb is the fewer places that are touched and affected by a bit or head piece the better. Its confusing enough to get used to the saddle, a rider, and being told to go places. If you are being told to do things in 6 different ways instead of 2 its even more confusing. A smart young horse will eventually figure it all out in any bit but they learn faster and usually fight you less if they are told in 2 ways instead of 6. Many young horses are started in a rope halter or bosal for this reason. They are already halter broke and know to turn, stop, or back up based on nose pressure so this makes sense to them. What's the best things about a simple o ring or d rings with a two or three piece mouth (no port--raised portion), is that it still operates on direct rein pressure. If you pull right, they go right. There are also fewer points of contact. A basic o ring or d ring operates on the corner of the mouth, a bit on the tongue, and the bars of the mouth. Some people add a curb strap under the chin but loosely, just to keep the bit from being pulled through a young horse's mouth. After they are used to this basic direct pressure, then people will add the curb strap tighter so you also add a new pressure point on the chin. Eventually people work up to some kind of shanked bit like the two you show and this adds pressure to the top of the head. Then they may choose to have a ported or raised mouthpiece which adds further pressure to the roof of the mouth. As they progress and need less and less direction from you they can move into more and more pressure points. Its really a lot like math. You need to learn how to add and subtract before you multiply and divide. I will disagree with you on the port part. If you listen to myler's philosophy who has done research and has X-rays, skeletons to prove their point, not all ports will hit the palate. I do know there are exceptions to the rule and some horses have a shallow palate, not the majority. Myler does have a line and I can't remember the mouthpiece number that the port only allows tongue relief, no roof pressure. In the lecture I attended they said on average a horse needs a 3" port to affect the roof, if the bit is positioned properly. Also watching their lecture and speaking to them, they also disagree with the single broken o ring snaffle hitting the roof, and just by mechanics of an o ring, I can't see how it could, as when you pull the bit collapses it doesn't specifically move up, or down, it will move in the path of least resistance with factoring in gravity generally not up. My filly has a very small mouth. Trust me, if you are pulling back and a regular size snaffle is "collapsing" or coming together, the top joint hits the roof of her mouth. In a bigger horse I would agree with you but many smaller horses have narrow chins and this allows the o ring when pulled down a bit to raise the joint enough to potentially hit the roof of the mouth. I prefer her in a dogbone for this reason. I can see your point on ports but again there are exceptions. I think it is important for the OP to understand these types of bits CAN hit the roof of the mouth, thought they may not always. That way she understands that this may be an additional pressure point to investigate. Especially as she is starting him in a bit that already is operating on several. I think initial poll pressure, especially in a bit you are trying to use for more direct reining, can be particularly confusing for a young horse.
Do either of you have any recommended good bit names for me to look into quality bits. I'm using my access to try a bunch of different ones, before I purchase one or two really good bits for my horse. But I want to test a couple and I'm sure she has them in her arsnel. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I thoroughly agree with Cheryl on the Myler bits. They are top notch. I would honestly go with a three piece dog bone d ring or o ring to start with but something with a leverage ring like she describes because he's already used to some poll pressure.
Look at Myler's Regular Snaffle Line Single and Double Jointed mouthpieces, # 10.
http://mylerbitsusa.com/onetes3.html#regular_snaffle
Cheekpiece #20 (or if you wanted a bit more leverage for poll pressure and stop since he is used to this already--Cheekpiece # 11).
http://mylerbitsusa.com/onetes3.html#bitshanks
Edited by oija 2015-03-27 6:31 PM
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| oija - 2015-03-27 6:30 PM I thoroughly agree with Cheryl on the Myler bits. They are top notch. I would honestly go with a three piece dog bone d ring or o ring to start with but something with a leverage ring like she describes because he's already used to some poll pressure. Look at Myler's Regular Snaffle Line Single and Double Jointed mouthpieces, # 10. http://mylerbitsusa.com/onetes3.html#regular_snaffle Cheekpiece #20 (or if you wanted a bit more leverage for poll pressure and stop since he is used to this already--Cheekpiece # 11 ). http://mylerbitsusa.com/onetes3.html#bitshanks
Thanks so much! | |
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 Been Blessed
Posts: 7587
Location: Living in my Promised Land | I own the Tom Balding bit that you pictured and it is wonderful. If your horse is starting rollbacks and lead changes, I would stick with the Balding. The placement of the chin strap/chin chain is perfect and helps relax the jaw. I own several other Balding bits, but the one you are using is a very good choice. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| Okay Sooo. I took the information I gathered from all you ladies, and put it to use.
We tried this bit. AND I HATED IT. he was so bracey, and all the sudden VERY hard to keep in control. I had to get in the mouth a LOT. Which I've never had to do in the other bits I had been using. I went from riding a mature horse, to a very obnoxious two year old. Lol
One I tried him in (below)
These are the bits I have access too... ( below)
I've ridden him in both of these and he did great in both.
The bridal I rode him in most of the time is the first one of those two bits. We've been doing roll backs, since about december. We're also doing sliding stops, spins, and we've progressed in the flying lead change area. He collects awesomely in that bit, and isn't at all bracey. I dont have to get in his face. For some reason, the first bit in these pictures, he didn't respond at all.
I haven't ruined my horse have I??? lol I wasn't even remotely aware of what kind of bits he needed to start in. But I trusted Charlie in that department. ( He probably started him in something different, but the figure 8 is what he was in, in december when I got him back from training. Though I changed from that bit to the other one shortly after. )
Edited by americanpride08 2015-03-30 8:22 AM
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | TheDutchMan01 - 2015-03-27 10:46 AM Neither of these are good. If the horse is only 3 you should only be using some kind of snaffle whether it be a loose ring or d ring. No shanked bits on colts!!!
I agree and this isnt a furturity colt this is a amataur rider and a green colt that both need direction and to shove certain bits in the colts mouth to make him overreact is wrong.. work on his foundation and response is a lighter but.. 3 piece snaffles or the ones a few others suggested.
take your time with him , hes young .. if you skip the basics and go right to the tough bits and no foundation work and basic you will regret it.. some riders do put harsh bits in their youngsters in the beginning.. but to me thats riding the head.. I remember when you got him.. you both are new to training and you need to take your time... good luck.. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 7:28 AM
Okay Sooo. I took the information I gathered from all you ladies, and put it to use.Â
We tried this bit. AND I HATED IT. he was so bracey, and all the sudden VERY hard to keep in control. I had to get in the mouth a LOT. Which I've never had to do in the other bits I had been using. I went from riding a mature horse, to a very obnoxious two year old. LolÂ
One I tried him in  (below)
These are the bits I have access too... ( below)
I've ridden him in both of these and he did great in both.
The bridal I rode him in most of the time is the first one of those two bits. Â We've been doing roll backs, since about december. We're also doing sliding stops, spins, and we've progressed in the flying lead change area. He collects awesomely in that bit, and isn't at all bracey. I dont have to get in his face. For some reason, the first bit in these pictures, he didn't respond at all.Â
I haven't ruined my horse have I??? lol I wasn't even remotely aware of what kind of bits he needed to start in. But I trusted Charlie in that department. ( He probably started him in something different, but the figure 8 is what he was in, in december when I got him back from training. Though I changed from that bit to the other one shortly after. )
I personally don't use a single broken mouth piece.
I use 3 piece o ring snaffle.
I will say this, if your horse will not work in the first bit, then he isn't broke. A broke horse should be able to do dry work in any bit.
With a ring snaffle, your hands do need to be different then in a shanked bit.
Also if the horse has never used a ring snaffle, it is going to take a lot of time and effort from you to soften his mouth up, you can't expect the same horse if you change bits if the horse is not broke, the horse is going to be confused.
As for the bits you have to choose from, I don't like any of them, I like o ring snaffles, I don't like the mouthpiece to be fixed on my colts, but if that is all you have to choose from I would pick the last one, if it is a genuine myler.
I would also go back to basics, and get the horse used to the bit, one rein stop, turning on forehand, and hind end, lowering head, stopping, backing up. I would focus on using my body first, hands last.
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| isn't the (3rd pic) of the 2nd snaffle a 3 piece snaffel? Is that what I should be trying him in??
I'm just trying to work out where I need to start and work my way back up. He's a LOT of attitude in one horse when he gets a wild hair. I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about with all these bits. Which is why I'm seeking advice.
Also, when I tried the bit in the first picture ( in most recent post) he was all over the place. And I really had to work to steer him. Legs, seat, hands. He actually almost dumped me once from changing directions on me so fast. SOOO I lunged him a good bit, and when he settled he did much better. ( I found out earlier that he had actually been stalled two days straight, the afternoon feeder forgot to turn him out. So he had a lot of pent up energy. Which may be why he was so all over the place. He's not a horse I would ever keep stalled without reason. He only happened to be up to have his feet trimmed that morning. )
I'm going to give it another go this evening, in a smaller work area, to just work on the basics. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 12:37 PM
isn't the (3rd pic) of the 2nd snaffle a 3 piece snaffel? Is that what I should be trying him in??
I'm just trying to work out where I need to start and work my way back up. He's a LOT of attitude in one horse when he gets a wild hair. I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about with all these bits. Which is why I'm seeking advice.
Also, when I tried the bit in the first picture ( in most recent post) he was all over the place. And I really had to work to steer him. Legs, seat, hands. He actually almost dumped me once from changing directions on me so fast. SOOO I lunged him a good bit, and when he settled he did much better. ( I found out earlier that he had actually been stalled two days straight, the afternoon feeder forgot to turn him out. So he had a lot of pent up energy. Which may be why he was so all over the place. He's not a horse I would ever keep stalled without reason. He only happened to be up to have his feet trimmed that morning. )
I'm going to give it another go this evening, in a smaller work area, to just work on the basics.Â
Why I said the last picture, only if it is a true myler, as you had success with the tom balding in a shanked bit. This way the mouthpiece is familiar.
I will add to say if it is a tom balding bit or a myler I would choose that one for the reason above
If it isn't one of the two bit makers, I would go to the three piece, but this is my personal bias, I don't like single broken bits. Also I can't tell from the picture how the mouthpiece is shaped, and works.
As I said I don't particularly like any of them as they all have a fixed mouthpiece, meaning fixed to the cheek pieces.
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| cheryl makofka - 2015-03-30 1:33 PM americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 12:37 PM isn't the (3rd pic) of the 2nd snaffle a 3 piece snaffel? Is that what I should be trying him in??
I'm just trying to work out where I need to start and work my way back up. He's a LOT of attitude in one horse when he gets a wild hair. I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about with all these bits. Which is why I'm seeking advice.
Also, when I tried the bit in the first picture ( in most recent post) he was all over the place. And I really had to work to steer him. Legs, seat, hands. He actually almost dumped me once from changing directions on me so fast. SOOO I lunged him a good bit, and when he settled he did much better. ( I found out earlier that he had actually been stalled two days straight, the afternoon feeder forgot to turn him out. So he had a lot of pent up energy. Which may be why he was so all over the place. He's not a horse I would ever keep stalled without reason. He only happened to be up to have his feet trimmed that morning. )
I'm going to give it another go this evening, in a smaller work area, to just work on the basics. Why I said the last picture, only if it is a true myler, as you had success with the tom balding in a shanked bit. This way the mouthpiece is familiar. I will add to say if it is a tom balding bit or a myler I would choose that one for the reason above If it isn't one of the two bit makers, I would go to the three piece, but this is my personal bias, I don't like single broken bits. Also I can't tell from the picture how the mouthpiece is shaped, and works. As I said I don't particularly like any of them as they all have a fixed mouthpiece, meaning fixed to the cheek pieces.
I asked and yes they're myler bits. I spoke with charlie and Kate about Bug. They said they worked with him progressively in a snaffle, but Charlie preferred the results they received from a curb??? She told me he works best in a 3 piece and that and the myers are appropriate for him. I trust her judgement because she a phenomenal rider.
She told me riding him in a snaffle requires a lot more leg instruction, that in curb he tends to stay in the bridal more and so his body is where it's needed without a lot of intensive leg manuevering.
me<---- over here still clueless. This started a simple instruction to bits. Now I'm worried about my horses mouth being ruined. =/ I don't like the amount of countrol I feel that I lack in that particular snaffle that I tried him in. But I want him to have good solid foundation. Defintely going to give it another go today.
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 2:18 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-30 1:33 PM americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 12:37 PM isn't the (3rd pic) of the 2nd snaffle a 3 piece snaffel? Is that what I should be trying him in??
I'm just trying to work out where I need to start and work my way back up. He's a LOT of attitude in one horse when he gets a wild hair. I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about with all these bits. Which is why I'm seeking advice.
Also, when I tried the bit in the first picture ( in most recent post) he was all over the place. And I really had to work to steer him. Legs, seat, hands. He actually almost dumped me once from changing directions on me so fast. SOOO I lunged him a good bit, and when he settled he did much better. ( I found out earlier that he had actually been stalled two days straight, the afternoon feeder forgot to turn him out. So he had a lot of pent up energy. Which may be why he was so all over the place. He's not a horse I would ever keep stalled without reason. He only happened to be up to have his feet trimmed that morning. )
I'm going to give it another go this evening, in a smaller work area, to just work on the basics. Why I said the last picture, only if it is a true myler, as you had success with the tom balding in a shanked bit. This way the mouthpiece is familiar. I will add to say if it is a tom balding bit or a myler I would choose that one for the reason above If it isn't one of the two bit makers, I would go to the three piece, but this is my personal bias, I don't like single broken bits. Also I can't tell from the picture how the mouthpiece is shaped, and works. As I said I don't particularly like any of them as they all have a fixed mouthpiece, meaning fixed to the cheek pieces.
She told me riding him in a snaffle requires a lot more leg instruction, that in curb he tends to stay in the bridal more and so his body is where it's needed without a lot of intensive leg manuevering.
me<---- over here still clueless. This started a simple instruction to bits. Now I'm worried about my horses mouth being ruined. =/ I don't like the amount of countrol I feel that I lack in that particular snaffle that I tried him in. But I want him to have good solid foundation. Defintely going to give it another go today.
Ok - I understand where ya are coming from.
Snaffle's don't have any curb -chain action. You ask/pull with the reins and you'll get a direct contact with that side of the mouth. The curb chain that runs under the chin is the piece that encourages the face to give to your hands and eventually will teach poll pressure. It is the piece that gives you leverage when you ask with a shanked bit - it is also important to adjust this correctly on a young horse - too tight and they'll overreact to the new/different pressure.
If you haven't taught your horse to just give or soften when you pick up the reins, then yup, he'll feel like a run-away 2 year old. (I have learned this the hard way) You'll find holes in training sometimes when you go "back" in bits to a snaffle. The shanked bit that you posted above looks like a nice myler. I use this on older horses that have basic concepts down pat - like giving in a snaffle, moving off leg cues, holding their rib cages up in correct collection, and more advanced moves.
Charlie has it right when speaking with you - the shanked myler you posted is a 3 piece and is a great bit if the horse is to that point in training. If he's newly coming out of a snaffle into a shanked bit ... go with a shorter shank. The longer shanks with newer ametuer riders can hurt more than help without proper instruction and oversight. If you need to use more leg with a snaffle, ya may have missed a couple steps in teaching your horse to properly carry themselves without you holding them together .... There's much said about this in the reining world and conflicting ideas on how to acheive it.
I think you'll be just fine and Charlie sounds like a great in person source to keep working with! Good Luck! | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| lindseylou2290 - 2015-03-30 3:49 PM americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 2:18 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-30 1:33 PM americanpride08 - 2015-03-30 12:37 PM isn't the (3rd pic) of the 2nd snaffle a 3 piece snaffel? Is that what I should be trying him in??
I'm just trying to work out where I need to start and work my way back up. He's a LOT of attitude in one horse when he gets a wild hair. I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about with all these bits. Which is why I'm seeking advice.
Also, when I tried the bit in the first picture ( in most recent post) he was all over the place. And I really had to work to steer him. Legs, seat, hands. He actually almost dumped me once from changing directions on me so fast. SOOO I lunged him a good bit, and when he settled he did much better. ( I found out earlier that he had actually been stalled two days straight, the afternoon feeder forgot to turn him out. So he had a lot of pent up energy. Which may be why he was so all over the place. He's not a horse I would ever keep stalled without reason. He only happened to be up to have his feet trimmed that morning. )
I'm going to give it another go this evening, in a smaller work area, to just work on the basics. Why I said the last picture, only if it is a true myler, as you had success with the tom balding in a shanked bit. This way the mouthpiece is familiar. I will add to say if it is a tom balding bit or a myler I would choose that one for the reason above If it isn't one of the two bit makers, I would go to the three piece, but this is my personal bias, I don't like single broken bits. Also I can't tell from the picture how the mouthpiece is shaped, and works. As I said I don't particularly like any of them as they all have a fixed mouthpiece, meaning fixed to the cheek pieces.
She told me riding him in a snaffle requires a lot more leg instruction, that in curb he tends to stay in the bridal more and so his body is where it's needed without a lot of intensive leg manuevering.
me<---- over here still clueless. This started a simple instruction to bits. Now I'm worried about my horses mouth being ruined. =/ I don't like the amount of countrol I feel that I lack in that particular snaffle that I tried him in. But I want him to have good solid foundation. Defintely going to give it another go today.
Snaffle's don't have any curb -chain action. You ask/pull with the reins and you'll get a direct contact with that side of the mouth. The curb chain that runs under the chin is the piece that encourages the face to give to your hands and eventually will teach poll pressure. It is the piece that gives you leverage when you ask with a shanked bit - it is also important to adjust this correctly on a young horse - too tight and they'll overreact to the new/different pressure.
If you haven't taught your horse to just give or soften when you pick up the reins, then yup, he'll feel like a run-away 2 year old. (I have learned this the hard way) You'll find holes in training sometimes when you go "back" in bits to a snaffle. The shanked bit that you posted above looks like a nice myler. I use this on older horses that have basic concepts down pat - like giving in a snaffle, moving off leg cues, holding their rib cages up in correct collection, and more advanced moves.
Charlie has it right when speaking with you - the shanked myler you posted is a 3 piece and is a great bit if the horse is to that point in training. If he's newly coming out of a snaffle into a shanked bit ... go with a shorter shank. The longer shanks with newer ametuer riders can hurt more than help without proper instruction and oversight. If you need to use more leg with a snaffle, ya may have missed a couple steps in teaching your horse to properly carry themselves without you holding them together .... There's much said about this in the reining world and conflicting ideas on how to acheive it.
I think you'll be just fine and Charlie sounds like a great in person source to keep working with! Good Luck!
I found one with a shorter shank. He worked very nicely in it. Smoothest loping on him I've ever had, utterly relaxed, responded to one handed reining.
? could it be that I'm the problem with the snarl to a event? He is my first quarter and baby. Lot of mistakes I'm sure. I am riding some of charlies solid reining horses to work on my riding. I do great often that reining trainers can skip steps. But I had bug trained in the aspects of all around horse, not reining. Lol though Charlie did give him some spin flavor and the basics
it's all so overwhelming. ?? | |
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