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Member
Posts: 16
| Chandler's Mom - 2015-04-05 2:42 AM
whammo77 - 2015-04-05 1:51 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-04-05 12:17 AM
whammo77 - 2015-04-05 12:07 AM
Ok, let me clarify so we can move on.... she is winning 2D races and 3d races. I guess i should have elaborated more...... my bad.
That's why we want her to speed up. She's taking home money in the lower classes on a regular basis, but she's not even trying. So yes, a 16 flat (and for those who want to be extremely literal about me saying 16 flat, I'm rounding numbers; Sometimes she runs faster, sometimes slower, depending on how lazy she feels) is NOT going to win 1D races. And that's the problem. The horse has a h*ll of a lot more to give, but she's just not. I've seen what she can do when she's "in the mood", but that is few and far between. Once in a blue moon she'll go in and blow the doors off the place, but doing that once in a blue moon drives a person nuts.
So to add more details... we have 3 barrel horses, and we are rotating them enough that they don't get out of shape, but enough that they do get some good time off and get to do some trail riding and things to keep them from burning out in the arena.
Oh, and another problem.... 2-day events... oh heck no, this horse has none of that. On day 2 she won't run to save her life.
And yes, I am very thankful for the horse she is, because she is very level headed, has no gate/alley issues, isn't spooky (for the most part), isn't crazy, etc, and I trust her with my daughter. That's a heck of a lot to be thankful for. And because of that, I don't want to give up on her when I know how dang good of a horse she is. (So that's why I'm here posting). But at the same time, she is capable of doing way better than what she is. And that's why I came in here; to see if someone has dealt with a deadhead horse that had ton's of potential (and wasn't living up to it) and to see what, if anything, they did to help cure the issue.
And no, I'm not p*ssed off. I'm just answering questions so that maybe someone can help answer my questions. AND I was responding from my cell phone which I hate doing (especially going down bumpy roads....) so I tend to keep it short when I do that, and save more "elaborate" responses for an actual computer. ;)
And yes, I do appreciate the thoughtful and helpful responses we have gotten thus far.
I don't have any answers but if she's trustworthy enough to take care of your daughter, maybe just be happy with the times she's running and leave her be??
As I state above, she's not a national finals horse. We accept that. But my daughter wants to work her way up and someday ride professionally. This horse will never be the horse to go pro on. We know that. But at the same time, you have to work your way up, and this horse can take her a long way if we could just get her to try. We're not blessed with more riches that we know what to do with, so to some degree we have to make the most of what we have. We know, eventually, we're going to have to make a change to be able to reach that next level. But for now, we've climbed a few steps on the ladder, and if this lil mare can just reach her potential, we can make another step or two. So for now, we could really stand for her to be running at least close to what she's capable of.
Then I hope she gets some pep in her step and picks up the pace some for your daughter!
Thank you! I hope so too!
She has good blood lines... Easy Jet, Streakin Six, LaJollas Gold, etc etc... So she's not a papered horse from other papered horses you've never heard of. And she IS fast..... when she feels like it....
And although I got thumped for it earlier in this post, she IS a happy horse. She's always happy to be with you, has that 'twinkle' in her eye (I've seen how her eyes look when she feels bad), isn't hard to catch, etc etc. She's not aloof, ill tempered, etc. Good lord, my 5 y/o granddaughter can ride her by herself. You can crawl over her, under her, run screaming in circles around her and she doesn't care. Take her to a barrel race, and when you get up to the alley and stop, she turns back and looks at you as if to say "Ok boss, just tell me when.... I'm waiting". She doesn't hop, squirm. prance, dance, rare, kick out or anything else. It's just that when you say "GO!" you don't know if you should hang on for the ride of your life (VERY RARELY) or be prepared for a pleasure cruise (usually).
I am in no way a 'horse person'. My dad and uncles all used to train and ride back in the day (and they were freakin good), but they all passed away by the time I was 25 (over 20 years ago). I didn't inherit the "horse gene" (it skipped a generation and ended up in my daughters) and I didn't pay much attention to what they were doing, so stuff like this is foreign to me. Hand me an engine, a tool, or anything else that is NOT alive and I can fix it... I have the "mechanic gene". So if you want to bash me for being a "horse idiot", then lets talk engines... lol!
But, in my own defense, I am a little OCD about things... IF my daughter were in ballet, then I would watch every video and read every book on the subject and do my best to be thoroughly versed. Same thing goes for barrel racing and horses.... I read and watch everything I can. And in a case such as this, when everything I have read and watched has no answers to my problems, I reach out. Just sucks when some people want to beat you over the head for it......
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303
| Excitability levels change: Do you remember way back when you were a kid, and could run around outside for hours, playing some of the most ridiculous games until you were flat exhausted? But then you grew up, got older, and that no longer had the same appeal. Sure, maybe you can do physical work straight through the day, working out in the hard, mucking stalls, and unloading hay, but you don't attack it with the same zeal your younger self bounced around having fun just for the heck of it. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you, in fact, it's pretty normal for you to mature. Granted, this horse seems to have matured into a much more chill animal than she was before, but I'm going to say that these things happen. If her blood work looks good, I wouldn't worry about it.
Sometimes you can get burned out on your job: You know, you're starting something new, and it looks really exciting, and you think you're going to really like it. So once they hire you on and get you into training, you're pumped up, come to work ready to go, and throw your all into it every day, but as time wears on, you start to realize that job is really repetitive and requires a lot of your energy, and sometimes it even physically hurts to perform. Your still a good employee because it's just the way you are, so you go to work every day, do what's expected of you, but some days, it looks rainy outside, or the temperature is just too hot/cold, and you're uncomfortable, and you just don't go above and beyond in any way on those days. Then, sometimes, you come to work feeling great, put in an amazing day, and clock out.
It truly does sound to me as if her heart is just not really in it anymore.
However, I will say that waaaay back when I used to High School Rodeo, one of the toughest girls had a black mare that always looked like she was half asleep in the warm up arena, she would fall asleep hanging out by the gate, and that girl would ride her into the alley looking like a western pleasure horse, until she would pick up on her reins, whack her saddle a couple times with the end of her over under whip, and away they would go. They weren't the fastest horse out there, but they were solid and consistent, and took home a lot of average money and points.
SO, my best advice to you, is to find a happy medium with her, maybe watch the videos of her best runs and compare it to her slowest. Does your daughter push more on the slower or the faster runs? Is there a difference in the footing--even if it's the same arena, the footing can vary. Examine, not only the runs she makes, but the way she's warmed up, there could be something in how much she asked to do before going to the arena that can set her up for a bad day vs a good one.
And I'll also throw this one out there, you say that she's been vet checked, but the inconsistent running reads to me like a pain response, some days hurt more than others. It absolutely never hurts--well except your pocketbook, unfortunately--to get her a good checking over with a good lameness vet.
Edited by AlwaysCentered 2015-04-05 7:10 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
 
Location: Midwest | You made it sound like she was winning the 1D in the first post so I found that confusing.
When I would like my gelding to get a bit more pep, I add Healthy Coat supplement and I also will breeze him. Sometimes letting them run full out and then asking for a little more will get you some extra gears.
Hope this helps, and Happy Easter! :) | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I agree with Alison, I was confused then, because I thought that this barrel horse was winning barrel races as you stated in your thread. To me when you said she won lots of races, it was the whole race.
If your child is really for more speed then maybe she's ready for a step up barrel horse. | |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | If she truly was a different horse as far as energy level with the previous owner I guess I'd start by asking them exactly what they did. I'd want to know the details of their feeding & excercise program if that's what worked for her.
If she truly is a dead head I'd just value her for what she is, to me a safe quiet horse is priceless. I have one, he's a 6 year old & been this way since the day I first broke him to ride. He is an ATHLETE....in the pasture, he can run, buck & launch himself into the air like crazy. Under saddle he's been "old reliable" from the get go, he's perfectly happy to walk & trot everywhere we go. Some days I'm a little disapointed that he has no desire to reach the potential he's capable of. But I accept him for who he is & value that safe dependable young horse that I can do absolutely anything on & know he will handle the situation. | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Some horses are what they are...
First thing Ed Wright tells folks at his clinics - we can get a horse going through the pattern correctly, but that doesn't make them all 1D horses if they aren't a 1D horse. I can play basketball. I am not a WNBA player.
My opinion is - if you feel like you've tried everything and still aren't getting what you want, send the mare down the road. She sounds like one that any parent would LOVE to own for a younger kid coming up through the ranks. | |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | While reading your long and somewhat confusing dissertations, this is one statement that jumped off the page to me.....
The other reason I'd like to see her have more prep is so we can lay off the spurs and whip a little.
"Some" horses will actually slow down and refuse to run with the use of spurs or whips. Additionally, some horses need to "learn" to open up and how to RUN.....Have you ever taken this horse to a track or some place where you can actually "breeze" the horse like a race horse?
I also agree with others that some horses are only going to EVER BE a consistent 2D horse....YOU may think that she has more to give but when you are stating statistics vs. times that doesn't necessarily compute. Different arenas will naturally have faster times.....
Edited by NJJ 2015-04-05 11:35 AM
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
Coming from the standpoint of someone like me who has a very excitable, free running mare who I have to school constantly to sit down and turn a barrel....I think I would give my left arm to have this horse. Sometimes I wonder why people can't just be happy with what they have and appreciate it. But back on the subject...Red Cell.
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | whammo77 - 2015-04-03 9:34 PM We have a great little 10 y/o QH sorrel mare that we use for barrel racing. She has a very sound mind, good speed and great bloodlines. We've won a lot of races with her. The big problem is tho, she is a dead head. I have never seen a horse as lazy as she is. We've tried just about everything we know to try to give her some pep in her step. but nothing is working. Currently, she is on 4 scoops of Omelene 200 per day, 1 scoop of Ultium, 2 ounces of liquid 747, and 2 cups of Farnam Weight Builder, a little bit of alfalfa (plus regular hay and all day grazing ) and she's STILL a dead head. We've had her blood checked, we've had her worm checked (and went ahead and followed up with a power pack even tho the results were negative ), we've had her teeth checked, we've had her scoped, we've had her back checked.... I don't think there's much of any stone we've left unturned. There's just nothing wrong with her that any vet can find. When we got her, we knew she was a "push style" horse, but good lord. I've never seen a horse run a barrel race and then come out and want to go to sleep. Our other horses are all "amped up" after a race and their eyes are wide and all that good stuff. She just comes out and is like "Ok, that's over, time for a nap"...... One thing I might note is that her original owner found us on FB and was telling us about her and how she was from a colt up until she sold her around age 6 or 7.... rambunctious, liked to run and buck (playing ), etc... and we were like "Are you SURE we are talking about the same horse???" We've tried so many (safe and all natural ) concoctions that everyone SWORE would get the dead head out of her, and nothing works. The gentleman who helps my daughter train has been training probably longer than I've been alive, and came up with our current feed routine and swore it would 'bring her to life'. NOPE!!!! After several months of this regiment, STILL no change. Even he is baffled. I've seen a lot of people worried on these boards about trying supplements for fear of making their horses "hot". At this point I don't think shooting her up with speed would make her "hot" (even tho I would NEVER do that! ). You can see in her eyes that she's a happy horse, We've had her checked from stem to stern and can find no sore spots or anything that seems to bother her. No ovary problems, no tenderness anywhere. So we're at our wits end. I will not give her anything unsafe (drugs or whatever ), but I could sure use some recommendations from someone who has dealt with a horse like this. She has so much more to give, if only we could find a way to get her to kick it in to high gear. I have absolutely NO clue if this might have anything to do with it, but all of our horses are mares, and as it turns out, so are our neighbor's horses. Bring a male horse around and they all go nuts, EXCEPT her. In fact, I have never seen her demonstrate ANY signs of being in heat, which I find a little odd.... (she's never been bred either, by the way ). Thanks in advance for your consideration! 
Edited by Swannranch 2015-04-05 2:37 PM
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | I would love to have this horse. | |
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10D Crack Champion
| Any videos of this horse running?
Edited by sodapop 2015-04-05 2:09 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | whammo77 - 2015-04-05 2:59 AM
hammer_time - 2015-04-05 1:35 AM
Does she maybe just not have the heart for it anymore?
That's a legitimate question. However, this horse has the same attitude about everything in life. Even at feeding time, we go out and the other horses come running because they know what time it is, but she's just like "Ok, I'll be there when I get there" and she just meanders her way up to the barn. Once she's there. she's all about her feed... She dives in!
We jokingly call her Eeor because of her hum-drum I-don't-give-a-crap attitude.
I guess the most perplexing thing about it all is having this conversation with her original owner who described a horse that is completely opposite of the horse she is now. That's why I am very interested in her diet, because we just can't find anything else to explain it (after hundreds upon hundreds of dollars spent with the vet, chiropractor, etc ), especially if what her original owner tells us is true. And yes, the horse has a VERY loving home. She's not being beaten or abused. My daughter does most all of the work with the horses, and she has the patience of 'Jobe'. I've seen people who beat their horses into submission, and that's just not the case here. My daughter is completely against "abusive training", and is so patient and diligent in her work. She has no training, she is just one of these people that have a 'knack' for horses. I've seen her (all the way back when she was 13 ) take horses that had extreme trailer issues and within an hour or so have them loading like there was never a problem. I mean heck, we have a 2 y/o horse that we just rescued, and that horse was yanked from her mother prematurely and put out on a 20 acre pasture by itself and NEVER got handled at all. We got it 1.5 months ago, it was emaciated, underweight, undersized, and scared of the world. My daughters have been working with her non-stop and this horse is now so trusting. She'll load in a trailer, pick up her feet, and do just about anything you ask of her now. The vet came out earlier this week and was amazed at just how happy and friendly she is, when just over a month ago she trembled and lashed out when someone got near her.
So getting back to the point, our horse's attitude isn't because of mistreatment or lack of love. She's just a dead head.
As much as I hate to say it, she reminds me of my brother. The man is as lazy as the day is long. He's a very happy person, doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs, or anything like that. Loves to joke, tell stories, etc etc. And likewise, he was/is very athletic and never pursued his potential. All he wants to do is eat and sleep. We've often kidded that if there were a job for just being a "mattress tester" (aka: Just sleep on it and tell us what you think ), it would be too much effort for him. :D
But.... according to the original owner, the horse wasn't this way originally (unlike my brother who was ALWAYS this way ). So we're just trying to find something that will help her out. I'm hoping if we can help her feel 'better' and more energetic, she will be more peppy and happy and likewise will perform better. ...
Sounds like your daughter is a great hand with horses. Wishing y'all all the luck with this mare. She sounds like a great horse. Shes bred like my big gelding, and I'd take a barn full of him. Best personality in the world, fast as can be, and will do anything for me. Again, best wishes to y'all on figuring this out.
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2015-04-05 2:38 PM
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | sodapop - 2015-04-05 2:07 PM Any videos of this horse running?
This^
also, does she show any signs of being a bleeder? Maybe it's time for a step up horse and this is as good as it gets for this mare. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 126
| Have you considered Ulcers?
Nevermind... I missed where you scoped her
Edited by ShortnRound 2015-04-05 3:08 PM
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I would try treating for hindgut ulcers anyway. my dead head woke up after that. Sometimes those don't show up so well on a scope depending on where they are. I think B vitamins are absorbed through the hind gut so if they have ulcers they will not absorb them so well and be anemic. my horse only showed a slight anemic on his bloodwork | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Stop feeding her all the crap. Feed her a real grain, like oats, or rolled barley, or C.O.B. Put her on alfalfa hay and put her on red cell or lixitonic. I also will add she sounds like a perfect old ladies horse so if you decide you want to sell her, I'm interested. And yes, I am serious. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Couple questions.
1) how old is she now?
2) how long have you guys had her?
3) do you have any videos of your daughter running her
if you don't want to post them feel free to send me a PM! | |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | Actiflex 4000 seems to give horses some added pep and good for joints. Good luck. | |
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Member
Posts: 16
| Thank you all for your responses. I apologize to all of you for not responding sooner... it's been a VERY busy week. I DO realize that my original posting was somewhat "misinforming", and I DO apologize. As I said, the whole "horsemanship" gene totally skipped me.... So I am doing the best I can. I'm sorry, as much as I would like it to be different, I'm just a "mechanically" minded type of person. So I will probably say some stuff that is totally stupid. Sorry.
I haven't gotten to thoroughly read every response. I hope to tomorrow.... but a quick "browse" and response is as follows:
"Rox" is 10 y/o mare. We have had her 3 years, and she has always been like this. Yes, I have videos, and will be happy to share.
I'm out of my element here, and that's why I came in here. I mean, technique sorts of stuff, I can "kinda" see.... But when I can see that the horse is kind of "loafing along" and it seems like it's from a lack of energy, I don't know what to do. When I feel like that, I grab a bottle of 5-hour-energy. It doesn't make me wide-eyed or crazy, it just helps me to function a little bit better on those "down days". So I'm not trying to change Rox, I'm just trying to make her feel better.
Rox is a super good horse. I know that. I've been around horses all my life, and although I am horse-stupid, I can see she is a good horse. Likewise, I can see that although she posts some decent times, she's not living up to her potential. Likewise, I can see that even when she has just been raced, when she comes out of the arena she is ready to fall asleep (which she does, which I know is a little unusual). Because of that, I'm thinking (and hoping) that maybe she is just short on some nutrients, or vitamins, or something? I mean, I don't want her to run a barrel race and then come out and be totally out of control.... but at the same time, (along with her typical lack of energy) I find it odd that she can run her butt off, and then 3 minutes later be pretty much sound asleep. People, and animals, need a "cool down time" (typically). But she comes out of the arena, and her head drops and she is pretty much OUT.
Because she is so "sane", I want to give her 100 chances. As I said before, there are times she can "blow the doors off" an arena.... but those days are few and far between, and in 3 years she's NEVER been able to put up a good time on the 2nd day of a 2-day race. She either goes out and "loafs" along, or she bowls over all the barrels.
Like I said, I'm realistic... she will NEVER win a national race.... but at the same time, locally, she SHOULD be taking down some 1D races. And, on RARE occasions, she has. But MOST of the time she loafs and either ends up in the 2d or 3d.
So no, I'm NOT trying to make her "HOT" or "CRAZY", I just want her to feel better and perform better. With that, I know that someday, to keep moving up the "ladder", we will have to move on. But for now, she is capable of doing a lot more than she is giving........
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | If this were my horse I would check bloodwork. iron levels, b vitamins, electrolites, CK and cortisol and check thyroid also check how he is sleeping. I heard about a horse many years ago was tired all the time. these people lived in the high country and it turned out that a mountain lion was visiting frequently and the horse was too petrified to sleep.this would stress out the adreanal gland!
cortisol--I have energy problems and finally found that I have adreanal insuffiency/ almost addisons disease. I do not have adreanal fatique which is just a tired adreanal gland. mine only barely works despite rest. taking a stimulant does not increase output. I can drink coffee and nothing happens. it is like having your batteries on trickle charge. from my understanding Cortisol is the carrier to get what you need into the cells
Thyroid-- often this comes up normal in blood test but when the cortisol level is fixed it turns out that new blood tests will reveal that the thyroid is low functioning as well. think of all the stuff your cells need are traveling around in your blood but cant get into the cells where it is needed. finally the offramps open and all the cars are off the freeway.
If horse has ulcers then B vitiamins may not be absorbed well.
I would treat for ulcer forgut and hindgut. I wouild try rite-track for at least a week. I would also be giving CRS GOLD DFM a probiotic that is encapsulated to make it to the hindgut where needed.
I hope this information helps you, good luck
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