|
|
 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
     
Location: Broxton, Ga | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-12 6:00 PM
The more I'm reading about SI symptoms the more I think he may be having an issue with it. This will mean another vet call with injections  Which he hates but if that's what gets him out of pain
Best thing I had done to my mare. |
|
| |
|
 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Honestly, I certainly wouldn't worry about injecting anything at this point. What I see is a young horse that hasn't learned the basics of keeping his body together yet. He loped the circle nicely and has a pretty, smooth way of going. Your friend should be breaking down to a trot between barrels to pick up the correct lead. Make sure he is soft through his body and strong through hos topline before doing much barrel work.
He's a pretty boy! Good luck with him!
Edited to say... what bit is she using, and is she riding with spurs?
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-13 9:22 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Saint Stacey
| JMHO so take it or leave it but if your horse has a hunter bump, your chiro isn't doing you much good. Hunter bumps are caused by the SI being out. Put the SI back in and the bump goes away. Injecting without fixing the bump is a waste. Also, a chiro can't put the SI back in by using down pressure. I've only found one guy that can actually put the SI back in and he does it by lifting the back leg and making the horse hop over a step. Basically he puts the horse in a position to fix itself. Now I am not a chiro and maybe there is another way. If so, I haven't seen it yet though. This comment isn't meant to cause a debate. It's simply my own observation. As I said at the start, take it or leave it. |
|
| |
|
Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | does he crossfire in the roundpen with no one on him? if so I might investigate pain. what about if you do all rights or all lefts? if the proplem goes away then that would tell you if he is just having proplems with the lead changes in the pattern like many babies do. otherwise it looks like baby stuff and i am the first one to the vet LOL
Edited by kwanatha 2015-04-14 7:08 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | grinandbareit - 2015-04-13 9:15 PM
Honestly, I certainly wouldn't worry about injecting anything at this point. What I see is a young horse that hasn't learned the basics of keeping his body together yet. He loped the circle nicely and has a pretty, smooth way of going. Your friend should be breaking down to a trot between barrels to pick up the correct lead. Make sure he is soft through his body and strong through hos topline before doing much barrel work.
He's a pretty boy! Good luck with him!
Edited to say... what bit is she using, and is she riding with spurs?
He's 16 this year but supposedly trained young and ran futurity's until he was " blown up"- before I got him years ago he was used as a trail horse, mind you he's a flaming dragon down the trails! I'm not as worried now as he was rode last night in a general lesson and collected perfectly and maintained his leads all the way around- he was working in a smaller area though and it seems if he's hyper he gets a little out of control and messes his hind end lead up |
|
| |
|
Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | SKM - 2015-04-14 7:04 AM
JMHO so take it or leave it but if your horse has a hunter bump, your chiro isn't doing you much good. Hunter bumps are caused by the SI being out. Put the SI back in and the bump goes away. Injecting without fixing the bump is a waste. Also, a chiro can't put the SI back in by using down pressure. I've only found one guy that can actually put the SI back in and he does it by lifting the back leg and making the horse hop over a step. Basically he puts the horse in a position to fix itself. Now I am not a chiro and maybe there is another way. If so, I haven't seen it yet though. This comment isn't meant to cause a debate. It's simply my own observation. As I said at the start, take it or leave it.
Would you please pm me who your chiro is? I will be checking with my chiropractor about doing this to hopefully keep him from even wanting to switch his hind end around and keep him feeling good. |
|
| |
|
Go For It!
Location: Texas | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:24 AM
grinandbareit - 2015-04-13 9:15 PM
Honestly, I certainly wouldn't worry about injecting anything at this point. What I see is a young horse that hasn't learned the basics of keeping his body together yet. He loped the circle nicely and has a pretty, smooth way of going. Your friend should be breaking down to a trot between barrels to pick up the correct lead. Make sure he is soft through his body and strong through hos topline before doing much barrel work.
He's a pretty boy! Good luck with him!
Edited to say... what bit is she using, and is she riding with spurs?
He's 16 this year but supposedly trained young and ran futurity's until he was " blown up"- before I got him years ago he was used as a trail horse, mind you he's a flaming dragon down the trails! I'm not as worried now as he was rode last night in a general lesson and collected perfectly and maintained his leads all the way around- he was working in a smaller area though and it seems if he's hyper he gets a little out of control and messes his hind end lead up
Well 16 definitely isn't young, lol. It is so hard to say that it is soundness with out seeing him in other places. At 16 I probably wouldn't be doing any barrel work with him, unless he just doesn't know his job. If he does his job then just keep him legged up. Lots of collection exercises to keep his topline strong, and maybe a series of Adequan to help him maintain his joints. Plenty of bending and stretching to keep him soft and flexible. Swimming would be good too.
Good luck!
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-14 11:31 AM
|
|
| |
|
Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | kwanatha - 2015-04-14 7:05 AM
does he crossfire in the roundpen with no one on him? if so I might investigate pain. what about if you do all rights or all lefts? if the proplem goes away then that would tell you if he is just having proplems with the lead changes in the pattern like many babies do. otherwise it looks like baby stuff and i am the first one to the vet LOL
He does not usually crossfire in the round pen or lounging even in a larger arena. His right turns in general seem smoother than his left and I thought about switching him to be a lefty at first barrel. He has had the bad habit of dropping his shoulder into 2nd barrel and not really bending much. He was kind of sticking his ribs into the barrel anticipating it l, but with some work and drills he's gotten better. I'm thinking more drills and trying to really engage his hindquarters |
|
| |
|
  Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | Leo - 2015-04-12 5:01 PM
I've had 2 that crossfired when their hips were out. A trip to the chiro and they're both back in line. Hope this helps. :)
This. |
|
| |
|
Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this.
ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up.
Edited by FirstFirewater 2015-04-14 11:42 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Interesting read....mine will crossfire when roundpenning or loping, but won't under saddle. But he also gets worked up when RP-ing and lunging and doesn't like it in general and gets really worked up and can get hot so maybe it IS a brain thing. Having a Chiro out soon as I know he responds well to that. Mine just turned 17 and just had hocks and SI injected so I really hope it's not pain!! |
|
| |
|
 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up.
He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too. |
|
| |
|
 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 1:19 PM
FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up.
He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
Exactly. |
|
| |
|
Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
This ^^^
|
|
| |
|
Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 5:00 PM
Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that.
Yes I would, then I would work on something else.
Barrel racing lessons don't have to be strictly about the barrels, you can work one barrel, circles, pylons, dry work,
And horsemanship, when to call it quits, and focus on something else
I watched the first video, I would get X-rays of his hocks, wringing his tail like he does during turns, I would say he is in pain.
Flexion tests are not 100% accurate, I have a gelding had very little cartilage in pastern and coffin as a 6 yr old, kept him sound by injecting, at age of 18 passed flexion test with flying colors by a vet who never knew his history.
Blown up horses you start them gradually, no expos, one run events, this is how they regain their confidence, you don't run them into the ground.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-04-15 10:45 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
| FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 5:00 PM Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too. I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that.
Yes. Especially on a horse like this. He felt like he was being punished for doing everything right. If he did what was asked, correctly, then walk around on a loose rein, or long trot, or whatever you regime you use to fit one up, but once they correctly do what I'm asking on the pattern, they are DONE on the pattern for that day. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | cheryl makofka - 2015-04-15 10:43 PM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 5:00 PM Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too. I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that. Yes I would, then I would work on something else. Barrel racing lessons don't have to be strictly about the barrels, you can work one barrel, circles, pylons, dry work, And horsemanship, when to call it quits, and focus on something else I watched the first video, I would get X-rays of his hocks, wringing his tail like he does during turns, I would say he is in pain. Flexion tests are not 100% accurate, I have a gelding had very little cartilage in pastern and coffin as a 6 yr old, kept him sound by injecting, at age of 18 passed flexion test with flying colors by a vet who never knew his history. Blown up horses you start them gradually, no expos, one run events, this is how they regain their confidence, you don't run them into the ground.
This exactly. If you ran him and he worked great, STOP working him. Go back around the barrels at a walk if anything. Always quit on a good note! And at events make ONE RUN and no exhibitions. |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 4:00 PM
Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that.
Yes, you do quit. ALWAYS look for a place to stop. If it's a paying customer, discount the fee for stopping so soon and explain why. Keeping a barrel horses sanity and them wanting to do their job is more important than a few bucks. Then next time you do flat work since the rider needs it and you keep the horse off the pattern. |
|
| |
|
Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | SKM - 2015-04-16 4:43 AM
FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 4:00 PM
Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that. Yes, you do quit. ALWAYS look for a place to stop. If it's a paying customer, discount the fee for stopping so soon and explain why. Keeping a barrel horses sanity and them wanting to do their job is more important than a few bucks. Then next time you do flat work since the rider needs it and you keep the horse off the pattern.
agreed. I drove 1.25 hr to lessons and they would last 10-40 minutes. Trainer would try to discount fees but I insisted on paying full pony. Not her fault my horse was telling me he had enough in 10 minutes, I still booked a full spot. that horse came around in his own time and got over his attitude. Maybe because he knew we were listening to him, which is how we found out he had a stifle problem and got him fixed. I am so glad I did not push him and lose his trust. He never blew up with me he just would stop and be lazy. A previous trainer would push him and well he got bucked off a couple times.
Listen to your horse he is telling you something. just about any horse with almost any problem can be sound for a short period. we can all keep it together when we have to. Then we just break as we can not take it anymore. I can not tell you how many people/ trainers/vets told me my horse was perfectly sound and just needed brain surgery. |
|
| |
Folks on-line