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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| HorsesNHarleys - 2015-05-20 9:29 AM
I had this happen to my horse before. Except we were injectiong antibiotics IM. I wasn't injection so not sure if they didn't pull back first or what. but like 5 seconds after shot horse lunged, reared, rolled, ect all over the yard before finally getting up and taking off. ran through several fences. Found her later on an old back road banged up but ok. Like you I prayed she would die before she kept suffering or ran out into the rd and got hit and killed someone..... Scariest thing ever. Horses are not for the faint of heart, when things go bad, THEY GO BAD! Glad your boy is doing better.
The antibiotic you gave did it have procamine (sp) in it, found in penicillin not sure what other antibiotics.
Had this happen twice with penicillin, both time withdrew no blood administered 1/4 withdrew one had blood so I stopped, the other no blood during the entire procedure.
The one where I hit blood, I stopped withdrew and didn't give any more, within 5 min she was running around the pasture, she was fin after.
The one where there was no blood evidence vet said I must have been too close to a vessel, he flipped over the panels, through two fences, thankfully ended up with no scratches and settled down in 30 min. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FLITASTIC - 2015-05-20 10:42 AM
I use a 1" needle 20gauge for IV shots. You have to really push on the vein for it to pop out but the 1" virtually eliminates this risk unless you go straight in and not parallel. But no judgement here! It takes so much to keep these performance horses on the road its no wonder it doesnt happen more often.
Agree, I was also taught to examine the color of the blood when withdrawing, an artery is a brighter red.
I was also taught withdraw then inject no more then 1cc wait a few seconds withdraw, give a little more, and repeat till the syringe is all gone. It takes me about 2 min to inject 10cc
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
 
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I haven't done this exact thing. But I was very scared I had killed my horse. That's why if there is an oral option I usually chose that one.
Very glad it turned out if not happy at least no serious damage done. I use a 1" needle. Anything longer is a waste and increases the possibility of getting in the wrong spot. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | cheryl makofka - 2015-05-20 12:32 PM FLITASTIC - 2015-05-20 10:42 AM I use a 1" needle 20gauge for IV shots. You have to really push on the vein for it to pop out but the 1" virtually eliminates this risk unless you go straight in and not parallel. But no judgement here! It takes so much to keep these performance horses on the road its no wonder it doesnt happen more often. Agree, I was also taught to examine the color of the blood when withdrawing, an artery is a brighter red. I was also taught withdraw then inject no more then 1cc wait a few seconds withdraw, give a little more, and repeat till the syringe is all gone. It takes me about 2 min to inject 10cc
See that's just the thing I have recognized the color of the blood before! I'm pretty sure I didn't inject 1 cc and he was flipping. Placing a clean unused needle without syringe is the only way to be absolutely sure you don't do what I did. |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| FLITASTIC - 2015-05-20 10:42 AM
I use a 1" needle 20gauge for IV shots. You have to really push on the vein for it to pop out but the 1" virtually eliminates this risk unless you go straight in and not parallel. But no judgement here! It takes so much to keep these performance horses on the road its no wonder it doesnt happen more often.
^^this^^
I too, will only use a 1" needle, stay shallow and stay terrified. I can get the job done and have never become casual about it, and have been "lucky" so far. But since I had a bad experience with Tetracycline (which is VERY thick and given 60ccs at a time), where the mare had very small jugular vein, a very muscled neck and no one to assist me. She moved and I did not get needle repositioned before a little slipped outside the vein, her neck blew up ('tho not as badly as when the vet did the very same thing on a larger scale).
Now I am terribly hootchie about the whole thing and administer anything I can orally and get the vet to do mainlining if at all possible.
I am sorry for those of you who have been UN lucky, that bites!
Edited by rodeoveteran 2015-05-20 1:19 PM
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Yep. I've done it. It's horrifying. I wasn't praying my precious guy would die, I was wishing I would. He came out of it about ten minutes later. The best advice I can give is only mainline your own horses, and to remain very focused and slow while you're doing it. The vein is right under the skin, stay shallow! |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3314
Location: Jersey Girl | Wow that is scary. I have only done IV once and never did it again because I am not comfortable doing it. |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | You have saved many equines by sharing. BRAVO! |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | fulltiltfilly - 2015-05-20 2:40 PM Wow that is scary. I have only done IV once and never did it again because I am not comfortable doing it.
I won't IV a horse either. I've had many people scoff at me for that reason, but whatev. |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| ACEINTHEHOLE - 2015-05-20 10:34 AM To the OP, I also am a liscensed RVT. While working in an equine hospital, I too, hit the artery. I went sprinting from the barn, through the exam room, into the lab to get the epinephrine. The doctor that was in the exam room, with a client, knew I was out doing treatments, so he automatically knew what I had done. As I came sprinting back through the exam room to the barn, he followed. He gave some epi and we watched as the horse finally realaxed and came back around. I was scared to death.. just knew the horse would die and I would be fired. He calmly told me the horse would be fine, and I will never forget what he said next. He said "if you do this job for any amount of time, you are going to hit the artery. It has happened to us all, and will happen at least once to everyone.". It wasn't that you were not paying attention, or that you did something wrong, it just happens sometimes.
I saw an Vet student do this at a Equine/ortho surgery practice I teched at for awhile. We always gave banamine after joint injections....had a big old gray rope horse in the stocks and down he went and seizured. Anesthetized him quickly and drug him to recovery stall and he was fine. My boss said the same, and then and there I learned how to properly give an IV shot. The higher up the on the neck you go the better you are since the veins don't run side by side until further down the neck. |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| rodeoveteran - 2015-05-20 1:18 PM FLITASTIC - 2015-05-20 10:42 AM I use a 1" needle 20gauge for IV shots. You have to really push on the vein for it to pop out but the 1" virtually eliminates this risk unless you go straight in and not parallel. But no judgement here! It takes so much to keep these performance horses on the road its no wonder it doesnt happen more often. ^^this^^ I too, will only use a 1" needle, stay shallow and stay terrified. I can get the job done and have never become casual about it, and have been "lucky" so far. But since I had a bad experience with Tetracycline (which is VERY thick and given 60ccs at a time ), where the mare had very small jugular vein, a very muscled neck and no one to assist me. She moved and I did not get needle re positioned before a little slipped outside the vein, her neck blew up ('tho not as badly as when the vet did the very same thing on a larger scale ). Now I am terribly hootchie about the whole thing and administer anything I can orally and get the vet to do mainlining if at all possible. I am sorry for those of you who have been UN lucky, that bites!
You really need to visualize the vein, take as long as you need, and remember you are only going right under the skin, just sub Q! |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Murphy - 2015-05-20 9:42 AM If anyone bashes you, they are obviously not a horse person. I've never met a wise and competent horse person that hasn't made mistakes before. Thank you for the PSA, it may help to save a lot of horses in the future. I'm glad he is doing ok!
I agree... |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Crazy, ill be forwarding this to my daughter. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| so sorry you had to go thru this!
I have had a similar experience, giving a penicillin based shot and according to my vet I must have nicked a blood vessel. He said he's seen the reaction before. No sooner than I shut the stall door his eyes bulged, nostrils flared, and he was TERRIFIED of EVERYTHING in his stall, his hay, his bucket, the feeder, he was spinning and darn near backing himself into a sitting position as he had no where to go. I was praying he wouldn't try to jump out the window! It maybe lasted 2 or 3 minutes, but it felt like an eternity.
Vet said, it gets up into the brain (something like that) and can cause reactions like that.
Scary stuff! This particular horse has heaves and has had a LOT of shots in his day and only twice has this happened to him. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| I'm very sorry this happened to you and your horse, but THANK YOU for sharing your story. The vet that taught me, many years ago, to hit a vein NEVERRRRR mentioned this to me. I'm very blessed that this didn't happen to me, because I've given many doses of Banimine. Another vet explained what could happen if the needle was in the wrong spot. I am not an uneducated horse owner either. I now remove the needle and administer the drug the correct way. Many prayers for you and the horse. Thank you again for educating others! |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | I've always used a 3/4" needle and haven't had this happen yet. I did see it happen one time at a horse show. They thought they had killed their horse. But he was fine a hour later and won his class. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| star1218 - 2015-05-20 3:44 PM
so sorry you had to go thru this!
I have had a similar experience, giving a penicillin based shot and according to my vet I must have nicked a blood vessel. He said he's seen the reaction before. No sooner than I shut the stall door his eyes bulged, nostrils flared, and he was TERRIFIED of EVERYTHING in his stall, his hay, his bucket, the feeder, he was spinning and darn near backing himself into a sitting position as he had no where to go. I was praying he wouldn't try to jump out the window! It maybe lasted 2 or 3 minutes, but it felt like an eternity.
Vet said, it gets up into the brain (something like that) and can cause reactions like that.
Scary stuff! This particular horse has heaves and has had a LOT of shots in his day and only twice has this happened to him.
Procamine reaction it isn't the penicillin that causes it, it is the local anesthetic mixed in the penicillin.
The procamine stops the brain from processing and if the brain doesn't restart it kills them, that is why it is always important to withdraw with penicillin, and even that is no guarantee as my first horse who had the reaction no evidence of blood when I withdrew the 4 times during administration |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Thanks for sharing this as it is a great reminder. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| Thank you for sharing, I IV and have heard many stories, but this thread has great info! So question: if you place the needle and you do happen to hit the artery and the blood is squirting and not dripping, you just reposition to find the vein? Won't the horse still seizure or have an episode? |
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | I feel stupid I had no idea! Thanks for sharing! I give I'VE shots now and then but not often! |
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