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  Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
   
Location: Carpenter, WY | I probably shouldn't stick my nose into this one, but know the original poster and have a hard time thinking she could be rude and p!ssy over the phone. Also, if this is the same mare that was bred to Slim, the mare is kept in great shape and was so easy to handle and was a true pleasure to be around. Perhaps both sides should take a deep breath, step back and just try to work to get the mare in foal.
Breeding time is so stressful. You've got a bunch of money spent between vets, stallion and everything else. Stallion owners don't want to get a bad reputation for shipping bad stuff and can get very defensive, and mare owners just want to get their mare in foal as efficiently and cost effective as possible and sometimes don't realize the kazillion and one things that can go wrong. Not going to do either party any good pointing fingers at each other.
Edited by teehaha 2015-06-09 9:36 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SG. - 2015-06-09 6:01 AM Wings I think it was very important for your side to be heard
Ditto Ditto Ditto  |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I find it shamefull that the mare owners vet spoke of their clients in such an ill manner ( calling them a bully) and if so I certainly hope that is exactly what they said. Telling the world of that conversation has just put that relationship in jeapordy and I would never use a vet that spouts off like that. That vet could loose other clients as well. |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | I think this should have never been brought on this board. Breeding can be a crap shoot; a lot accusations are being slung back and forth and it can be handled a million BETTER ways. IMO |
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 Uh....never mind
Posts: 2696
Location: Midwest Farmer's Daughter: Central Illinois |  |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Something like this should have been kept between the mare owner and the stallion owner, mare owner needs to rethink how this was handled. I know that all mare's will not settle the first time and AI'ing can be really tricky. And sometimes its not the fault of the sperm it could be the mare too. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas |  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402
Location: Arizona | Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-09 8:34 AM Something like this should have been kept between the mare owner and the stallion owner, mare owner needs to rethink how this was handled. I know that all mare's will not settle the first time and AI'ing can be really tricky. And sometimes its not the fault of the sperm it could be the mare too.
Thank you Southtxponygirl You are so right |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | kwanatha - 2015-06-09 9:59 AM
I find it shamefull that the mare owners vet spoke of their clients in such an ill manner ( calling them a bully) and if so I certainly hope that is exactly what they said. Telling the world of that conversation has just put that relationship in jeapordy and I would never use a vet that spouts off like that. That vet could loose other clients as well.
THIS ^^^^^^ |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402
Location: Arizona | Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-09 7:54 AM SG. - 2015-06-09 6:01 AM Wings I think it was very important for your side to be heard Ditto Ditto Ditto
Thank you. You guys know our stallions, our reputation and us. I appreciate your support. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | wings - 2015-06-09 9:00 AM kwanatha - 2015-06-09 7:59 AM I find it shamefull that the mare owners vet spoke of their clients in such an ill manner ( calling them a bully) and if so I certainly hope that is exactly what they said. Telling the world of that conversation has just put that relationship in jeapordy and I would never use a vet that spouts off like that. That vet could loose other clients as well. Vet did not disclose any conversation, just said the people were abrasive. The vet also has an obligation to us as the Stallion owner to inform us of all situations regarding the mare's fertility and our semen.
No you disclosed a conversation of a vet bad mouthing his/her clients. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402
Location: Arizona | ruggedchica - 2015-06-08 5:33 PM I think I would at least have waited to verify whether the mare was in foal before I ever called the stallion owner and pointed fingers. Not sure exactly what you were trying to accomplish by calling. Stallion owners work hard on their end and a whole lot can go wrong between collection and AI'ing the mare that can affect semen quality.
Thank you, Thank you Thank you Ruggedchica. Truer words have never been spoken. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | I want to add this: I compare breeding to playing a slot machine most of the time. A lot of money goes in and it's a gamble whether you get a payoff.
I liked the good old days when I had a lot of land and my own stallion. It was easy that way!!
I bred my one and only mare on foal heat. I'm going to be elated if she settles. Every year, I ask myself WHY I do this.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402
Location: Arizona | Ok, we always work hard to keep a good reputation, and are very proud of our Stallions and what they produce. Here is what we will offer Sam.Kappen (and her mother who is signer of the contract) You wanted to come on public forum and give us a bad rap - so to prove we are good honest people who always try to make things right (even though the vet said everything on our end was fine) we will refund your breeding fee (not the shipping fees as that was actual money out of our pocket). However, and based on the fact you don't think there is anyway your mare could get in foal with the semen we sent, we will require that the vet give your mare a shot of lutalyse whether she is in foal or not. That way you have your breeding fee back, and your mare has been recyled and ready to rebreed to any other stallion of your choice within the next 7 to 12 days. You have the option of asking your vet to give the shot 6 days after ovulation to hurry the rebreeding along, or you can wait for the pregnancy check. In any event we must hear from the vet that the shot has been given before we will send the breeding fee back.
We must hear back from both you Sam.Kappen and your Mother (signer of the contract and actual person who made the phone call) here on public forum and in a phone call to accept these terms and set up getting your breeding fee back.
Let me know
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I asked if this was the first time this mare has been bred A.I. because some mares, just will not settle with shipped semen. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | wings - 2015-06-09 11:29 AM Ok, we always work hard to keep a good reputation, and are very proud of our Stallions and what they produce. Here is what we will offer Sam.Kappen (and her mother who is signer of the contract) You wanted to come on public forum and give us a bad rap - so to prove we are good honest people who always try to make things right (even though the vet said everything on our end was fine) we will refund your breeding fee (not the shipping fees as that was actual money out of our pocket). However, and based on the fact you don't think there is anyway your mare could get in foal with the semen we sent, we will require that the vet give your mare a shot of lutalyse whether she is in foal or not. That way you have your breeding fee back, and your mare has been recyled and ready to rebreed to any other stallion of your choice within the next 7 to 12 days. You have the option of asking your vet to give the shot 6 days after ovulation to hurry the rebreeding along, or you can wait for the pregnancy check. In any event we must hear from the vet that the shot has been given before we will send the breeding fee back.
We must hear back from both you Sam.Kappen and your Mother (signer of the contract and actual person who made the phone call) here on public forum and in a phone call to accept these terms and set up getting your breeding fee back.
Let me know
Actually, nobody here would have known who the stallion owner was or facility if you hadnt of posted in the first place. By your posting and responce we became aware of the who's in this game. There was no names mentioned what so ever. Just thought I'd throw that out there. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | wings - 2015-06-09 11:29 AM
Ok, we always work hard to keep a good reputation, and are very proud of our Stallions and what they produce. Here is what we will offer Sam.Kappen (and her mother who is signer of the contract) You wanted to come on public forum and give us a bad rap - so to prove we are good honest people who always try to make things right (even though the vet said everything on our end was fine) we will refund your breeding fee (not the shipping fees as that was actual money out of our pocket). However, and based on the fact you don't think there is anyway your mare could get in foal with the semen we sent, we will require that the vet give your mare a shot of lutalyse whether she is in foal or not. That way you have your breeding fee back, and your mare has been recyled and ready to rebreed to any other stallion of your choice within the next 7 to 12 days. You have the option of asking your vet to give the shot 6 days after ovulation to hurry the rebreeding along, or you can wait for the pregnancy check. In any event we must hear from the vet that the shot has been given before we will send the breeding fee back.
We must hear back from both you Sam.Kappen and your Mother (signer of the contract and actual person who made the phone call) here on public forum and in a phone call to accept these terms and set up getting your breeding fee back.
Let me know
Ok...well...I don't have a single dog in this fight...and I would NEVER have known what stallion or what farm or any idea who the OP was talking about if the Stallion owner had not come on here to be sure we all know. So any bad rap the stallion owner may have or have not gotten is really on them as far as this forum post goes.
And I tend to agree that the vet bad mouthing the mare owner and that being disclosed here wasn't very professional. Why would a vet do that? Unless maybe the stallion owner is a more important client? ($$?) Just not a good idea as in this case...it can sure get back around to the owners. And with it being used as a defense here by the Stallion owner...clearly it has.
Should the OP have brought this here? Probably not...but...Well...did they think this was an anonymous place to ask questions and vent? Maybe...but it's a small world and I'm not greatly surprised that the Stallion owner came on to defend themselves. I can understand that. But I don't think the tone of the stallion owner's response...particularly this offer...really portray the image they would want. The details of how the two parties work this out should probably just be between them.
This is just a total outsider's opinion. As I only have these posts to go by. |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | This thread has really made me appreciate the stallion owners with whom I've had the pleasure of working with. They took time to educate me and talk me through the process. And, the one time I did call to report about the semen motility, they seemed grateful and held their breath with me until the ultrasound. Although I've only done this twice, we all (vets, stud owners, and my family) shared the disappointment, and ultimately the excitement, from start to finish. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I do exactly as my vet tells me to do. That is what I pay him to do. The stallion owner that I deal with is terrific and I would not think of calling her. The motility right after you take the semen out of the packing is going to be low anyway. Stallion owner has had tto deal with enough from me. I try to stay on the best of terms since it makes life easier and she has gone way beyond what is necessary |
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Member
Posts: 38
| As a Equine Repro. specialist, and a stallion/mare owner I will tell you that it is not uncommon for quality to go down....
Here are reasons as to why;
1. Improper collection, cooling, cryo(freezing), shipping, etc.
2. Improper handling from Repro. specialist(this could be a vet or specialist)
3. Over collecting
4. Improper nutrition on either animals
5. Mare can have issues
I will say this... My young stallion I am breeding this year is his first time.. We started a month prior to breeding dates with clients to collect him and train him on the dummie... He knew his job not a problem, however, he had to go through this process to be "cleaned out" , if you will, to rid the organs of dead sperm. However, he started at 40% motility, with a concentration of 400... This means 40% of the population was viable however normal concentration of semen is up to 300, and good ideal motility rates are 60-70. During this time I had a broodmare come in and decided to go ahead and use it..... This essentially was straight from collection to mare.... she is pregnant and she wasn't ideal due to some issues with the bakery...
We collected him a couple of times more and by the end of things he now maintains a 70-80% motility even with frozen, and 600 concentration. Very high for a stallion. The key for this is nutrition being optimal and giving higher protein.
So when mare owners contact me I let them know up front and educate them to the in depth understanding of what goes on...A lot of my mare owners will come here because they can get it all done in house... However, I have sent a good bit of frozen semen around the US with the various stallions we have here... I would not be offended if a mare owner called saying they have 40% motility, especially because we shipped the lab results with the semen... there is also a clause in the contract that if for some reason the motility they receive is different than what is shipped that by them signing and us, we the stallion owners are not liable. However, we also do a LFG that cost more, but we ship semen (3) times for the same mare until the VET confirms a pregnancy, and reasoning as to why there is not a pregnancy prior to sending semen for any additional shipments. This usually cost $1,000.00.
In my experience there are plenty of mares that can conceive with 40% motility. Everyone does things different so I can't say on the stallion owners side, but if there's 40%, and they don't have anything listed above, there's no reason expect poor semen and handling then I would send ... |
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