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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
   
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | ILuvSnap - 2015-06-09 11:58 AM She has never been cinchy once in 4 years. I usually tighten it right away just enough to hold the saddle in place. I walk to trailer to grab her bell boots, walk back to her, put those on, then tighten a little bit more. Thn I go grab her bridle, bridle her, and then that's when I walk her a few steps to finish tightening before I get on. I guess I will try walking her between each time I tighten the saddle although I find it extremely odd she was fine with our routine for 4 years and decided it's not ok now. I also will try my old saddle just to be sure it isn't the new one causing this. The new saddle has a mohair cinch, my old one had more of a neoprene type. I am working on getting an appointment set up with her chiropractor in case she is sore and will likely also chat with our vet. Sorry if this sounds like rambling, I'm typing on my phone very quickly on my lunch break :)
I was going to suggest chiro and see that you are setting up for one.  |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: Nowhere Land | Could be any number of things, she could be out somewhere in her spine, hips shoulders? Could be an Ill fitting saddle, I know you had said this has never happened before and youve had her for some time.. horses backs sometimes change with age.. Could also be Ulcers, Possibly Neurological problem.. Lymes disease.. Vitamin B or E deficiency? pinched Vegus Vein ..? Could be quite a few things. |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I read through the comments really fast so I may have missed some information....
First, great suggestions on getting her teeth checked etc, look at chiro, ulcers, etc etc. A great vet can help you with a lot of that.
Some ideas that come to mind....
I read "new saddle"....are you certain it DOES fit her properly? What brand is it? Could you have it inspected to make sure there isn't anything wrong with it? My old rodeo gelding would buck when I first put a Double J LM saddle on him shortly after buying it used. I knew this was not normal, so I sent the saddle back to double J for inspection. They found a piece of rawhide that was out of place (i don't remember details on how or where), fixed it for free, and we were good to go.
Check that, then look at your saddle pad, does it fit well? Is it pinching her withers at all? Is it neoprene?
I think you said you were using a mohair cinch so that rules out any pinching/grabbing of a neoprene one.
Some horses can become "cold backed" or "cinchy" even after years of being fine, if something starts to hurt them. Or if you got the girth too tight a few times. Never tie her when you saddle, maybe loop the rope but don't tie it, and never even begin to tighten her cinch until you walk her. If it is a girth problem, say if she's doing it because the girth hurt her at one point, you can work her out of it. I had to work a few horses out of it. It takes time and patience.
But honestly it could be a variety of things for sure. Just be careful, go slow, be patient, because a horse that flips is not only dangerous to humans, they can kill themselves doing it.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 742
| What brand of saddle do you use? |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | kramerica - 2015-06-10 2:12 PM What brand of saddle do you use?
Was wondering the same thing, what brand of saddle are you using? Do you have a picture of your horse tacked up that you can post here? |
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Veteran
Posts: 269
| Had a mare a long time ago act very similar. Someone (I think a vet) told me her "mare vein/milk vein" may be getting pinched. Maybe your new saddle/cinch arrangement is digging into the vein or pinching it when she moves. We solved the problem by cinching up in even slower stages than I had been. |
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| Since you have stated this happens after being bridled up .....I guess I will be the only Sherlock that will ask you to change her bit to another of the same type or as close as possible and also the headstall.
READ NUMBER 8 and 9 first ... lol
1.)If you are using some kind of jointed mouth or o-ring snaffle ... rub and feel all over the bits especially where the joints where bit is moveable and look at the wear where bit attaches to the ring and add bit guards to keep from pinching her corners of the mouth if this is what is happening. Go to Clinton Anderson store and look at the offset O-ring bit there for around $45.. it will not pinch the corners of a horses mouth .. he bought the patent from my old bit maker and I have used these offset o-rings for years and years from breaking to old horses. If your bit .. headstall rig has a curb chain .. change it out. .. Same if you use a tie down change the nose piece and the girth strap.
2.) If you have conchos or bling on your head stall there could be a prick from the hardware ..
3.) She may have bumped her head at the poll or between her ears and when a certain pressure angle is applied to headstall such as leading you get the flipping ..
4.) Found a nail head in a new saddle pricking my horses by repeatedly rubbing my hands in the fleece ... my nail was at the front bar under the swells where they tack the leather to the swells ..
5.) All girths are not made the same.. she could be getting an elbow pinch from the girth buckle ... or a breastbone crunch from a narrow cinch. IMO barrel racing saddles all should use roper cinches since the saddles are so tiny and do not spread a riders weight around well. The more cinch you have under the belly spreads the pressure and can even use less since it covers a larger area with less slip. This cinch has a flat head on it so your leather will pull evenly thru the cinch .. look hard .. this is not a typical round ring cinch buckle. Dennis' stuff is a little more pricey than normal horse junk but well worth it in the long run. Hand wash mohair with woolite and hang in sun to dry and sanitize at the same time. Cinch will last a life time. If you don't understand his how to fit pictures PM me to explain. http://www.dmtack.com/products/11cr-dm-roper-cincha/
6.) Let's call this a simple wither shim to fit the horse to about any saddle you own .. best video from a pro that explains what/why she is using ... https://youtu.be/l4iVhzeegyk ... buying a saddle for each horse is nonsense ..
7.) Last but not least ... check her mouth down below gum level and see if she might have a broken piece of a wolf tooth that is tender or can be felt. When you go to lead a horse with bridle on .. it is one of the few times that bit pressure is placed on the front of the bars that can hit her front bottom teeth or a broken piece of wolf tooth. At the same time .. if you have a worn or poorly made bit and pull straight ahead the center could pinch her tongue or she could get her tongue over it which some horses will flip when they try to take a breath of air and think they have swallowed their tongue when they can't breathe for that one second ... up and over they go ..
8.) Saddle her and for the next month lead her around with halter only and then bridle her and lead her and see if you get any action ... this will let you know it has something to do with your bit and/or headstall setup .. whoops thought I put this first .. lol
9.) New saddle rig is awful suspicious of causing the problem ... since she is flipping after you bought it ... try your best to have her on grass or sandy soft dirt when you bridle her ... they can bash their head like a watermelon when flipping on concrete etc ..
GOOD LUCK .. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| I bought a brand new Double J. I don't know a ton about saddle fit but the dealer actually placed the saddle on my horse and told me it fit well. It appears to be less narrow than my old saddle, which was obviously causing pinching that I could see. I use a 5 star saddle pad. I've had it for a few years so it probably is time to get a new one. They hold up so well I guess I'm not positive when you need to upgrade. She was at the chiropractor in March/April sometime just go make sure she wasn't sore before we started running this year, but I am working on getting somethin set up with him. He doesn't live close to me. She also had her teeth checked during that same time. I have tried cinching her very slowly and walking her between tightening it, and so far so good. This was with the new saddle.
I will post photos of her tacked up and such after work tonight or tomorrow. May not get a chance to ride tonight. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| ILuvSnap - 2015-06-11 6:09 AM I bought a brand new Double J. I don't know a ton about saddle fit but the dealer actually placed the saddle on my horse and told me it fit well. It appears to be less narrow than my old saddle, which was obviously causing pinching that I could see. I use a 5 star saddle pad. I've had it for a few years so it probably is time to get a new one. They hold up so well I guess I'm not positive when you need to upgrade. She was at the chiropractor in March/April sometime just go make sure she wasn't sore before we started running this year, but I am working on getting somethin set up with him. He doesn't live close to me. She also had her teeth checked during that same time. I have tried cinching her very slowly and walking her between tightening it, and so far so good. This was with the new saddle. I will post photos of her tacked up and such after work tonight or tomorrow. May not get a chance to ride tonight.
That may have been your problem, sounds like it is getting figured out ... I have no other words of advice but Good Luck! |
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Double Js are real nice, but maybe it just doesn't fit her and it pinched when she moved. I would go back to the old saddle for a while and see if she does it. You certainly want to nip this in the bud as quickly as possible so it doesn't become a habit! Hope you figure it out! Scary! That story the one poster told about going to the hospital was scary! |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
I feel your pain. I've had my gelding since he was a 5 year old and he is now 20. He has always been a perfect horse about saddling, tying...everything really. About 7 years ago I was at a big 3 day barrel race and I had tacked him up in his stall. Went to go lead him out and the sucker flew backwards. Ripped the reins right out of my hand and spun me around. He hit the back wall so hard I'm pretty sure the whole barn shook. I didnt know if he had spooked or what had caused that. I just grabbed him and carried on and he was fine. Since that day, you CAN NOT cinch him tight if he is tied. And he will even still pull away from me sometimes after I cinch him up and try to walk him away. No idea what causes it and I probably wont ever know. But when he does it you cant hold him. I just have to catch him when he's done. |
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