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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
 
| Both where great horses different times and different horses. Both are freaks. I like both they have different things to give. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
  
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-06-09 7:01 PM
You have to respect the other jockeys and owners for not putting a couple of rabbits in to try to tire AMERICAN PHAROAH out early in the race or run up on his heels and herd him into a faster pace on the backside like they have done other contenders that were not from the blue blood state of Kentucky. If anyone was going to win the triple crown ... it was going to be one of their own blue bloods ..
SECRETARIAT won the triple crown in 1973 while running 12 races that year ... 6 including the triple crown races and then 6 others afterwards coming in 2nd in two of these. His LTE's are ... 21 16-3-1 $1,616,808 and per race avg is $62,705
AMERICAN PHAROAH won the triple crown in 2015 while running 5 races so far in 2015..... they will run him in the Breeders Cup for sure since it has a 5 million dollar purse ...
LTE"S are 8 7-0-0 $4,530,300 and per race avg is $566,288 ....
Since the purses have changed dramatically since 1973 I do not see how your average per race relates. To me a better comparison would be their times run in the same races. Example American Pharoah ---Derby 2.03.o2 Preakness 1.58.46 Belmont 2.26.65 Secretariat ran ---- Derby 159 2/5 Preakness 153.00 Belmont 224.00 So if they had run head to head Secretariat would not only won but American Pharoah would not have even placed in the Derby or the Preakness if he had run in 1973. Now don't get me wrong I think American Pharoah is one heck of a horse he is the best by far 3 year old this year. And I am happy that he is a new member in a vary small club of TC winners he deserves to be there. |
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Veteran
Posts: 289
Location: Where I need to be | This has probably already been said, but Secretariat is on AP's papers. Lots of good horses on AP's papers. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | I just asked my daddy if he thought horses are better now and that's why this year's field was closer bunched, or if he thought Big Red was just THAT much better-----he says BR was just that great a horse. I think I agree----what an athlete.
ETA I am an AP fan thru and thru----I take nothing away from him. I got chills watching him enter that rarified club of TC winners! What a great thing he and his connections did for racing that day.
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2015-06-09 9:14 PM
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Personally I think each horse is great in their own right. I mean, American Pharoah beat the largest Belmont Stakes field. And you don't know, if he had been put in a race with Secretariat, he may have upped his speed too. But I do believe that Secretariat was inded an uncommon horse, that is why no one else has been able to come close to his times. Does that mean other horses are bad? No, not at all, it just means they are different and came along at different times.
I love American Pharoah...he was one of the horses I had picked for the Kentucky Derby (I picked three), he's who I had pegged for the Preakness and thrilled when he came in through that mud bog, and I was ecstatic when he won the Belmont and the Triple Crown. Even though I couldn't watch the Belmont Stakes because I was at church I just had this feeling that he was going to win, that my friend was going to text me that he won, and he certainly did. American Pharoah has been the only horse (so far) during my lifetime to complete a Triple Crown, and I'm glad for him, his owners, and his trainers. And I always look forward to next year! |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | kwanatha - 2015-06-09 12:55 PM
run n rate - 2015-06-09 10:50 AM kwanatha - 2015-06-10 10:13 AM I would like to see an overlay! also of the whole field. it does look like to me that AP contended with a stronger field overall. I also wonder if that race was secretariats best because he had to wonder why the jockey was still riding him as the race was clearly over a long time ago LOL Maybe more horses but I can't say stronger field...I believe Sham's time in the Kentucky Derby is still the second fastest ever run, only other horse to run it under 2 minutes. Secretariat just took the heart right out of him, game little horse that was asked to chase down a legend, he gave his guts. I think it is safe to say it would be a great race either way. Secretariat ran that day for the shear fun of running, imagine what he would have done maybe with a horse to push him the entire way...
The only problem here is, in 1973 they didn't record times of non-winning horses... So Sham's time is an estimate. Being 2 1/2 lengths behind they figured 1:59 3/5 (.6) in the Derby. That comes out to be 1/5 second behind Big Red's win at 1:59 2/5 (.4) ...and Sham knocked out 2 teeth in the starting gate just before they ran.
But never forget... When Big Red won the Belmont and broke the old record... He didn't just shave it off... He smashed the old record by 2 3/5 seconds.
Edited by komet. 2015-06-10 2:17 PM
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | My biggest gripe about any of it....is that yes Secretariat was and is a legend.....but everybody seems to have forgotten that two more horses won the Triple Crown AFTER Secretariat....
Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Any horse that wins the TC is a legend.
On a side note....did nobody see Honor Code in the Met Life Mile? |
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 Saint Stacey
| Secretariat won those 3 races in a total of 5 weeks. AP had an extra week off between the Preakness and Belmont for a total of those 3 races in 6 weeks. That extra week is a HUGE advantage. AP is a great horse. But Secretariat was a spectacular horse. |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | missroselee - 2015-06-10 2:16 PM
My biggest gripe about any of it....is that yes Secretariat was and is a legend.....but everybody seems to have forgotten that two more horses won the Triple Crown AFTER Secretariat....
Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Any horse that wins the TC is a legend.
On a side note....did nobody see Honor Code in the Met Life Mile?
they didn't do it like secretariat did though. That is why everyone goes back to secretariat, not them. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | pinx05 - 2015-06-10 3:50 PM missroselee - 2015-06-10 2:16 PM My biggest gripe about any of it....is that yes Secretariat was and is a legend.....but everybody seems to have forgotten that two more horses won the Triple Crown AFTER Secretariat....
Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Any horse that wins the TC is a legend.
On a side note....did nobody see Honor Code in the Met Life Mile? they didn't do it like secretariat did though. That is why everyone goes back to secretariat, not them.
Yes but it doesn't really matter how it was done. Just the fact that it was done is legendary in itself......
Not to mention that although a great horse, Secretariat did NOT go on to be a great producer. His only claim to producing was the mares that produced great ones themselves. Seattle Slew and Affirmed went on to be great producers as well.
Secretariat was a freak, plain and simple.....and probably the likes that we will never see again. American Pharoah is a legend, like all the TC winners. Hopefully he produces as well.
Secretariat would have been a freak and a legend even if he had never won the triple crown. |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I think the Affirmed/Alydar rivalry of 1978 in the Triple Crown races deserves much more recognition than it receives. That was hands down one of the best years in racing. |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| SKM - 2015-06-10 3:31 PM
Secretariat won those 3 races in a total of 5 weeks. AP had an extra week off between the Preakness and Belmont for a total of those 3 races in 6 weeks. That extra week is a HUGE advantage. AP is a great horse. But Secretariat was a spectacular horse.
There have always been 3 weeks between the Preakness and Belmont. Secretariat had those 3 weeks too. May 19, 1973 (Preakness) to June 9, 1973 (Belmont).
ETA: There are two weeks between the Derby and Preakness.
Edited by Just Plain Lucky 2015-06-10 3:31 PM
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| missroselee - 2015-06-10 3:59 PM pinx05 - 2015-06-10 3:50 PM missroselee - 2015-06-10 2:16 PM My biggest gripe about any of it....is that yes Secretariat was and is a legend.....but everybody seems to have forgotten that two more horses won the Triple Crown AFTER Secretariat....
Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Any horse that wins the TC is a legend.
On a side note....did nobody see Honor Code in the Met Life Mile? they didn't do it like secretariat did though. That is why everyone goes back to secretariat, not them.
Not to mention that although a great horse, Secretariat did NOT go on to be a great producer. His only claim to producing was the mares that produced great ones themselves. Seattle Slew and Affirmed went on to be great producers as well.
Secretariat was a freak, plain and simple.....and probably the likes that we will never see again. American Pharoah is a legend, like all the TC winners. Hopefully he produces as well.
Secretariat would have been a freak and a legend even if he had never won the triple crown.
that is a fact i bred to mare to to first secratary the app son of his they were junk i had a cleft plalet colt we put down 3500.00 stud fee
a total waste in hindsight
he never produced but his grand daughters do
how many on him saw him run i did on tv totally fricking asewsome |
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Saint Stacey
| Just Plain Lucky - 2015-06-10 2:28 PM
SKM - 2015-06-10 3:31 PM
Secretariat won those 3 races in a total of 5 weeks. AP had an extra week off between the Preakness and Belmont for a total of those 3 races in 6 weeks. That extra week is a HUGE advantage. AP is a great horse. But Secretariat was a spectacular horse.
There have always been 3 weeks between the Preakness and Belmont. Secretariat had those 3 weeks too. May 19, 1973 (Preakness ) to June 9, 1973 (Belmont ).
ETA: There are two weeks between the Derby and Preakness.
I had read somewhere that Secretariat did it in 5 weeks. Guess you just can't trust everything you read on the internet, lol! I do feel sorry for Sham. He was a really great horse but had the misfortune of being in the same foaling year as Secretariat. |
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Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| SKM - 2015-06-10 4:45 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2015-06-10 2:28 PM SKM - 2015-06-10 3:31 PM Secretariat won those 3 races in a total of 5 weeks. AP had an extra week off between the Preakness and Belmont for a total of those 3 races in 6 weeks. That extra week is a HUGE advantage. AP is a great horse. But Secretariat was a spectacular horse. There have always been 3 weeks between the Preakness and Belmont. Secretariat had those 3 weeks too. May 19, 1973 (Preakness ) to June 9, 1973 (Belmont ). ETA: There are two weeks between the Derby and Preakness. I had read somewhere that Secretariat did it in 5 weeks. Guess you just can't trust everything you read on the internet, lol! I do feel sorry for Sham. He was a really great horse but had the misfortune of being in the same foaling year as Secretariat.
Big Red DID do it all in 5 weeks and so have all who came after him.
And yes, Sham was a great horse and maybe would have won the TC had he not been in the same crop as Secretariat. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | I saw him run his races as an 8 year old little girl and I still get chills re-watching the footage. I remember going to bed dreaming that one day I would ride a horse like Secretariat...none of us ever will, he is a one and only, what he had you can try to breed for but chances are you'll never reproduce. But it did give me a life long passion for big red horses with good foot speed and sheer joy of using it, have 3 with his name on their papers and named our tiny little horse operation such as it is 31 Lengths Farms. That race was EPIC, never to be repeated is my bet. AP is a great colt, no doubt about it and I hope that he is able to reproduce some of what he has...the world could use it!!! |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | It is 5 weeks either way you slice it. Kentucky Derby, two weeks later, Preakness, 3 weeks later Belmont...5 weeks. Only the brave and gutsy survive!!! I tip my hat to any of them that run all 3 races and continue to look thru a bridle for the remainder of their 3 year old year. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | TwistedK - 2015-06-10 3:06 PM
I think the Affirmed/Alydar rivalry of 1978 in the Triple Crown races deserves much more recognition than it receives. That was hands down one of the best years in racing.
I think we people that were young in the 70s got spoiled.... After all, we had 3 triple crown winners in a 5 year span.....
When Big Red won, it was a fluke that nobody thought could happen again...
When Affirmed won, it became a fluke that we had a 25 year gap between Citation (1948) and Secretariat (1973)...
Then it stopped happening for 37 years....
Edited by komet. 2015-06-10 4:00 PM
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | That is like 15-17 lengths difference isn't it? |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Douglas J Gordon - 2015-06-10 4:39 PM
That is like 15-17 lengths difference isn't it?
Well... They figured he went 2 1/2 lengths in 1/5 of a second... That's giving 12.5 lengths /second... So at that rate he could cover 32.5 lengths in 2 3/5 seconds. But this depends on how hard the horses is running.... Cruising speed or flat out.. |
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