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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
  
| Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:10 AM He is just cold backed and maybe now it appears he was sore so that may not have helped. She has had him a few years and only ran him 5 times each year at most. She is worried of liability. Today she is thinking euthanasia. I will share the messages I have received with her. Thanks for your input.
Sounds to me that she bought an expensive horse that sits around, runs a few times, and when he comes up sore, she can't figure it out. Then he stands around and does it all over again.
If she isn't riding him consistently, he's probably got more energy than he needs. He's also probably bored to tears. No 15,000 horse that I've met (unless it's a fancy bred colt) doesn't just not get rode. There's a reason he was 15K, unless someone really saw her coming.
Sell him to someone who has the time at a reduced price. She's obviously not making any money off of him standing in the pasture. |
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 Regular
Posts: 63
| I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM
I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.
From what I am reading... he needs maybe a more experienced hand or someone with more time. Neither of these comments are meant to insult your friend. A lot of us dont have the time to deal with a more needy type horse. It also sounds like the horse wasnt exactly treated fairly (being sold with false pretenses), if he is green but sold as a 15k horse, hes probably had high expectations.
If it were me, I would sell the horse with full disclosure. Then she has some protection and be picky on who you sell him to. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.
I bet hes not a POS horse, just sounds like they dont mix {the rider and horse} And if hes cold back he sure dont need to be stalled up. If he was green when she bought him I'm betting he needed someone what would have finished him out. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.
I understand horses can act out because they are hurting but honestly, I agree with you he is probably a POS. I can't stand a horse to try and hurt me because they are sore. It doesn't sound like your friend is abusive to this horse yet he is willing to hurt her and that to me is a POS. I would give him away with full disclosure, if he ends up on a truck to Mexico then that would be sad but worse things have happened to better horses. Sorry she got screwed around. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | I have typed several different responses and deleted them and probably shouldn't respond but I am anyway. I really get that there are actual POS's out there, however I do not think working/riding a sore horse that responds negatively to pain is a POS. You can not tell the level of their pain. Try going out and running a marathon with a sprained ankle or broken leg and then tell me you won't act like a POS. Expecting an animal to not re-act negatively to pain is not realistic. Sounds like your friend needs to get rid of this horse and find something more suitable for her. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Zebra racer - 2015-07-07 4:22 PM
I have a friend who bought a $15k horse with a multitude of undisclosed health issues from a prominent barrel racer in her area. She did have a vet check but that is another story.
He bucks when he is fresh so he hasn't been any fun for her. She has tried to address his physical problems to give him a chance but now he has a soft tissue injury that isn't healing. Her plan was to get him sound and sell him as a bucker. With the soundness I don't think she can even sell him as anything. The vet said it could be 60 more days or a year. She has already had him up on stall rest for 60 days and no improvement. He is a colored up well bred horse but might as well be grade. He is not visibly lame to the average human. Should she try and give him away in hopes someone will give him a chance? Or take him to the killer sale and have no liability? What would you do? She is done.
Tell me where she is and I'll trade her outta that sucker!
I've made good money getting these horses and vetting them up because some owner didn't have the patience or the knowledge to do so. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Did she buy this horse knowing he was green? |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Hold up.....who the heck spends $15,000 on a green horse? I hope that horse is bred out of this world because I sure as heck wouldn't buy a green horse for that much! |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down. Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 1:15 PM
This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down. Â Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done.Â
I admire you for what you did for your horse. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 11:15 AM This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down. Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done.
It is POSSIBLE to bandaid a horse and bully him through the pattern and make him look good. but it only lasts for so long before they completely break down. The "smart" ones dump them onto someone else before it becomes too obvious and then blame the new owner when they aren't willing to patch and bully them into a good run. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:15 PM
This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down. Â Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done.Â
In the past two years we've had clients buy 20k plus horses that had quirks or they would have been higher.
Those quirks were caused by lameness problems that once the hammer was dropped on them really started to come out. They used local vets, never finding the problem, not having patience, not believing vets, not listening to ppl, etc...Long story short they wanted out of their horses. We ended up buying both and vetting them and giving turn out for a year. Sold both for a price profit. Time and vetting does wonders...
Next example...Not directing it at your situation but had ppl that refused to thoroughly vet a nice horse because they say "she's just not trying" or "she's green" and "she keeps hurting herself"....they lost 15K on the horse and we've ended up getting her to sale for the current owner. Current owner vetted and gave time (like we advised originally!!) and this is a nice mare now that has clocked with the big dogs at AAY and Perry.
Working with a good team of vets, be prepared to spend money like it doesn't matter, and have patience... |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | ampratt - 2015-07-08 1:25 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 1:15 PM This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down. Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. I admire you for what you did for your horse.
I didn't mean to come across as trite as that sounded when I read it just now...and I do realize that some people don't think that they have that option due to land issues, etc. Since we are on the subject, I'd like to let people know that there are many Universities in the U.S. that will handle euthanasia, necropsy, cremation, and other services if you don't have land to dispose of a horse's body. As a "donation" many times these are tax detuctable and the fees are very reasonable. When you consider it as the last vet bill that you will pay for this animal that you cared enough about to purchase, it's not much. (This ensures that your horse won't end up on a kill truck headed to Mexico....or "saved" by some bleeding heart on FB that will only put them in a much worse situation.)
http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/veterinary-medical-schools.php |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 1:32 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:15 PM This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down. Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. In the past two years we've had clients buy 20k plus horses that had quirks or they would have been higher. Those quirks were caused by lameness problems that once the hammer was dropped on them really started to come out. They used local vets, never finding the problem, not having patience, not believing vets, not listening to ppl, etc...Long story short they wanted out of their horses. We ended up buying both and vetting them and giving turn out for a year. Sold both for a price profit. Time and vetting does wonders... Next example...Not directing it at your situation but had ppl that refused to thoroughly vet a nice horse because they say "she's just not trying" or "she's green" and "she keeps hurting herself"....they lost 15K on the horse and we've ended up getting her to sale for the current owner. Current owner vetted and gave time (like we advised originally!! ) and this is a nice mare now that has clocked with the big dogs at AAY and Perry. Working with a good team of vets, be prepared to spend money like it doesn't matter, and have patience...
I've fixed a few myself and thought that I had the one that I mentioned fixed several times...but, everytime he came apart it was worse. My choice was based on the fact that he could fool you into thinking things were great...and then when they weren't he was ultimately dangerous. I absolutely could have patched him up and sold him for plenty, but I couldn't stand the thought of him hurting someone who just didn't know any better.
Once the necropsy was done, much of his behavior in his last couple of years was explained...and honestly as sick as I was reading the report, I was incredibly relieved that to learn that I had done the right thing in retiring him. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:46 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 1:32 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:15 PM This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down.  Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. In the past two years we've had clients buy 20k plus horses that had quirks or they would have been higher. Those quirks were caused by lameness problems that once the hammer was dropped on them really started to come out. They used local vets, never finding the problem, not having patience, not believing vets, not listening to ppl, etc...Long story short they wanted out of their horses. We ended up buying both and vetting them and giving turn out for a year. Sold both for a price profit. Time and vetting does wonders... Next example...Not directing it at your situation but had ppl that refused to thoroughly vet a nice horse because they say "she's just not trying" or "she's green" and "she keeps hurting herself"....they lost 15K on the horse and we've ended up getting her to sale for the current owner. Current owner vetted and gave time (like we advised originally!! ) and this is a nice mare now that has clocked with the big dogs at AAY and Perry. Working with a good team of vets, be prepared to spend money like it doesn't matter, and have patience...
Once the necropsy was done, much of his behavior in his last couple of years was explained...and honestly as sick as I was reading the report, I was incredibly relieved that to learn that I had done the right thing in retiring him. Â
Quick patching only makes horses worse correct! Fix problems and manage them!
Sounds like you did right by him. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 151
| Barnmom - 2015-07-08 10:55 AM
Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.
I understand horses can act out because they are hurting but honestly, I agree with you he is probably a POS. I can't stand a horse to try and hurt me because they are sore. It doesn't sound like your friend is abusive to this horse yet he is willing to hurt her and that to me is a POS. I would give him away with full disclosure, if he ends up on a truck to Mexico then that would be sad but worse things have happened to better horses. Sorry she got screwed around.
I agree with this! I am in similar situation with a lying seller and one (of the many) vets we have been to said, "there are a lot of ways a horse can show you he's in pain, bucking you off should not be one of them".
I am in over 10K of vets bills so far, with only minor diagnoses. All three vets have said he's fine, he's just a POS (in their own words).
But unfortunately, the husband is not ok ditching the very expensive horse, so I am stuck with him.
Keep us posted! |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 1:46 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 1:32 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:15 PM This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down.  Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. In the past two years we've had clients buy 20k plus horses that had quirks or they would have been higher. Those quirks were caused by lameness problems that once the hammer was dropped on them really started to come out. They used local vets, never finding the problem, not having patience, not believing vets, not listening to ppl, etc...Long story short they wanted out of their horses. We ended up buying both and vetting them and giving turn out for a year. Sold both for a price profit. Time and vetting does wonders... Next example...Not directing it at your situation but had ppl that refused to thoroughly vet a nice horse because they say "she's just not trying" or "she's green" and "she keeps hurting herself"....they lost 15K on the horse and we've ended up getting her to sale for the current owner. Current owner vetted and gave time (like we advised originally!! ) and this is a nice mare now that has clocked with the big dogs at AAY and Perry. Working with a good team of vets, be prepared to spend money like it doesn't matter, and have patience...
Once the necropsy was done, much of his behavior in his last couple of years was explained...and honestly as sick as I was reading the report, I was incredibly relieved that to learn that I had done the right thing in retiring him. Â
My comment wasnt intended to say "cowgirl" him but sometimes horses do need to be ridden close to everyday if not everyday... a lot of times they grow out of it with age and/or experience. Eventually you dont need to ride them EVERY day but some you do in the beginning. Maybe a different style rider would be better? Maybe not. None of us know the particulars on this horse.
I know a gal, great lady, good rider but her horse has her number. He bucks randomly and messes with her. She asked for help, the horses didnt put a foot out of place the whole time, I was challenging him and asking him too basically but he was a perfect gentleman. She's spend thousands trying to find where hes in pain assuming thats related to him bucking. I think hes just got her number and has gotten away with the shenanigans. Ive seen similar situations two other times also. Now I dont know this is the case for this horse but just an opinion on a possibility. I also dont agree these are good shananigans/qualities to have in a horse but dont necessarily think its euthanasia quality either.
Fully disclose his issues, have it in writing and get rid of him. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I don't have any helpful info, but this thread was interesting to read. I had a mare that got hurt and after 2 years of vet bills and time off I could never get her to stay sound. I sold her for $500 to a girl who wanted to spend some more with the vet and see if she could get her going again (horse was an absolute POWERHOUSE and had no vices like bucking or anything). Her backup plan was to use her as a brood mare bc she absolutely loved her bloodlines. Now I'm going through a similar situation with a family member. Her horse is ear shy but is the most fantastic, solid barrel horse in the world. I've never met a horse that LOVES their job so much. BUT he's been battling a hind leg injury that the vet can't really find and the one who holds the purse strings believes vets are con artists and that she should just "bute him and sell him". He has said he's going to auction if he can't get rid of him and it breaks my heart, but I certainly don't want the horse and can't afford another anyway. It just sucks. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | If it was me I would advertise him with all his positive and negative qualities and see if someone is willing to chance him. I'm not bashing the vet but sometimes a new or different vet or trainer can quickly find a small problem that makes a huge difference.
I've had horses show up that were dangerous at the gate, that needed 10 people to bully in, and had to be ripped around the pattern. The horse would smoke everyone but it was the most horrible experience for him. I bought one because no one would and the change of rider made all the difference. I had a quiet horse that actually loved his job and went on to be an awesome kids barrel horse.
If the horse has dumped your friend more then once no matter how hard she tries she's going to be scared of him and he will know that (and there is no shame in admitting it). In those cases it's better to part ways and see how he makes out with someone else.
You sound very honest so advertise him and see what happens. Someone may just come along and love him to bits and discover what his issue is or just love on him as a trail horse.
On a side note has he had his teeth checked by a good dentist. I know it sounds funny but over the years I've come across some horses with the most horrendous teeth that it would make any horse insane. Just food for thought!
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